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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mishal on November 6, 2002, at 6:22:13
Hello,
I had posted a similar thread earlier. But those in this board didn't seem to have interested. So I repeat my question once again. I am on klonopin (generic clonazepam) 1 mg for over a year and now I like to quit. My doc doesn't care, whether I quit or not. He only knows how to refill my prescription. I don't blame him, as he is a very busy psychiatrist.I think I will try to cut down 25 % and stay on it for a couple of weeks and do the same procedure again. Can I withdraw the drug completely in this way without having annoying withdrawals? Or should I use any other medication to substitute it ? Does this drug cause a serious dependence within a year. I think I am on a low dose of this medication. Is 1 mg is sufficient enough to produce a significant dependence ?
The reason for being on this medicine was a concentration problem. Now I think I am not in need of this med. Please help!
Posted by Essence on November 6, 2002, at 7:28:58
In reply to CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by Mishal on November 6, 2002, at 6:22:13
I am on the same dose you are on, and I tried after only being on it for 3 months to get off it, my anxiety and panic attacks started after the second descrease and were worse than before I started the Clon. I decreased a 1/4 of a pill every week, but 5 days after the second decrease, all hell broke lose. Go ever so slow in decreasing this med, even if it means shaving bits away and spacing the decreases over several weeks until your body adjusts. Will take you a while to get off of it this way, but it might be the only way to do it to not suffer severe withdrawal symptoms. Best of luck to you.
Ess
Posted by cubbybear on November 6, 2002, at 7:35:18
In reply to CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by Mishal on November 6, 2002, at 6:22:13
Hello Mishal,
I read your post. I'm presently taking 4 mg of Klonopin per day, as a sleeping aid, in conjunction with an antidepressant. I don't have any plans to discontinue it yet and I'm not an expert. But after reading a lot of info on Klonopin, I do know that a dosage of 1 mg/day is NOT at all excessive. It sounds to me that your real problem is your doctor, who has a professional obligation to help you establish a reduction schedule. If he only cares about writing prescriptions, you should either be assertive with him and tell him what you want, or get another doctor!! I've read that Klonopin is one of the easiest benzos to quit. But I wouldn't want to guess how to calculate it without a professional opinion. The general rule is GO SLOWLY and NEVER go cold turkey. Hope this helps.
Posted by J200 on November 6, 2002, at 7:38:31
In reply to CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by Mishal on November 6, 2002, at 6:22:13
Withdrawing from any benzodiazepine can be a problem for some people, no problem at all for others. Try cutting your dose down by 1/4 mg per week and see how it goes. Perhaps you will not have any problems. If you do, do see your doctor about your withdrawal problems. One caution - avoid caffeine and alcohol during the withdrawal process.
Posted by Alan on November 7, 2002, at 7:53:43
In reply to Re: CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by J200 on November 6, 2002, at 7:38:31
> Withdrawing from any benzodiazepine can be a problem for some people, no problem at all for others. Try cutting your dose down by 1/4 mg per week and see how it goes. Perhaps you will not have any problems. If you do, do see your doctor about your withdrawal problems. One caution - avoid caffeine and alcohol during the withdrawal process.
=========================================
Good advice. I'm on 1.5 - 2 mgs and have stopped several times. The key was to listen to my body and taper at a rate that is right for me. No chart or preset expectations, just do what feels right.
Of course, you probably need a doc that's going to help you if the concentration problems reoccur. What are you and your doc's long term strategy for treating this problem since it is more likely thatn not to return. Klon doesn't cure anything it only treats symptoms.
Best,
Alan
Posted by 2sense on November 7, 2002, at 8:59:18
In reply to Re: CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by Alan on November 7, 2002, at 7:53:43
Your doctor sounds like mine -- I started at 0.5 mg for sleep, then after 4-5 mos. to 1.0 and finally after a year or so they upped it to 2.0 and after about 3 months there was a big turnover at the pdoc's office and I had other health problems and the doc upped it to 4 mg. I took that from late 11/02 until I wanted off, ran out and the doc -- I stopped 03/19 -- script ran out no refills couldn't get doctor ... family had flu -- didn't sleep well next 10 days .. increase in caffiene and then 2 entire days w/o sleep -- result --> grand mal seizure.
