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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on August 20, 2005, at 0:31:26
Hey guys i have two questions,ill ask the first one alone.I know most people heard of the documented case of the woman who responded to wellbutrin and parnate,a typical NO NO,but tried anyway with success.This lead to a complete remission according to the documented case.
Well i have in my possesion wellbturin,but im hestiant to try it.In one way it makes sense cause parnate only works when it has a semi stimulant effect,which it now has nilch of.
In fact oddly enough every parnate dose is sending me to the nearest counch.Ive been using caffiene pills randomly to counteract but caffiene pills just arent healthy.
So before i decide to try this,im curious of any opinions,suggestions or comments,if anyone on parnate here would also consider doing this,or am i nuts.
P.s i had a total remission today on a specific combo so i might just hold off on the wellbutrin if this works again tommorrow.But since i do have the wellbutrin,id love some responses,thanks in advance!!!!
Posted by med_empowered on August 20, 2005, at 0:51:40
In reply to Maoi augment attempt, posted by willyee on August 20, 2005, at 0:31:26
Hmmmm....I think you'd be well advised to check with your doctor (or find another doctor) before attmepting to combine an MAOI with *anything* besides the glass of water you gulp it down with. I know docs can be major pains and can have their own agendas, but MAOIs are tricky, combos are even trickier, and the stakes are a lot higher than they are with other psychiatric drugs. Psychiatrists in particular can be un-helpful quite often, so maybe you could just go to a GP? I had a GP rx my psych. meds for while...I figured since they do all the real medical stuff anyway--blood pressure, blood tests, etc.--they might as well take care of the psychiatric meds. Good luck!
Posted by djmmm on August 21, 2005, at 13:52:25
In reply to Maoi augment attempt, posted by willyee on August 20, 2005, at 0:31:26
> Hey guys i have two questions,ill ask the first one alone.I know most people heard of the documented case of the woman who responded to wellbutrin and parnate,a typical NO NO,but tried anyway with success.This lead to a complete remission according to the documented case.
>
> Well i have in my possesion wellbturin,but im hestiant to try it.In one way it makes sense cause parnate only works when it has a semi stimulant effect,which it now has nilch of.
>
> In fact oddly enough every parnate dose is sending me to the nearest counch.Ive been using caffiene pills randomly to counteract but caffiene pills just arent healthy.
>
> So before i decide to try this,im curious of any opinions,suggestions or comments,if anyone on parnate here would also consider doing this,or am i nuts.
>
> P.s i had a total remission today on a specific combo so i might just hold off on the wellbutrin if this works again tommorrow.But since i do have the wellbutrin,id love some responses,thanks in advance!!!!As far as augmenting Parnate, I found that taking an extra 10mg for a couple of weeks helps...also, I have had success with Klonopin, and amino acids. I have also used DMAE and DHEA with great success.
Posted by willyee on August 21, 2005, at 16:42:08
In reply to Re: Maoi augment attempt, posted by djmmm on August 21, 2005, at 13:52:25
Thanks i read about the nutrients u mentioned,appreciate the response.
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 19:16:32
In reply to Maoi augment attempt, posted by willyee on August 20, 2005, at 0:31:26
Hi Willy
FWIW Chaiman MAO thought wellbutrin was awful.
But he's been very quiet on his Nardil.
What are you taking ATM?
Declan
Posted by willyee on August 21, 2005, at 19:42:06
In reply to Re: Maoi augment attempt, posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 19:16:32
Im on parnate apporx 20 mg with a 15 mg nardil tab.
Since adding the nardil i have absolutly NO anxiety at all,gone coput.Also zero side effects.
I dont know if ill tweak this meaning see if two nardil will go better than with just one parnate etc.Reason is this combo takes care of anxiety,and minor depression,but i am still craving a med to help me feel more *normal* its just lacking something its hard to explain.
I got a hold of wellbutrin,and one night after my parnate/nardil dose was over for the day i dident feel medicated and i felt like the welbutrin wouldent be a problem,so i took it,and i noticed a nice little stimulant effect,not too bad.But my combo is risky enough so i am not ready to add wellbutrin in lol.
