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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 9, 2005, at 14:47:49
In reply to Re: Parnate 20mg, Day 6 » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 7:54:08
> Yes, you should definitely not increase the dose since you're feeling so great! Only if it starts to poop-out should you consider an increase, there's no point in taking more than you need :-)
Exactly my thinking, as well as the fact that I know many people develop tolerance to Parnate over time and so the lower I can keep my dose at any given time, the better!
~Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 9, 2005, at 14:53:41
In reply to Re: Parnate 20mg, Day 6 » Ame Sans Vie, posted by cubbybear on March 9, 2005, at 8:00:46
> Hi Michael,
> I'm very happy for you that you seem to have struck it rich with Parnate. If indeed you attain full therapeutic benefit (including remisison of depression) from a mere 20 mg./day, I think that would be quite rare. Please talk to your doctor about that, so you don't wind up having a relapse and mistakenly think that the Parnate pooped out, when in fact you were not taking an adequate therapeutic dose.I'm surprised at my response as well, especially considering the relatively high doses of amphetamines I required (not to mention my enormous tolerance for other drugs). I have spoken with my doctor about this already, actually, to feel him out concerning how high he'd be willing to push the dose if required, as I know some people end up needing hundreds of milligrams per day. He says the sky's the limit, barring unwanted adverse reactions.
> My next question, which i've wondered about all this time--is what does "ames san vie" mean?
Ed_uk hit the nail on the head -- "soul without life", or "lifeless soul", in French. Kind of a downer, I know, lol, but everyone has known be by that name here and elsewhere on the net for ten years.
~Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 9, 2005, at 15:03:07
In reply to Re: Parnate 20mg, Day 6, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 13:55:27
> Boy you must have a tolerance.
To put it quite mildly! :-) I envy my mother and sister who can take a milligram of Xanax XR and be set for most of the day. Ever since I first began taking benzodiazepines in a "self-medicating" fashion at the age of 16 six years ago, four milligrams of immediate-release Xanax was the bare minimum that worked for me.
> I took meprobomate 450mg with valium years ago, but gave it up on my own when I felt better. I'm now in the process of giving up chloral hydrate liquid after 8yrs use. I'm taking l5mg remeron and l0mg valium now to sleep and it works. May I ask how much chloral hydrate you took, and how long it worked for you. You're the first person on this Board that I've heard has taken this med.
Yeah, it is pretty rarely prescribed these days, especially outside of pediatrics and veterinary medicine, it seems. I find it to be rather ridiculous as it has much less abuse potential than benzos or the newer drugs replacing them as hypnotics (Ambien, Sonata, Imovane, Lunesta). Besides, for me anyway, it works a lot better too.
I took Somnote (comes in blister packs of 500mg gelcaps) 2,000mg at night, alternating with Tuinal (amobarbital/secobarbital combination) to avoid tolerance. This went on for about a year while I was prescribed amphetamines for depression.
Best of luck coming off the chloral -- I know it can be hard, especially after eight years! But the Remeron and Valium should help with that quite a bit.
Take care,
~Michael
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 15:28:33
In reply to Re: Parnate 20mg, Day 6 » Phillipa, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 9, 2005, at 15:03:07
Hi Ame,
>Yeah, it is pretty rarely prescribed these days, especially outside of pediatrics and veterinary medicine, it seems.
I've worked in a few pharmacies (in England). Most people who take Seconal are very old- I guess they've been on it for decades~! A lot of them are in nursing homes, often in their 90s or ever 100! The same goes for Amytal, Sodium Amytal, Tuinal and Soneryl.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:10:35
In reply to Re: Parnate 20mg, Day 6 » Ame Sans Vie » cubbybear, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 9, 2005, at 14:53:41
> "soul without life", or "lifeless soul", in French. Kind of a downer, I know, lol, but everyone has known be by that name here and elsewhere on the net for ten years.
Maybe 10 years is long enough? How would one say "soul with life" in French? :-)
Bob
Posted by cubbybear on March 10, 2005, at 1:24:19
In reply to Re: Parnate 20mg, Day 6 » Ame Sans Vie » cubbybear, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 9, 2005, at 14:53:41
I have spoken with my doctor about this already, actually, to feel him out concerning how high he'd be willing to push the dose if required, as I know some people end up needing hundreds of milligrams per day. He says the sky's the limit, barring unwanted adverse reactions.
