Psycho-Babble Social Thread 220134

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Re: Win without War (very long) » lil' jimi

Posted by fayeroe on April 17, 2003, at 17:48:57

In reply to Win without War (very long), posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 16:07:50

rave on, lil jimi, rave on! we can be patriots for peace without ever picking up a weapon and we can criticize our elected officials whenever we want. this is America! and over at the Other site, if the Dixie Chicks want to dance on May Day....as one of the moderators+++i say "come on down, Dixie Chicks!".........i support anyone's right to speak out! peace, pat

 

Re: Win without War (very long)

Posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 17:54:35

In reply to Win without War (very long), posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 16:07:50

remember tim in "arlington road"..
"terrorism, pretty frightening topic"..that movie should stay in our minds forever...its not what it seems..never has been..history is written by one view..how will our kids kids read about"shock and awe"..?
tim .he is one of my favourites..
remember him in "jacobs ladder"...too cool
in true peace
j

 

Re: Win without War

Posted by white rabbit on April 17, 2003, at 19:00:55

In reply to Win without War (very long), posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 16:07:50

What I want to know is: how come we care so much about what "celebrities" think? Who gives a damn what they think? Imagine the world being run by a deep thinker like Anna Nicole Smith (shudder).

While I have nothing against Tim, and would value his opinion on, say, acting or film producing, his opinion on Iraq is no more important that yours or mine. Damn skippy.

It's shameful that the rich and famous are so respected while the traditional system of honoring one's elders (like myself) for their wisdom and experience has been abandoned.
-Gracie
P.S. What month is this?

 

Re: tim robbins and jyl

Posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 19:18:55

In reply to Re: Win without War (very long), posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 17:54:35

> remember tim in "arlington road"..
> "terrorism, pretty frightening topic"..that movie should stay in our minds forever...its not what it seems..never has been..history is written by one view..how will our kids kids read about"shock and awe"..?
> tim .he is one of my favourites..
> remember him in "jacobs ladder"...too cool
> in true peace
> j

jyl,
you know tim robbins' work much better than i do ... "bob roberts" is the only one i recall ... i work in an audio visual library so i can search the collection and see what we have of his ... "arlington road" and "jacob's ladder" are now at the top of my list... thanks for the future viewing suggestions ... for an actor, robbins is extraordinarily wise ...
.... thank you! .... for your reply
.... and your laugh ...
true peace to you too,
~ j

p.s. may i be your fan ?

 

I REALLY liked the other guy in Bull Durham! (nm) » lil' jimi

Posted by jane d on April 17, 2003, at 19:20:49

In reply to Win without War (very long), posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 16:07:50

 

Re: Win without War » white rabbit

Posted by fayeroe on April 17, 2003, at 19:32:17

In reply to Re: Win without War , posted by white rabbit on April 17, 2003, at 19:00:55

i think that the speech was posted because it represents an example of how divided our country is on the war and this was a who is highly visible. he has the right to his opinion just as much as i have the right to mine.
i didn't see where jim said that he valued his opinion because he was a celebrity. i valued one of your posts about your pakistani psychiatrist because i thought it was funny. and i don't know if you are a celebrity or not. but i have that right to form my own opinion of what i value. respectfully, pat

 

Re: Win without War » white rabbit

Posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 19:50:04

In reply to Re: Win without War , posted by white rabbit on April 17, 2003, at 19:00:55

> What I want to know is: how come we care so much about what "celebrities" think? Who gives a damn what they think? Imagine the world being run by a deep thinker like Anna Nicole Smith (shudder).
>
> While I have nothing against Tim, and would value his opinion on, say, acting or film producing, his opinion on Iraq is no more important that yours or mine. Damn skippy.
>
> It's shameful that the rich and famous are so respected while the traditional system of honoring one's elders (like myself) for their wisdom and experience has been abandoned.
> -Gracie
> P.S. What month is this?

hi gracie,

i have to agree that if any folks are (and some apparently are) given respect just because they are celebrities or rich or famous, that that is a bad thing ... always. ... the list of those with fame, celebrity and wealth, But No clue is too long to begin here....

And while i do honor my elders (such as yourself) for their wisdom and experience ..... i do Not believe that i should confer respect to those who are old and experienced Just because they may happen to be my elders.

in both cases, without regard for for age or wealth or fame or experience, i expect my respect to be earned .... and the price i'm charging is **wisdom**.

mister robbins, by the words he has offered us, has earned my respect with his wisdom .... which is, as you have suggested, the standard for respect ... and IMHO, mr. robbins just happens to be surpringly wise, especially for a rich and famous celebrity.

peace and wisdom,
~ jim

p.s. mmmmmmmmm, april?

