![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 88 to 112 of 308. Go back in thread:
Posted by PartlyCloudy on July 14, 2010, at 6:49:29
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobehere effect' » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on July 13, 2010, at 19:16:10
> we've witnessed a lotta backpedaling over the years, no wonder you are so reticent! (sorry NYT, but this behavior may completely discount the possibility of brilliance).
>
> [insert required smiley face here]I'm telling you, it's a vanishing skill outside the world of politics.
Posted by sigismund on July 14, 2010, at 18:01:43
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobehere effect' » BayLeaf, posted by PartlyCloudy on July 14, 2010, at 6:49:29
>it's a vanishing skill outside the world of politics
Wrecking things is so much simpler than fixing them.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 15, 2010, at 10:08:59
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobehere effect' » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 13, 2010, at 12:21:55
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
In reply to Re:Posters Posts and Point system » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 8:37:49
> > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
>
> NO.
>
> Are you really considering this?Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
Bob
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 15:22:18
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
> > > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
> >
> > NO.
> >
> > Are you really considering this?
>
> Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
>
> BobI have to say, I'm a little stunned. Posting because I want to help someone when I can is positive reinforcement enough.
When I start a thread, sometimes people post alot, sometimes people are sick of posting about the same thing over and over, but they post. I would never think of rating a persons post.
Most threads offer not one best answer, but many different answers, from different perspectives. I enjoy, also, the occasional spontanious post thats just funny. It might be the funniest thing I hear all day.
Do we really want to rate for highest points, when its the "collective post" that offers the best answer? I won't be in competition with fellow babblers. But maybe thats the "point". You'll certainly weed out the posters who are less knowledgeable.
Are you trying to rebuild babble into a site where all the "stuff" is gone, and its more of a quick go to place for the most intelligent answers and facts?
Like I said, its your site, and I respect that. However, I strongly disagree that a point system, or any kind of rating system, will help babble become a better place. I think you will lose many posters, and not because we live in "lake Wobehere", but because this is not a competition. I think I offer enough posts that are helpful to feel like a valuable member. Not the most knowledgeable, by far, but I'm okay with that.
I hope you give this a lot of thought and listen to whatever feedback you get before you take this step.
Thank you for listening (I hope).
~Jade
btw-"positive reinforcement"??? What are we now to you, Pavlov's dogs?
Posted by ron1953 on July 17, 2010, at 15:28:42
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
> > > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
> >
> > NO.
> >
> > Are you really considering this?
>
> Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
>
> BobWoof!
BTW, I think it's a silly idea.
Posted by vwoolf on July 17, 2010, at 16:00:12
In reply to Re: Point system » Dr. Bob, posted by ron1953 on July 17, 2010, at 15:28:42
I think the concept of points is quite offensive to the seriousness of the posters and the pain they are trying to deal with by coming here.
I remember many times in the past when I posted I was deep despair and had nowhere else to go with my distress. Fortunately at the time there were (and still are today) people here, and on the Samaritans, who were prepared to listen and respond as one human being to another. I can't even begin to imagine how awful it would have been to discover that they were doing it out of some competitive need for 'points' or e-bucks or other power trip. And what a loss for them in their humanity if they were. Dr Bob, I hope you will drop this ill-conceived idea very quickly. It goes against the whole logic and ethos of a site of this kind.
Posted by 10derHeart on July 17, 2010, at 16:11:43
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by vwoolf on July 17, 2010, at 16:00:12
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2010, at 16:39:34
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming... » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 15:22:18
> Do we really want to rate for highest points, when its the "collective post" that offers the best answer? I won't be in competition with fellow babblers. But maybe thats the "point". You'll certainly weed out the posters who are less knowledgeable.
This is the only purpose I can see. And it would disappoint me very much as it seems opposite the point of view Dr. Bob has had in the past when he encouraged posters to, for example, greet newcomers.
I would be less likely to post with this system. But a different type of poster might be more likely to post. Maybe Dr. Bob would like to change the type of posters Babble attracts.
Posted by violette on July 17, 2010, at 17:34:17
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by vwoolf on July 17, 2010, at 16:00:12
I think it was nice of Deneb to think of ways to improve the site, and it was a creative idea. People thought it through and those who considered this idea saw the drawbacks and expressed their opinions that overall, people do not think such a system will benefit the community.
VWoolf described the effect of a point system for a mental health support site very nicely...and I agree though I don't care so much about how a point system would personally effect me. VW's post was eloquent; it really resonated with me and led me to think it is one which I think Dr. Bob should especially take note of.