>
I'm always amazed at hearing how many people do well on doses in excess of 70 mg/day. My thinking has been (wrongfully) shaped by the patient insert which simply states therapeutic dose up to 60 mg/day, and Glaxosmith Kline evidently refuses to update the insert to reflect the liberalized diet restrictions and changes in thinking about high doses.
I still wonder, though, if you don't have insurance, wouldn't high doses get to be quite expensive? And if you are covered by insurance, hasn't the insurance company established a limit as to how high a dose they will pay for? Seems that these people have mastered the art of denying payment for every reason imaginable, so I wonder if they've set a maximum reimbursement vis a vis Parnate dosage. Just curious. cubbybear
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 10:39:35
In reply to Re: Short-acting barbiturates » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 15:28:33
> >Yeah, it is pretty rarely prescribed these days, especially outside of pediatrics and veterinary medicine, it seems.
>
> I've worked in a few pharmacies (in England). Most people who take Seconal are very old- I guess they've been on it for decades~! A lot of them are in nursing homes, often in their 90s or ever 100! The same goes for Amytal, Sodium Amytal, Tuinal and Soneryl.I was actually talking about chloral hydrate when I made the above remark -- you're certainly right that short-acting barbiturates are something of a dinosaur these days outside of hospital medicine and the elderly who've been dependent on them for 20, 30, 40+ years. Phenobarbital and Mebaral both seem to remain popular in pediatric use for epilepsy, however.
~Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 10:42:50
In reply to Re: Kind of a downer, posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:10:35
> > "soul without life", or "lifeless soul", in French. Kind of a downer, I know, lol, but everyone has known be by that name here and elsewhere on the net for ten years.
>
> Maybe 10 years is long enough? How would one say "soul with life" in French? :-)
>
> Boblol, perhaps you're right! I'm sure everyone would still recognize me with only a slightly altered name. :-)
I'll announce it in Admin and/or Social when I change it -- "soul with life" would be "Ame Avec Vie", which has a nice ring to it. :-)
~Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 10:55:12
In reply to Re: Parnate 20mg, Day 6, posted by cubbybear on March 10, 2005, at 1:24:19
> I still wonder, though, if you don't have insurance, wouldn't high doses get to be quite expensive? And if you are covered by insurance, hasn't the insurance company established a limit as to how high a dose they will pay for? Seems that these people have mastered the art of denying payment for every reason imaginable, so I wonder if they've set a maximum reimbursement vis a vis Parnate dosage. Just curious. cubbybear
At the moment I still rely on Medicaid to pay for any medications I take aside from clonazepam, meprobamate and Seconal, which I pay out of pocket for due to the three-prescription-per-month limit. Normally, though, at least in Texas, Medicaid won't reimburse for more than 100 tablets of Parnate in one prescription, which would mean 300 tablets per month (100mg / day) would be my upper limit. However, my new pdoc has worked with them to prearrange for the possibility of higher doses should they prove necessary, and Medicaid has agreed to pay for whatever is necessary considering my history of extreme treatment-resistance. After all, it is much less expensive than ECT or many other drugs I've been on, e.g., Provigil and Desoxyn!
Also, I of course do not want to rely on the State to pay for my drugs for the rest of my life, and I really struck gold the other day when I took an old computer monitor to a local repair shop for an extra $20 only to be offered a full-time position as server administrator for small businesses! Apparently they've been looking for someone who knows Linux and Unix for quite some time, so my switching from Windows to Linux and the resultant in-depth studying I've done into programming has really paid off! Parnate costs about $1 per tablet, and it (even at this early point in treatment) is worth more than its weight in gold to me and I'd be willing to pay however much it ends up costing me.
~Michael
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 11:07:16
In reply to Re: Short-acting barbiturates » ed_uk, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 10:39:35
Hi ame,
>I was actually talking about chloral hydrate when I made the above remark.
Oops sorry, I didn't read your post that carefully :-S You're right about chloral, it's sometimes used as a paediatric pre-med, midazolam seems to be replacing it to some extent. Welldorm tablets (chloral betaine) are prescribed in a similar manner to Amytal, Seconal etc.
>Mebaral
We don't have mephobarbital here!