After many doctors ... neurologists, internists, pdocs,, etc. The upshot was it was a provoked seizure ... be careful -- I weaned off under a doctor's care 0.25 mg 7-10 days at a time ... I had no idea it was addictive and the abrupt w/d causing seizures is not readily stated many places (e.x., nurses pdr -- one would have to look under anti-convulsants/benzo's -- a bit of irony there) it wasn't even on the pharmacy's 'blurb' -- don't stop medication abruptly without notifying your doctor. After all was said and done ... it wrecked havoc in my life, my family ... be very * careful *. Also even at that slow withdrawl, at about the 1.5-1.0 mg. I had a full blown panic attack with crying jags which I had never experienced and it was isolated (thank God) and the new pdoc said it was a fairly classic w/d symptoms. I believe I read you were on 1 mg. -- might not seem like a lot, but the threshold for seizures is lowered with alcohol, caffiene, lack of sleep, etc. My best ... if you want off you can do it ... keep posting.
Posted by Squiggles on November 8, 2002, at 13:40:04
In reply to Re: CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw » Alan, posted by 2sense on November 7, 2002, at 8:59:18
I just saw something on the benzo network:
it is called the Winslow method, and it looks
like something they prepared at Newcastle
Hospital -- it is a liquid Valium substitute
preparation to wean you off; i did not try it
myself; i tried a fractional decrement style,
but it did not work, and i don't recommend it.
If you have been on K for a long time, i think
it is a real problem getting off.I would frankly, go to an Addictionologist;
they must know about benzos by now.good luck
Squiggles
Posted by hiba on November 8, 2002, at 23:26:00
In reply to CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by Mishal on November 6, 2002, at 6:22:13
Hello Mishal,
You have been blessed with enough advises so far. From my own experience I can assure you, you are on a low dose of this drug and withdrawal is not going to be a big deal. The procedure which you follow is right. 1 mg is fairly a low dose, besides generic clonazepam is not as potent as Klonopin the real brand. So don't worry, keep the withdrawal procedure. Don't go to any other anti-benzo sites which only will pay to scare you and distract you from your goal. As Alan noted, your concentration problem will more likely to return once you are completely off clonazepam, unless it was situational. Talk with your doc, or if he is so a busy psychiatrist, try to find another one.
Good luck to you, take care. Once again, don't surf and get trapped in those anti-benzo web.
HIBA
Posted by Squiggles on November 9, 2002, at 8:06:15
In reply to Re: CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by hiba on November 8, 2002, at 23:26:00
Oh you said a YEAR--that should be much easier
than being on for 15 yrs,; yup, I think hiba is right
here; keep us posted and good luck;Squiggles
Posted by Alan on November 9, 2002, at 23:08:20
In reply to Re: CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw » hiba, posted by Squiggles on November 9, 2002, at 8:06:15
> Oh you said a YEAR--that should be much easier
> than being on for 15 yrs,; yup, I think hiba is right
> here; keep us posted and good luck;
>
> Squiggles
==============================================
Of course there is no scientifically credible evidence that the longer one is on a bzd or AD, the more problems one will experience with the tapering process. It's pure speculation at this point.1 month on effexor could POSSIBLY, if not tapered slowly enough, could send someone to the psych ward whereas 5 years on Klonopin would be relatively, by contrast, a walk in the park. It is highly individualised. One can not extrapolate for the entire population based on anecdotal information....
This is the problem with these anti-bzd/anti-med sites...they don't provide any stastical data except anecdotal evidence ( and questionable stuff at that) with no disclaimers.
Alan
Posted by Squiggles on November 10, 2002, at 10:56:45
In reply to Re: CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw, posted by Alan on November 9, 2002, at 23:08:20
Well, as i said, keep us posted and take it easy.
