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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ChrisK on April 6, 2002, at 6:42:06
I appreciate your thirst for knowledge but let me say one thing that helped me out a lot... try to treat your symptoms rather than the whole disease at once.
I'm 39 now and first saw a psychiatrist for my depression when I was 17. It's been off and on since then with some OK times and some terrible times. My first serious suicide attempt was in December of 1997. I spent 3 days in ICU after an overdose and then 14 days in a Psychiatric Hospital. I was pretty serious about ending my life.
At that time I didn't find the right doctor or medicine. Four months later I ended up in the same hospitals when a friend called the police to check on me when I took a much more lethal overdose. It was a very painful experience but I did find a doctor I liked. I was able to work with him, trying almost every med in sight.
I can't even remember all of the meds I tried but suffice it to say that I went through just about all of the modern drugs but finally settled on an old standby TCA, Nortriptyline. It was the one thing that releived my baseline depression without making me numb to any emotions,
I also fought with the suicidal thoughts and those were helped with Zyprexa. That med more than any other started to help me get my life back. But it really did just help one symptom of my disease.
I still went on for several years with anhedonia. I just could not find anything to feel good about and until I read here about the Dopamine drugs I didn't think there was any hope. I did a little research and talked my doctor into letting me try Mirapex. That ended up being the final piece of the puzzle.
I'm able to go back to work now after 5 years of disability because I couldn't function as a regular person. Besides being suicidal I had awful anxiety problems and panic attacks that left me emotionally crippled. There were months that I couldn't go out the front door for fear that I would end up crying in a ball on the ground. They were very terrible times that only a few people can really understand. I know that my wife and family could never appreciate what I went through emotionally.
It took a long time for me to get to where I am. I tried to tackle one symptom at a time. I know you want everything to get better right away but unfortunately that's not the way these mental diseases work. They take time and experimentation. Everyone is a little different. I had a great reaction to Zyprexa and people like Old School didn't. You may be doing well with Depakote but for me they were like taking sugar pills.
I hope that you have a doctor that you are comfortable with and can talk to, someone you trust. That seems to be the one constant here - an open relationship with the one prescribing your meds.
These problems can't be cured in days. They take time and effort. It can happen though. I've come back from spending 24 days in a mental hospital during a 4 month period to the point where I can work and own a home again. These are things that were the furthest from my mind 4 years ago.
Give things a chance to work. Don't try to reinvent psychopharmacology. Even though you are frustrated now you will find what's best for you. A solution is out there.
Chris
Posted by polarbear206 on April 6, 2002, at 14:52:06
In reply to Janelle, Can I Say Something..., posted by ChrisK on April 6, 2002, at 6:42:06
> I appreciate your thirst for knowledge but let me say one thing that helped me out a lot... try to treat your symptoms rather than the whole disease at once.
>
> I'm 39 now and first saw a psychiatrist for my depression when I was 17. It's been off and on since then with some OK times and some terrible times. My first serious suicide attempt was in December of 1997. I spent 3 days in ICU after an overdose and then 14 days in a Psychiatric Hospital. I was pretty serious about ending my life.
>
> At that time I didn't find the right doctor or medicine. Four months later I ended up in the same hospitals when a friend called the police to check on me when I took a much more lethal overdose. It was a very painful experience but I did find a doctor I liked. I was able to work with him, trying almost every med in sight.
>
> I can't even remember all of the meds I tried but suffice it to say that I went through just about all of the modern drugs but finally settled on an old standby TCA, Nortriptyline. It was the one thing that releived my baseline depression without making me numb to any emotions,
>
> I also fought with the suicidal thoughts and those were helped with Zyprexa. That med more than any other started to help me get my life back. But it really did just help one symptom of my disease.
>
> I still went on for several years with anhedonia. I just could not find anything to feel good about and until I read here about the Dopamine drugs I didn't think there was any hope. I did a little research and talked my doctor into letting me try Mirapex. That ended up being the final piece of the puzzle.
>
> I'm able to go back to work now after 5 years of disability because I couldn't function as a regular person. Besides being suicidal I had awful anxiety problems and panic attacks that left me emotionally crippled. There were months that I couldn't go out the front door for fear that I would end up crying in a ball on the ground. They were very terrible times that only a few people can really understand. I know that my wife and family could never appreciate what I went through emotionally.
>
> It took a long time for me to get to where I am. I tried to tackle one symptom at a time. I know you want everything to get better right away but unfortunately that's not the way these mental diseases work. They take time and experimentation. Everyone is a little different. I had a great reaction to Zyprexa and people like Old School didn't. You may be doing well with Depakote but for me they were like taking sugar pills.
>
> I hope that you have a doctor that you are comfortable with and can talk to, someone you trust. That seems to be the one constant here - an open relationship with the one prescribing your meds.