It seems sometimes, Dr. Bob, what you think may be helpful for posters doesn't match up with what posters tell you feels beneficial to us. I think most of us realize (by now I hope) you can't make everyone happy, but at the same time, when you get strong, adverse opinions for feedback, it might be important to more strongly weigh the opinions of the members who actually use the forum over your own opinions?
You can 'attract' more people here by incentives and marketing such as Facebook and Twitter...and filtering the posts to a dozen other sites...but it's kinda like sales-where the customer is incentivized to buy the product-then later realizes they should have made a different choice and regrets their decision when things turn out to be not so desirable...
Like when you buy that dishwasher from that appliance store-you take it home, it's broke. You can't fix it yourself, your stuck with it-while the retail dealer argues you 'should have' bought the warranty if you expected (the brand new appliance) to be fixed. (This is not uncommon, btw.)
I am not inclined to post here much anymore due to several reasons. Not being able to edit or delete posts concerns me, such as what I may write during times of mental distress. I saw others thought there are some drawbacks to this, very valid concerns such as being bullied or 'looking' ridiculous when others' delete information. At least you are here to address those concerns in the unlikeliness it would happen, and at least someone could delete their own post if others deletions somehow made them feel uncomfortable...So that's a feature that drives me away, as it makes more sense to allow that feature on a forum where people discuss sensitive topics, some in vulnerable mental states. The benefits of this feature greatly outweigh the risks, imo.
Some of the aspects of this forum led me to find another place that is much safer and where I'm comfortable with the moderation...It turns out I fit in much better with the community as it is more therapy minded as a whole. But I probably would not have sought out another forum if I was happy with this one.
I'm not concerned if no one misses my posting here since I don't feel I fit in well anyway, but wanted to let you know the reasons why I am not inclined to post here much anymore-FWIW. I check in here out of habit still, but partly from OCD anxiety which is slowly disappearing, but sorta lingering. I've already been welcomed and have developed a relationship with others who I found to be extremely supportive on another forum, so I probably will just slowly disappear from here, as many others seem to do...
As I mentioned before, you could always do polls such as survey monkey to see what features members prefer here-and publiclly post the results for discussion.
I noticed that recently you did try to make some (more subtle) improvements...there's still much room for growth, however. So good luck with the forum...there's alot of potential here. :)
Posted by fayeroe on July 17, 2010, at 17:35:39
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobeher effect', posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:29:47
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 17:38:17
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
Dr. Bob,
Why did you redirect my thread, and change my title? Do we really need to connect this to a tired thread that was dead and buried? This thread was about your lake analogy. Its old. In addition, this officially now falls under Denebs thread again. Now why on earth would you do that? Really. I don't get it.
Posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 17:42:16
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by Dinah on July 17, 2010, at 16:39:34
I think Dr. Bob just want to reward everyone for posting, not just the "good" replies. That's what I had in mind.
I think people would post regardless if you get points or not. Getting points would just be a bonus reward, so you feel good about helping others out and you have tangible proof of your helpfulness. You can look at all the points you have and think, wow, I've helped a lot of people! Then you feel good about yourself.
I wouldn't think of it as competition. For me it would just be about competing against myself, trying to help out more people than I did last week or something.
I dunno, that's how I see it. I'm sure Dr. Bob doesn't want to discourage people from posting.
Seems like lots of Babblers don't like my idea though, so I won't be disappointed if Dr. Bob decides not to do this.
I guess ideally this points system would make people feel good about their contributions, but maybe Babblers will think in a negative way, negating the positives of this system, in which case, this wouldn't be helpful.
Maybe Babblers will have to learn to think more positively before something like this will work.
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 17:47:34
In reply to Re: Redirect point thread » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 17:38:17
You know what, when you start moving posts around, changing titles, etc. I know the discussion is over (for me) I don't think you give a rats *** what most of us think. Maybe no one else caught that, but it was a dirty trick.
C ya~Jade
Posted by sigismund on July 17, 2010, at 18:26:23
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
>Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
Posters are rewarded to some extent for being helpful through the responses they get back.
I think having a rating system is cruel I guess.
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 18:28:30
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 17:42:16
Hi Deneb,
>Babblers will think in a negative way, negating the positives of this system, in which case, this wouldn't be helpful.
>Maybe Babblers will have to learn to think more positively before something like this will work.