As for the anecdotal stuff, i have a bug about
that; it seems to me very unscientific to say
that everyone is different -- yeah everyone is
different - some of us are male and some of us
are female, some of us are old and some of us
are young; but when it comes to drugs, if you
can't rely on a predictable response from
all people (exluding blatantly obvious and
effective variable on the drug soup) then i don't
see how you can possibly prescribe the same
drugs for the same ailments. For example,
not everybody died from the bubonic plague, but
most who were exposed did.
Squiggles
Posted by meow mary on November 10, 2002, at 12:50:55
In reply to Re: CLONAZEPAM for One Year and How to Withdraw » Alan, posted by Squiggles on November 10, 2002, at 10:56:45
Perhaps you are right about at least being able to predict responses in general. But unfortunately, in this field, I think we see how prescribing the same drugs for the same ailments continually leads to different responses in many people. I think that's part of the unending frustration. At least it is for me. Otherwise I would have walked into my doctor's office 9 years ago and been cured with some samples of Paxil. Instead I have spent the last near-decade trying to fit into some profile which doesn't exist for me-- except that of "Treatment Resistant Depression".
Posted by Alan on November 10, 2002, at 14:03:33
In reply to Predictable Responses, posted by meow mary on November 10, 2002, at 12:50:55
> Perhaps you are right about at least being able to predict responses in general. But unfortunately, in this field, I think we see how prescribing the same drugs for the same ailments continually leads to different responses in many people. I think that's part of the unending frustration. At least it is for me. Otherwise I would have walked into my doctor's office 9 years ago and been cured with some samples of Paxil. Instead I have spent the last near-decade trying to fit into some profile which doesn't exist for me-- except that of "Treatment Resistant Depression".
===========================================The root of the problem is that people -- doctors, researchers, patients, relatives, etc. -- so often try to say what "it" is, i.e. to talk about the condition rather than the case. "It" is so many different things, and sometimes several of them operate simultaneously in the same person.
But as long as so many people including supposed experts are saying "it" is this or "it" is that, we're absolutely guaranteed that many or most patients are going to get miserable and quite possibly even harmful treatment. That includes medications, both SSRIs and benzodiazepines as well as others. Each of these is exactly what some people DON'T need.Everyone should be looking more at the individual to see which models are relevant to that individual and which ones are misleading.
It is ESSENTIAL that one remembers this one important fact about your's and other's situation especially in the case of AD's:
Differences in individuals' reactions to antidepressants are so big that it is difficult to state meaningful generalizations about the statistical difference between one drug and another.
That being said, it is still best not to overgeneralise for or extrapolate for the general population based on anecdotal evidence.Alan
Posted by Squiggles on November 10, 2002, at 14:38:24
In reply to Predictable Responses, posted by meow mary on November 10, 2002, at 12:50:55
Hi Meow Mary,
Though I have not had this problem (and I consider
myself lucky and grateful to the good judgement of
my doctors), I sympathize entirely. As I have said
i have a friend who has had that problem - trying one
drug after the other; but take heart eventually
you might hit on the right one -- i think the trick
is to discriminate between classes of drugs which
seem to agree with you, once you recongize a pattern.cheers,
Squiggles
Posted by Alan on November 10, 2002, at 15:30:34
In reply to Re: Predictable Responses » meow mary, posted by Squiggles on November 10, 2002, at 14:38:24
Posted by Mishal on November 10, 2002, at 23:15:13
In reply to Re: Predictable Responses » meow mary, posted by Squiggles on November 10, 2002, at 14:38:24
Interesting!! My thread opens the door to a debate, How nice of that!! Now let me thank you all. I had begun to taper my clonazepam prior to the posting and now have come down to 0.5 mg (of clonazepam) a day, and so far nothing unusual except a slight dysphoria toward the end of the day. I think this kind of dysphoric feeling is quite natural when you are getting off a powerful psychotropic. Dysphoria is a problem but it is decreasing in severity. Yes, I am hopeful now. It is not like what I heard and read. I will keep posting, if others in this board are interested. Slowly I will cut down this to half. I can do it, as Hiba noted, it is not going to be a big deal.
This is the end of the thread.
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