>
> These problems can't be cured in days. They take time and effort. It can happen though. I've come back from spending 24 days in a mental hospital during a 4 month period to the point where I can work and own a home again. These are things that were the furthest from my mind 4 years ago.
>
> Give things a chance to work. Don't try to reinvent psychopharmacology. Even though you are frustrated now you will find what's best for you. A solution is out there.
>
> Chris
Chris,
I'm so glad that everything worked out for you!!! Are you currently taking anything else along with the Mirapex? I'm on a combo of low dose ssri and tricyclic. This is the only combo that keeps most of my symptoms at bay. Where did you get your info. about the dopamine drugs? THANKS
Posted by ChrisK on April 6, 2002, at 18:45:39
In reply to Re: Janelle, Can I Say Something.. TO CHRIS, posted by polarbear206 on April 6, 2002, at 14:52:06
I still take 100 mg of Nortriptyline and 7.5 mg of Zyprexa each day in addition to 4-6 mg/day of Mirapex.
Try these sites to learn a little more about Mirapex as an AD.
http://www.parkinson.org/mxdepress.htm
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.resistant.html
The info on the second page is about half way down but there is a lot of good info on the whole page.
I'm not as well versed as others here as far as how things work, I just know what worked for me and even though the Zyprexa and Mirapex might seem to contradict each other in some sense the combo has worked out for me.
My father also suffered from depression and he spent most of his life taking Amitriptyline and Valium. For whatever reasons the TCA's have worked in my family while the SSRI's did not.
Bes of luck to you. There is hope,
Chris
Posted by Janelle on April 11, 2002, at 1:40:29
In reply to Janelle, Can I Say Something..., posted by ChrisK on April 6, 2002, at 6:42:06
ChrisK - Thanks for taking the time and effort to address me personally on this board ... sorry I did not get to answer your message sooner, but I've been having some problems lately (which I may or may not post about at a later date) ... anyway, I'm addressing your message here, and will be putting my responses under each of your original paragraphs, so be sure to keep scrolling all the way down to the end! :-)
I've asked you some more questions in some of my new paragraphs, which I hope you'll answer back!
> I appreciate your thirst for knowledge but let me say one thing that helped me out a lot... try to treat your symptoms rather than the whole disease at once.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm trying to treat the whole disease at once, rather than my symptoms. I thought I made it pretty clear on here that I'm on a med cocktail, with each med aimed at a different SYMPTOM.
>
> I'm 39 now and first saw a psychiatrist for my depression when I was 17. It's been off and on since then with some OK times and some terrible times. My first serious suicide attempt was in December of 1997. I spent 3 days in ICU after an overdose and then 14 days in a Psychiatric Hospital. I was pretty serious about ending my life.I'm sorry to hear this ...
>
> At that time I didn't find the right doctor or medicine. Four months later I ended up in the same hospitals when a friend called the police to check on me when I took a much more lethal overdose. It was a very painful experience but I did find a doctor I liked. I was able to work with him, trying almost every med in sight.Glad you had found a doctor you liked and were able to try a wide variety of meds ...
> I can't even remember all of the meds I tried but suffice it to say that I went through just about all of the modern drugs but finally settled on an old standby TCA, Nortriptyline. It was the one thing that releived my baseline depression without making me numb to any emotions,
Interesting, because the first AD I tried (with success I might add!) was Amitriptyline (Elavil), which breaks down into Nortriptyline!
>
> I also fought with the suicidal thoughts and those were helped with Zyprexa. That med more than any other started to help me get my life back. But it really did just help one symptom of my disease.Are you still on Zyprexa??
I am on it myself! However, I'm having problems with the dose: 2.5 mg/day seems to do NOTHING, 5 mg/day seemed to work well but something must have changed with my biochemistry because after repeated days of that dose I grow more and more depressed. At one point, my pdoc had me taking 7.5mg, but that had me in bed, unable to move.
>
> I still went on for several years with anhedonia. I just could not find anything to feel good about and until I read here about the Dopamine drugs I didn't think there was any hope. I did a little research and talked my doctor into letting me try Mirapex. That ended up being the final piece of the puzzle.What classification of med is Mirapex?? Never heard of that one.
>
> I'm able to go back to work now after 5 years of disability because I couldn't function as a regular person. Besides being suicidal I had awful anxiety problems and panic attacks that left me emotionally crippled. There were months that I couldn't go out the front door for fear that I would end up crying in a ball on the ground. They were very terrible times that only a few people can really understand. I know that my wife and family could never appreciate what I went through emotionally.What you described sounds eerily familiar ... there are times when I simply cannot function and it scares the heck out of me, feeds my existing anxiety, I then feel anxious about feeling anxious and the whole thing snowballs. I'm sur you get the picture.