 

Re: Politics again » fayeroe

Posted by jane d on April 17, 2003, at 19:54:02

In reply to Re: Win without War (very long) » lil' jimi, posted by fayeroe on April 17, 2003, at 17:48:57

> rave on, lil jimi, rave on! we can be patriots for peace without ever picking up a weapon and we can criticize our elected officials whenever we want. this is America! and over at the Other site, if the Dixie Chicks want to dance on May Day....as one of the moderators+++i say "come on down, Dixie Chicks!".........i support anyone's right to speak out! peace, pat

Pat,

Just because you can speak out doesn't mean that there aren't places where you should restrain yourself. I think that this board is one of those places. What I get from this board is not support for my politics, or the fun of a good fight, but a chance to share experiences with people who understand the "other" part of my life. The one I can't talk about when I'm talking about politics with friends. A place where I wouldn't be shunned for commenting on the strange feeling of listening to terrorism warnings and being unable to care because .... hey, not living seems like a good idea, or just because caring is too much work that day. Or not being afraid because nothing is as frightening to me as realizing I can't rely on myself.

This isn't really about the philosophy of having people with as many different views as possible represented though I do believe in that. It's simple pragmatism. Even here, where I've had more of what someone called "aha" moments then anywhere else there are far too few posts where I realize someone has had my exact experience with a job, or socially, or with their dishes, and if we drive from the board all those posters with one kind of politics or even all those posters who don't feel very strongly about politics (or do) then the chances of my finding more "aha" posts to read go way down.

I admit that I might feel differently if it was politics I had no chance to discuss in my everyday life but I think you've provided a solution for that by making politics a welcome subject on the other board.

Jane
PS. Thank you for providing the link to your board again on Admin.

 

Re: O, honored elder -

Posted by jane d on April 17, 2003, at 19:56:05

In reply to Re: Win without War , posted by white rabbit on April 17, 2003, at 19:00:55

See. The board is honoring you. You just don't recognize your own forcefulness. :-)

 

TYVM! and You Rave On, Too! (nm) » fayeroe

Posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 19:56:55

In reply to Re: Win without War (very long) » lil' jimi, posted by fayeroe on April 17, 2003, at 17:48:57

 

Re: what celebrities think » white rabbit

Posted by jane d on April 17, 2003, at 20:08:49

In reply to Re: Win without War , posted by white rabbit on April 17, 2003, at 19:00:55

> What I want to know is: how come we care so much about what "celebrities" think? Who gives a damn what they think? Imagine the world being run by a deep thinker like Anna Nicole Smith (shudder).

WR,

I agree. Those weren't exactly deep thoughts in that speech. Still, it bothers me that he had appearances cancelled because of his opinions. I wonder if that is how he ended up speaking to the National Press Club. Was inviting him an editorial comment on the other censorship in which case it's great or did they just see a chance to get a celebrity in? The attempted boycott of the Dixie Chicks bothered me to. Hey, I LIKE the Dixie Chicks! How could you not like them after "Goodbye, Earl"?

Jane
P.S. Does the name "Dixie Chicks" make anybody else cringe?

 

Re war and meall

Posted by lostsailor on April 17, 2003, at 20:11:11

In reply to Win without War (very long), posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 16:07:50

I read some here and there. I am so mixed up but well informed on all this, so I don't want anyone to think I don't care or am not concerned.

I will say that usually I swing to the moderately far left politically, but do not just vote party only. If an R is doing something I think will work, I'll pull the switch ect….

I support our troops.... I am lost.

Crimson, white and indigo seem, for now, surreal colors. Yet while running, cycling I find a prayer in heart or a brief salute in "necessary”

"Living" in Canada on and off may have helped with this a bit, as is the mass marketing of the colors. Did Betsy Rose and Francis Scott Key have all this in mind??

I am lost...