Best regards,
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 11:10:12
In reply to Re: Kind of a downer » Dr. Bob, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 10:42:50
>I'll announce it in Admin and/or Social when I change it
No! Don't change it, it's a cool name, I like it! Are you secretly French?
Ed.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 11:50:19
In reply to Re: Kind of a downer » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 11:10:12
> >I'll announce it in Admin and/or Social when I change it
>
> No! Don't change it, it's a cool name, I like it! Are you secretly French?lol, no, I'm "secretly" Texan, actually... or Pennsylvanian... or Californian... depends on whether one defines that sort of thing by birth (California), childhood home (Pennsylvania), or current residence (Texas). :-)
I've just always been fascinated by languages and began to teach myself French at the age of 12, along with a multitude of other languages (e.g., Russian, Latin, Spanish, Italian, German, Kiswahili, Japanese, Mandarin, Arabic, Irish Gaelic) most of which I've sadly forgotten. My French is still pretty up to par, though, and currently I'm taking a step in another linguistic direction -- studying the evolution of the English language and learning the grammar and vocabulary of Chaucer's English (I've already gotten the pronunciation down -- *beautiful* language).
I really like my name too, but it certainly doesn't reflect how I feel inside anymore... perhaps I should initiate a poll on Social? What do you think? :-)
Of course, I'm also totally open to other suggestions, either in French or English that I could translate into French. :-)
Take care,
~Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 11:57:29
In reply to Re: Short-acting barbiturates, Chloral etc... » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 11:07:16
> Hi ame,
>
> >I was actually talking about chloral hydrate when I made the above remark.
>
> Oops sorry, I didn't read your post that carefully :-S You're right about chloral, it's sometimes used as a paediatric pre-med, midazolam seems to be replacing it to some extent.Yes, I'd heard that about midazolam, and considering its strong propensity to induce anterograde amnesia I imagine it would be more helpful in a pre-surgical setting than any form of chloral.
I'd also heard that, primarily outside the U.S., midazolam syrup is often used pediatrically to treat more severe forms of certain parasomnias. Was I misinformed, or is this really a valid use? Just curious.
> Welldorm tablets (chloral betaine) are prescribed in a similar manner to Amytal, Seconal etc.
I've never had chloral betaine... are its effects/indications much different than those for chloral hydrate?
> >Mebaral
>
> We don't have mephobarbital here!Oh, I wasn't aware of that -- ashamedly, I don't keep up as well as I should with international prescribing trends. :-)
~Michael
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 12:45:19
In reply to Re: Short-acting barbiturates, Chloral etc... » ed_uk, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 11:57:29
Hi ame!
I was born, brought up and live in three towns which are very close together. I don't have such an interesting background :-)
>I've just always been fascinated by languages and began to teach myself French at the age of 12, along with a multitude of other languages (e.g., Russian, Latin, Spanish, Italian, German, Kiswahili, Japanese, Mandarin, Arabic, Irish Gaelic) most of which I've sadly forgotten. My French is still pretty up to par, though, and currently I'm taking a step in another linguistic direction -- studying the evolution of the English language and learning the grammar and vocabulary of Chaucer's English (I've already gotten the pronunciation down -- *beautiful* language).
That's amazing! How on earth did you find time to learn all those languages?
I did French for a few years at school but it was always my worst subject. I wanted to be good at it but I just didn't have the ability. I was good at science but dreadful at foreign languages.
You are a very interesting person. You seem to have taken practically every drug in Pihkal, do you still experiment?
>I really like my name too, but it certainly doesn't reflect how I feel inside anymore... perhaps I should initiate a poll on Social? What do you think? :-)
Maybe you should just call yourself 'ame', then it wouldn't matter how you were feeling. I think I prefer ame sans vie though, it's more unique. Yes, I think you should start a poll on social.
>I'd also heard that, primarily outside the U.S., midazolam syrup is often used pediatrically to treat more severe forms of certain parasomnias. Was I misinformed, or is this really a valid use? Just curious.
Oral midazolam syrup is apparantly popular in some countries, we don't have it in the UK though, we've just got the injection (Hypnovel). As far as I know, oral midazolam is popular as a premedication for children, I'm not sure whether it's used outside the hospital setting. In some countries, oral midazolam is used to treat insomnia in adults, not sure about children.
>I've never had chloral betaine... are its effects/indications much different than those for chloral hydrate?