Please, please don't get caught up in this idea that because we don't want any kind of rating system, we are negative people and don't like ourselves.
Its the opposite. I'm happy with my posts. I'm happy with other people's posts. I like it that they post to me cause they want to, not so they can win a "Bobble Head" when they accrue enough points.
I think your great, regardless of Dr. Bob's decision.
Hey Dr. Bob??? My double double quotes didn't work.~Jade
Posted by ron1953 on July 17, 2010, at 20:44:52
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming... » Deneb, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 18:28:30
Let's rate Bob.......
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 20:49:39
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by ron1953 on July 17, 2010, at 20:44:52
Scale of one to 10?
Quality
Length
Accuracy
Difficulty
etc.
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 21:00:58
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by ron1953 on July 17, 2010, at 20:44:52
I vote we use the block formula for a low score. Cause that's whats next in line for us.
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2010, at 21:09:07
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 17:42:16
> I guess ideally this points system would make people feel good about their contributions, but maybe Babblers will think in a negative way, negating the positives of this system, in which case, this wouldn't be helpful.
>
> Maybe Babblers will have to learn to think more positively before something like this will work.You know, I am not really all that negative about my posts, and I don't like this system.
I don't think the blame belongs to babblers. I don't think someone has to be overly negative to not like having a low rating, or even to feel bad about having a higher rating.
It seems to me that you've just posted recently about feeling bad that other posters might have more interaction with Dr. Bob than you have. Don't you think it's possible that other posters who are more concerned with their peers than with Dr. Bob might feel bad if they aren't as highly regarded, as highly ranked, as their fellows?
If you consider it as a similar experience to what you feel with Dr. Bob, do you still see it as a function of the negativity of posters? Or is it possible to see it as the understandable desire of people to not have their worth quantified and compared with others? On any side of the equation?
I understand that you mean well, and I also understand that what you posted was a paraphrase of what Dr. Bob said.
But I personally would give a completely different description of how Babblers would have to change to like this idea.
Posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 22:17:37
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming... » Deneb, posted by Dinah on July 17, 2010, at 21:09:07
I didn't think it through when I suggested it. Everyone is saying it is a bad idea and I can see how it can be a bad idea now. Can you please just forget about the ratings idea. I'd feel so bad if you implemented this and everyone gets angry or upset and leaves! It'd be all my fault!
Posted by obsidian on July 17, 2010, at 22:26:54
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
it sounds awful and pavlovian and cold
gotta say, I just don't like it
-sid
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2010, at 22:27:29
In reply to Dr. Bob, can you forget about the ratings idea?, posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 22:17:37
It wouldn't be your fault.
It's a *good* thing to bring up ideas.
Dr. Bob is the administrator. The choices he makes are his responsibility, not yours.
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 22:39:29
In reply to Dr. Bob, can you forget about the ratings idea?, posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 22:17:37
> I didn't think it through when I suggested it. Everyone is saying it is a bad idea and I can see how it can be a bad idea now. Can you please just forget about the ratings idea. I'd feel so bad if you implemented this and everyone gets angry or upset and leaves! It'd be all my fault!
Deneb,Bob may have been thinking about this before you brought it up. And even if he wasn't, you are not to blame for anything!! Anyone could have thrown an idea out there, and we do, but this is his responsibility from here on out. NO ONE is going to be upset with you either way!
Already you have seen this is not what babblers want and have asked that it not be implemented. How could you know what the reaction would be? Its his deal now Deneb. Don't you dare go blaming yourself.
Okay? You've done nothing wrong.
~Jade :-)
Posted by SLS on July 18, 2010, at 6:40:44
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
> > > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
> >
> > NO.
> >
> > Are you really considering this?
>
> Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
>
> Bob
This could be the worst idea yet. It is forcing an alternative motivation to post outside the purview of altruism. What do you suppose is the current motivation to post?What would be your criteria for assigning a reward? Should Linkadge earn more reward points than Deneb?
You really seem to like this idea. My guess is that you will make it will happen. Speaking for only one poster - me - I would be less inclined to post if I were forced to be compared to others in the "quality" of my posts. I find that having my posts rated - having *me* rated - in front of the whole world to see is inhibitory rather than encouraging.
I can't be sure, of course, but I think there will be a disincentive to post if competition is to be part of the terms of service.
I think it is as much a show of character to reject one's own ideas as it is to accept those of another. I have never seen you yield on one of your ideas.
- Scott
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.