In peace, ~tony

 

Re: Win without War. gracie » white rabbit

Posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 20:31:33

In reply to Re: Win without War , posted by white rabbit on April 17, 2003, at 19:00:55

gracie,
i think you can see why people can be so biggoted..
i love what "tim"stands for but would listen and respect your view more because i know you better?
does that make heads or tail?
some peoples worlds are smaller..out spoken people can project ones desires..?
ramble ramble..
my heroes are not "movie stars"mine are "my stars"
like my mom..
peace
j

 

i hear you loud... » lostsailor

Posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 20:49:02

In reply to Re war and meall, posted by lostsailor on April 17, 2003, at 20:11:11

tony..
i can soo relate.."r" will do what "r"thinks will get votes..
if "r"is liberal and the masses need social programs(unemployment,,welfare).."r"will be in control..
if "r"is ,,,,,anything else,,and the masses are all above that poverty line,,its tax breaks for all,,
does it really matter what we call them(their dx)
no..where is the majority..the money..what can we say to get the vote...
peace
j

 

what chickies think.. » jane d

Posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 20:57:00

In reply to Re: what celebrities think » white rabbit, posted by jane d on April 17, 2003, at 20:08:49

i agree,,
but(always a but or i wouldnt reply)
if i stood up at my kids science fair at school and proclaimed"down with war..or nixon..or anything else .."
wouldnt people say"what a freak..dont ask her to speak at the graduation.."some will say..or think.."wow,,i agree..good for you..its on our minds..and you have the right to adress it..because i wasnt asked to speak....."
..
peace
j

 

Re: Politics again

Posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 21:35:57

In reply to Re: Politics again » fayeroe, posted by jane d on April 17, 2003, at 19:54:02

hummm,,
i think any place ,any forum,any medium,is the time and the place to be expressive..
oh no johnny ,dont talk about racial differences,this is a white school..
oh no johnny, you cant sing that song about jewish families here,,this is not the place to be yourself..and a jew.
oh no johnny,you cant tell the world you are gay at the podium,,too policical
johnny shut up..you are only good at acting..
you have a beautiful voice but stop singing about war,what is it good for.....
j

 

Re: Win without War » fayeroe

Posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 21:49:35

In reply to Re: Win without War » white rabbit, posted by fayeroe on April 17, 2003, at 19:32:17

thats the point faye..
just that he is popular,,does not mean he has to shut-up..
he can stand tall on his beliefs..
as you can..declaring your voice in your kitchen..
lets be ourselves..
"lets not judge the voices of the night..."
or the world would be silent
j

 

Re: Re war and meall » lostsailor

Posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 21:55:24

In reply to Re war and meall, posted by lostsailor on April 17, 2003, at 20:11:11

> I read some here and there. I am so mixed up but well informed on all this, so I don't want anyone to think I don't care or am not concerned.
>
> I will say that usually I swing to the moderately far left politically, but do not just vote party only. If an R is doing something I think will work, I'll pull the switch ect….
>
> I support our troops.... I am lost.
>
> Crimson, white and indigo seem, for now, surreal colors. Yet while running, cycling I find a prayer in heart or a brief salute in "necessary”
>
> "Living" in Canada on and off may have helped with this a bit, as is the mass marketing of the colors. Did Betsy Rose and Francis Scott Key have all this in mind??
>
> I am lost...
>
> In peace, ~tony

hi tone-man,

thanks for your post . ... great to have you reply here.

these kind of issues can cause stress, so i wouldn't want to get anybody's neurotransmitters all wadded up into bunches or anything ... these are heavy issues .... it takes a certain kind of strenght to raise them ...and they bring a certain kind of tension of their own ... their expression can foster more stressin' ... and sometimes the strain may make us get focused on the style or tone or colors ... which isn't a bad thing if it's not hurtful ... there is more than one way to see our current events ... . and those varieties of view can create a challenge ... to our heads... to our hearts .... to our spirits ... and we may Or may not be well for those challenges.

i wouldn't want to offend anyone who was not able or willing to consider the alternatives and options and various world views which may not be to their taste(s) or liking.. .... but would not they be able to Not have to read this particular thread? ... does that kind of concern compell one to have to be silent?

it is when i think that one view is being surpressed that, i feel, a disservice is being done to our prespective on the issues ..... and i feel there are those who would be happier if they could hear only one voice ... as long as they may choose that voice.... i think we can see where that might be comfortable,... But, i think, we can see where that can cause a bigger problem, .. ..bigger problems.

i support our troops... i have a friend in the combat zone ... my dad and brother were both career air force officers ... i revere our military ... and i love our country ... all of which motivates my need, my urge to broach these issues.

is this not the place where we are allowed to consider and discuss the social, ethical, moral, civil, aesthetic .... and politcal aspects of human experience ? Is one of these so much more challenging than the others that we may not speak of it .... at all ..... least we dare offend?

we are challenged to be civil here.... may we discuss whether or not i have been civil by bringing up politics as a subject for consideration? .... and is politics even the issue mr. robbins expresses, so much as the issue of free speech? .... even if the issue is "just" politics, am i being so uncivil here?