They're virtually the same, chloral betaine rapidly dissociates in the stomach to release chloral hydrate.
>ashamedly, I don't keep up as well as I should with international prescribing trends.
Lol, you seem to have been keeping up with plenty of other things.
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 12:57:21
In reply to Re: Ame » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 12:45:19
BTW, chloral betaine 707 mg = chloral hydrate 414 mg.
Posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 13:04:45
In reply to Re: Ame » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 12:45:19
>You seem to have taken practically every drug in Pihkal, do you still experiment?
OK, maybe not while you're on Parnate!!
Ed.
Posted by temoigneur on March 10, 2005, at 21:41:49
In reply to Re: Short-acting barbiturates, Chloral etc... » ed_uk, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 11:57:29
Hey Michael how are you doing. Are you in school right now, I remember your french, perhaps you're launched in a carreer. How is your family, mine is good, I'm going to the Anxiety Disorder Conference in Seattle next month, should be informative:)
I haven't been on the anxiety boards that much recently, so i don't know if you are still in contact, but I have severe anxiety and moderate – heavy OCD.... I was asking you about tramadol while i was trying nardil. I went on Tramadol, but I thing the NRI properties it shares with effexor were making me quite anxious. As explained below, I'm on Clomipramine now, but tricyclics, feel similar to zyprexa to me, it certainly has controlled my OCD well, but I sleep most of the day, and have little/no ambition to do much of anything, I’m numb, and have lost much of my creativity.
I was wondering, with your knowledge of anxiolytics and drugs, is there anything you might recommend addiing to or as an alternative to clomipramine. I wrote this message in Feb. before I saw your post on Parnate, that’s about the only drug available in Canada I haven’t been on. Below I've explained some of the complications I've had with stimulants/SSRI's …
After, ridiculous anxiety - being almost driven to suicide numerous times in the past year, I've come upon clomipramine for OCD/Anxiety. It has all but abolished the horrible OCD/Anxiety along with clonazepam, 3mg t.i.d. but I'm tired all the time, I just want to sleep all day; my mind is relatively dull, and I can see sleeping my way into my sixties, if I don't get something that would give me some inertia. I have little/no ambition, or drive to do very much and as I'm on disability, I can just sleep all day and ponder what life would be like without the disease. But I had a good mind, got my ARCT in piano, I'd like to be a Nurse-Practitioner, but this is impossible being so dull and drowsy.
Anyway, is there any conceivable combo Clomipramine + SSRI or bromocriptine that may allow me to retain clinical gains, and start living again. Basically looking for something to give me my energy and creativity without the torment of Anxiety and OCD. Has anyone observed that their anxiety is aggravated by SNRI's or Stimulants. I cannnot tolerate any stimulants, On Ritalin I displayed bipolar symptoms, Dexadrine made me extremely anxious, as did provigil.
My psychiatrist has noted that noradrenergic medications cause an increase in anxiety for me. Does anything strike you that might help with energy/cognition, I found all SSRI's to be stimulating, to the point where I couldn't sleep, which is why I'm somewhat interested in some combination of SSRI + Clomipramine. The SSRI's alone helped for 4 months, then did little for my anxiety, but it's hard to compare because while on the SSRI's I was in university school, under a good deal of pressure – now on clomipramine, I have no significant commitments. I came off clomipramine cold turkey three days ago, and I’m starting to get anxious, I feel this forboding brewing, I think I’ll go back on it tonight. Thank’s Michael,, also I understand if your busy, catching up on what your illness has taken from you, and can’t answer.
Ben Je te souhaite toutes reussites avec parnate.
Posted by cubbybear on March 11, 2005, at 3:17:30
In reply to Re: Ame » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ed_uk on March 10, 2005, at 12:45:19
> Lol, you seem to have been keeping up with plenty of other things.
>
Would someone tell me what this "lol" stands for, that is infecting everyone's E-mail like a virus?cubbybear
Posted by up'n'down on March 11, 2005, at 3:24:37
In reply to Re: Kind of a downer » ed_uk, posted by Ame Sans Vie on March 10, 2005, at 11:50:19
> > >I'll announce it in Admin and/or Social when I change it
> >
> > No! Don't change it, it's a cool name, I like it! Are you secretly French?