You mentioned 5 years of disability - do you mean that you were unable/disabled from working/holding down a job for that time period and/or that you were on some form of medical disability payments/leave for that time period?
> It took a long time for me to get to where I am. I tried to tackle one symptom at a time. I know you want everything to get better right away but unfortunately that's not the way these mental diseases work. They take time and experimentation. Everyone is a little different. I had a great reaction to Zyprexa and people like Old School didn't. You may be doing well with Depakote but for me they were like taking sugar pills.
The jury's not in yet on the Depakote ... some possible problems may be looming ...
> I hope that you have a doctor that you are comfortable with and can talk to, someone you trust. That seems to be the one constant here - an open relationship with the one prescribing your meds.Yes, I do have such a doctor. :-)
> These problems can't be cured in days. They take time and effort. It can happen though. I've come back from spending 24 days in a mental hospital during a 4 month period to the point where I can work and own a home again. These are things that were the furthest from my mind 4 years ago.Glad to hear how far you've come ... very heartwarming and encouraging.
>
> Give things a chance to work. Don't try to reinvent psychopharmacology. Even though you are frustrated now you will find what's best for you. A solution is out there.Again, don't know where you're getting that I'm trying to "reinvent" pyschopharmacology -- all I did was ask some technical (perhaps too technical) questions about bioneurology and meds to better understand them. Oh well ...!
Thanks for your time and interest!
Posted by Denise528 on April 11, 2002, at 6:23:20
In reply to Re: Janelle, Can I Say Something... » ChrisK, posted by Janelle on April 11, 2002, at 1:40:29
Janelle,
Have you tried taking 10mg of Zyprexa? I sometimes find that if I take 10mg every 4 or 5 days it gives me some kind of boost. 5mg didn't really do much but 10mg really seemed to help.
Denise
Posted by BlueJay Bird on April 11, 2002, at 21:09:03
In reply to Re: Janelle, have you tried 10mg of Zyprexa?, posted by Denise528 on April 11, 2002, at 6:23:20
Gee, Denise, I would be TERRIFIED to try 10 mg, since the 7.5 mg (but it was on a daily basis for a few days) all but made me comatose! Hmmm ... taking a high dose (10 mg to me is high!) every few days ... something to ponder and ask my pdoc about. Thanks for the input!
Posted by BlueJay Bird on April 11, 2002, at 21:10:32
In reply to Re: Janelle, have you tried 10mg of Zyprexa? » Denise528, posted by BlueJay Bird on April 11, 2002, at 21:09:03
Posted by ChrisK on April 12, 2002, at 6:16:26
In reply to Re: Janelle, Can I Say Something... » ChrisK, posted by Janelle on April 11, 2002, at 1:40:29
Janelle,
To address your questions. I still take 7.5 mg/day of Zyprexa and it helps me more than anything else as far as my ability to think clearly. My doctor let me play with my dosage a lot once we determined that I was being helped by it. I finally landed on the 7.5 mg dose once per day. I definitely notice a difference if I miss 2 doses.
Mirapex is a Parkinson's med that has some nice AD effects. I am taking it off label obviously but it has relieved a lot of my anhedonia. Check out these two sites:
http://www.parkinson.org/mxdepress.htm
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.resistant.html
The 2nd site has the info 1/2 way down the page.
As far as disabilty goes, I have been getting SS Disabilty for about 3-4 years now. I have a BS in engineering and had some pretty good jobs but after losing one of those jobs due to the depression I just couldn't function as an engineer anymore. I became suicidal and spent some time in mental hospitals. SSDI determined that I was indeed incapable of holding a job that was up to my education and experience and OK'd my disability.
Now, I am feeling better and going back to school in order to make a change into the area of computer administration. I can stilll get the disabilty while I'm in training but I hope to find a full time job this year and get off the SSDI.
If I had known while I was working that most of my problems were symptoms of my depression I may have been able to take a leave of absence from my job and get help without losing that job. It just didn't work out that way. Hindsight is 20/20 and now I can see how I ended up where I did.
If you think you may need to go on disabilty it is best to start early. They take their sweet time and have a history of declining the first application for people with mental illness problems. It's not a lot of money compared to holding down a job but it helps pay the rent and food.
You mentioned that you recognized the feelings of panic attacks or anxiety attacks - have you tried a Benzo for those? I had terrible attacks for a couple of years but got relief from Klonopin. There were times that the pressure from the anxiety was so great that I literrally couldn't do anything but lay on the floor crying. I wouldn't wish those attacks on anybody. They have been gone now for quite a while. I occassisonally get a mini attack but it's always something I can get through without breaking down completely.
Hope this answers some of your questions,
Chris
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