i would want to be civil and therefore, i apologize to anyone who i may have offended ... but would it be uncivil to expect the sensitive to, or to ask the more sensitive to ..... avert their eyes that i might not offend them ?

is that uncivil?

i would only hope that i might be allowed to ask that for those who would want to accept the challenge of opening this sort of discussion that we all engage with clear minds and open hearts each other's visions, that we might better understand .... each other, if not neccessarily the issue(s).
... if that is too much to expect and the powers-that-be deign this uncivil of me, then i shall fold my tent and vanish in to the night of silence .... and i will be okay.... even if it were offensive to my sensibilities.

can you help me out tony? you're the sailor... what do you think?

i am lost ....

~ jim

 

Re: Re war and meall » lil' jimi

Posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 22:07:54

In reply to Re: Re war and meall » lostsailor, posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 21:55:24

good jimi,
this is a social format..
we should be expressive..angry..offended..turned on..pissed off....
need i say more..
all my sunshine and lollipops are used up..
so tired of being passive
peace-real peace
j

 

Re: Everyone wants peace - real peace » justyourlaugh

Posted by Dinah on April 17, 2003, at 22:24:01

In reply to Re: Re war and meall » lil' jimi, posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 22:07:54

Different people just have different ideas about how to go about getting it.

Did Chamberlain gain peace when Hitler chased him around the table?

Is lack of war the same as peace?

Peace at all costs?

Continuing the sanctions that hurt the Iraqi people was better than ending a brutal dictatorship? Yeah, how about another ten years of oil for food? Not to mention torture and oppression.

No easy answers.

 

Re: Re war and meall » justyourlaugh

Posted by lil' jimi on April 18, 2003, at 0:02:29

In reply to Re: Re war and meall » lil' jimi, posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 22:07:54

> good jimi,
> this is a social format..
> we should be expressive..angry..offended..turned on..pissed off....
> need i say more..
> all my sunshine and lollipops are used up..
> so tired of being passive
> peace-real peace
> j

just,

i wanted to cram all this into the subject line, to be discreet .... wouldn't fit .... tony's message awaken me...your's too .... no, you needn't say more ...... your silence speaks ... .. swears ... i'd miss your sunshine .... fire, lightning ... get some rest ... long days ahead.

i can be social.

listening for jyl,
~ jimi
p.s. anger, .... bold as love....

 

Tim's a tall one

Posted by leeran on April 18, 2003, at 0:05:29

In reply to Re: Win without War (very long), posted by justyourlaugh on April 17, 2003, at 17:54:35

I have always liked Tim Robbins since seeing him in the Shawshank Redemption and for awhile he was probably my favorite actor.

We saw him one day in Santa Monica at a skateboard shop with his son. I was so shocked at how tall he is (out of curiosity I just looked it up - 6' 5" tall).

I forgot about that movie Jacobs Ladder until you just mentioned it, JYL.

As a semi-addict to conspiracy theory websites (much to my husband's chagrin) I agree with you totally JYL: "it's not what it seems . . . never has been."

My husband has been known to say the following: "I love my country but I don't necessarily trust my government." In fact, I just told my husband at dinner that I've probably never been as confused politically (and perhaps in a lot of other ways as well :) than I am right now.

HOWEVER, I love my country and support our troops 110% - and I watch Fox News, listen to AM radio in the car and read controversial conspiracy theory websites just so I can keep myself totally off-guard ;)

I like to keep myself guessing because what other choice do we really have?

 

Re: Politics not in itselt uncivil IMHO » lil' jimi

Posted by jane d on April 18, 2003, at 0:16:01

In reply to Re: Re war and meall » lostsailor, posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 21:55:24

> it is when i think that one view is being surpressed that, i feel, a disservice is being done to our prespective on the issues ..... and i feel there are those who would be happier if they could hear only one voice ... as long as they may choose that voice.... i think we can see where that might be comfortable,... But, i think, we can see where that can cause a bigger problem, .. ..bigger problems.

justyourlaugh,

I absolutely agree. It's a vice of both sides unfortunately.

> we are challenged to be civil here.... may we discuss whether or not i have been civil by bringing up politics as a subject for consideration? .... and is politics even the issue mr. robbins expresses, so much as the issue of free speech? .... even if the issue is "just" politics, am i being so uncivil here?

I personally don't think that bringing up the subject of politics in uncivil. I do think that before this thread is over it will end up in other people being uncivil. And I think that's sad. And yes, I thought he was mostly talking about free speech too.