>
> lol, no, I'm "secretly" Texan, actually... or Pennsylvanian... or Californian... depends on whether one defines that sort of thing by birth (California), childhood home (Pennsylvania), or current residence (Texas). :-)
>
> I've just always been fascinated by languages and began to teach myself French at the age of 12, along with a multitude of other languages (e.g., Russian, Latin, Spanish, Italian, German, Kiswahili, Japanese, Mandarin, Arabic, Irish Gaelic) most of which I've sadly forgotten. My French is still pretty up to par, though, and currently I'm taking a step in another linguistic direction -- studying the evolution of the English language and learning the grammar and vocabulary of Chaucer's English (I've already gotten the pronunciation down -- *beautiful* language).
>
> I really like my name too, but it certainly doesn't reflect how I feel inside anymore... perhaps I should initiate a poll on Social? What do you think? :-)
>
> Of course, I'm also totally open to other suggestions, either in French or English that I could translate into French. :-)
>
> Take care,
> ~Michael
>
>
I like Will Shakespeare and the Elizabethan english [best known in the King James version of the Bible.]
When I see "sans," I think of Will's seven stages of man, the last of which he says we end up"...sans teeth, sans hair, sans everything."
Both of your names are intriguing, but the positive one probably would be most encouraging to those who are not doing so well, right now.:-) U'D
Posted by KaraS on March 11, 2005, at 4:06:00
In reply to what is this? » ed_uk, posted by cubbybear on March 11, 2005, at 3:17:30
> > Lol, you seem to have been keeping up with plenty of other things.
> >
> Would someone tell me what this "lol" stands for, that is infecting everyone's E-mail like a virus?
>
> cubbybear
LOL = laughing out loud
Posted by ed_uk on March 11, 2005, at 8:24:07
In reply to Re: what is this? » cubbybear, posted by KaraS on March 11, 2005, at 4:06:00
>Would someone tell me what this "lol" stands for, that is infecting everyone's E-mail like a virus?
Sorry :-S
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on March 11, 2005, at 8:36:45
In reply to Ame, Re: Clomipramine, sedation, anhedonia » Ame Sans Vie, posted by temoigneur on March 10, 2005, at 21:41:49
Hello,
>My psychiatrist has noted that noradrenergic medications cause an increase in anxiety for me.
That's intesting. Although the clomipramine molecule itself is predominantly serotonergic, desmethylclomipramine - an active metabolite of clomipramine, is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
-Ed.
Posted by cubbybear on March 11, 2005, at 9:12:54
In reply to Re: what is this? » cubbybear, posted by KaraS on March 11, 2005, at 4:06:00
> > > Lol, you seem to have been keeping up with plenty of other things.
H-m-m- You're very tactful. I guess you mean to ask if I've been living in a vacuum. Maybe so, but don't forget that I live in Asia where trendy E-mailspeak is not necessarily keeping pace with the Western world
Anyway, lol = laughing out loud? So, what letters would you use for the sarcastic/snide utterance, lots of luck?
> > >
> > Would someone tell me what this "lol" stands for, that is infecting everyone's E-mail like a virus?
> >
> > cubbybear
>
>
> LOL = laughing out loud
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by KaraS on March 11, 2005, at 14:45:01
In reply to Re: what is this? » KaraS, posted by cubbybear on March 11, 2005, at 9:12:54
> > > > Lol, you seem to have been keeping up with plenty of other things.
>
> H-m-m- You're very tactful. I guess you mean to ask if I've been living in a vacuum. Maybe so, but don't forget that I live in Asia where trendy E-mailspeak is not necessarily keeping pace with the Western world
> Anyway, lol = laughing out loud? So, what letters would you use for the sarcastic/snide utterance, lots of luck?
> > > >
> > > Would someone tell me what this "lol" stands for, that is infecting everyone's E-mail like a virus?
> > >
> > > cubbybear
> >
> >
> > LOL = laughing out loud
> >I think you meant this post for Ed instead of me.
Posted by up'n'down on March 11, 2005, at 23:36:25
In reply to what is this? » ed_uk, posted by cubbybear on March 11, 2005, at 3:17:30
> > Lol, you seem to have been keeping up with plenty of other things.
> >
> Would someone tell me what this "lol" stands for, that is infecting everyone's E-mail like a virus?
>
> cubbybearI was told it meant "lots of love." Am I a lettuce leaf-like green??? U'D
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