> i would want to be civil and therefore, i apologize to anyone who i may have offended ... but would it be uncivil to expect the sensitive to, or to ask the more sensitive to ..... avert their eyes that i might not offend them ?

I'm a big fan of "just don't read it" if you don't like it.

> i would only hope that i might be allowed to ask that for those who would want to accept the challenge of opening this sort of discussion that we all engage with clear minds and open hearts each other's visions, that we might better understand .... each other, if not neccessarily the issue(s).
> ... if that is too much to expect and the powers-that-be deign this uncivil of me, then i shall fold my tent and vanish in to the night of silence .... and i will be okay.... even if it were offensive to my sensibilities.

I don't think you need to worry about the "powers that be". And I hope you can get the kind of discussion that you are looking for. But the recent threads don't make me optimistic about it. I also worry that when you have these discussions with people with whom you have not already established a strong relationship that you don't end up knowing them better - but less well. Good luck.

Jane

 

Re: Re war et al--lil' james marshel l

Posted by lostsailor on April 18, 2003, at 0:34:03

In reply to Re: Re war and meall » lostsailor, posted by lil' jimi on April 17, 2003, at 21:55:24

Hmmm.

Wow, bud.

I don't know what to say. I love the music you seem to. does that speak to you at all? Does that mean nothing? was it a movement or a musical mayhem? Some of the best bands of the era choose to say nothing and others too much.

All are welcome to talk here. What I meant is I am to confused to really sort it out. be it jfk, rfk, "star wars" "'holy ‘" wars...I just have had loud voice in the past and offended others without intention. Like being beaten by a group of African Americans whole protesting the rk verdict. Is it him that may have said it bes: “why can’t we all just get along”

an older friend of mine did a lot of time "in country" in nam and for what??? to be pelted with things when he got home; to have people see him a fascist killer, a thug and murderer. he was young with a future. he was drafted. he now has ptsd. he has many medical probs associated with agent orange and came home with a poppy habit to boot. he kicked, but still can't forget --they were soldiers. They killed to stay alive. Killed and he and other can’t forget it—ever go to the wall in dc??. he saw innocent women, children and men killed. he saw soldiers kill their superiors.

Two of my uncles served in korea and came home to a hero's welcome and were not drafted--i don't believe.

I saw the post gulf war chapter 1 c soldiers come home to that same hero's welcome to suffer from gulf war syndrome and be told it does not exist.

i seem to see a lot and say little.

the soldiers are bold as love (wink) and the politicians--well no comment, except for 2 (lol):

bc got a bj and that was "terrible";

jc looked for alternative sources of power only to have the sad hostage crisis in '80 be "solved by reagan --who now does not remember--and that may be better for him to pass and not remember. would we all like not to remember evil doings and atrocities.

bill won one for the zipper, while ron the gipper...

i am lost.

i love others speaking hear about ANYTHING here. it just, for me, seems safer to stay lost yet informed. that’s why I read many of the posts.

i don't know if you follow me, but nor do i.

i mean i can't even see my non-bio son you and I talked about, which I am still gracious for, on his birthday unless I, what, marry his mom. and i HAD to promise not to leave him.

i don't really sail, but i have been too long at sea. i hear the shoreline beckon: there is a price for being free.

i hope this helps. honest, but i think you know that already

god bless, my friend,

~tony

feel free to post for me

 

Politics-Religion-MsgBoards don't seem to mix, but » jane d

Posted by leeran on April 18, 2003, at 0:45:17

In reply to Re: Politics not in itselt uncivil IMHO » lil' jimi, posted by jane d on April 18, 2003, at 0:16:01

I agree. Some topics can be real button-pushers.

Because I'm so wishy washy I can usually identify with both sides (or at least a few components of each argument) on almost everything.

If I do find myself starting to get irritated (not something that's happened since reading here on psycho-babble) I try my best to put the thread, the poster, or the post on "ignore" - which means (for me) that I observe the words but try not to react to them. In Buddhism I think they refer to something similar as detachment but for me it's just a survival mechanism to steer clear of cortisol (a.k.a. a feeble attempt to preserve that area once known as my waistline).

SO, I totally agree with your practice: "I'm a big fan of 'just don't read it' if you don't like it."

Additionally, I read this portion of your post (copied and pasted below) a couple of times and although I had never thought of it this way I think you make a very valuable point. The ice can get thin before you know it with these discussions.

"I also worry that when you have these discussions with people with whom you have not already established a strong relationship that you don't end up knowing them better - but less well."


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