As far as chairman,everyone is different,i lieraly cant stand carbergline,it kills my libido and makes me feel terrable.
Wellbutrin reminds me of modfanil,its simply a mild stimulant.
I know people think im crazy for taking parnate/nardil but its been 2 weeks now and aside from it not being great on depression,the combo is unbelivable for anxiety,wipes it out comptly.I just have some depression around but i have a sleep study comming up and im gonna dabble in some therapy to help me figure out and remind me just what it is im fighting for to get better for.
ATMParnate 20 mg/nardil 15 mg.........x 2 times a day.
Nuerotion 20 mg 2x a day.
Anxiety obolsete,still depression however.Mood feels very much stable the parnate nardil combo took away that DRIVE feeling that parnate gave that for me was too much.
Posted by Jedi on August 22, 2005, at 4:07:59
In reply to Re: Maoi augment attempt, posted by willyee on August 21, 2005, at 19:42:06
>Im on parnate apporx 20 mg with a 15 mg nardil tab.
Hey Willie,
Well, you've go more guts than me. I've used Wellbutrin with Nardil with no problem. I would not add it to the combo you are taking. Is this strategy documented somewhere? Have you tried a therapeutic dose of Parnate or Nardil alone? A safer option would be something like nortriptyline with Nardil. I've used that with no problem. Good luck and please be careful.
Jedi
Posted by willyee on August 22, 2005, at 15:18:53
In reply to Re: Maoi augment attempt » willyee, posted by Jedi on August 22, 2005, at 4:07:59
Ive dosed parnate every which way,ive done 30 mg daily,20 mg daily
Incremented up to as high as 80-90 mg daily alone,and alone parnate just isnt the med for me.
Id rather add to it and keep the parnate at a reasonable dose,which i am abme to do,not only that but parnate when it works,for ME works better at a normal dose,not higher.
I also dabbled in times of doseing etc.
I know its absurd but its actualy working fairly well,but other than how well its working which im trying to really feel out it feels safer and safer honestly i havent had a hint of interaction.Klonopin actualy is a lil more *uncomfortable* with parnate than nardil is.I tried to get "professional" help,3 docs in the area i went to never heard of parnate,and of course wont help me,the ones thats do r terrified of it,every one of them has a obbsession with anti-psych,,and want me on risperdone or something,i dont want my depression and anxiety treated with those drugs,they are for psychosis,they made me feel like a brain dead zombie.
I dont hear voice,halciunations or have a single symmptom that reasons a AP.I understand they r used off label but i dont want to,its like the docs dont seem to think i can have a opinion.
If there was a single promising med id get off parnate,but theres not,i mean effexor my god it killed me and i see the threads here.
So i will play hardball with parnate until that darn patch ever comes out.I honestly think my combo sounds worse than it is,for the first time in weeks since starting it i feel some form of stablitiy,and anxiety reliaf is very nice,again its just i dont know i dont feel quite ME.
Posted by ed_uk on August 22, 2005, at 16:06:27
In reply to Re: Maoi augment attempt, posted by willyee on August 21, 2005, at 19:42:06
>Since adding the nardil i have absolutly NO anxiety at all,gone coput.Also zero side effects.
Hey that's great :-)
Keep us updated.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Chairman_MAO on September 8, 2005, at 23:31:34
In reply to Re: Maoi augment attempt, posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 19:16:32
Nardil is working really well, except for one thing: sexual side effects galore. Arousal and orgasm affected severely, and sometimes my libido is dampened. However, given that I am 25 and taking dodder seed extract, epimedium, tribulus, and shilajit, the libido is adequate anyway.
I see my doctor tomorrow, and I am going to beg him to fix this problem. I have done an extensive amount of research, and I currently feel that a combination of a dopaminergic agent and bethanechol/neostigmine/etc (cholinergic/parasympathomimeticO will probably work. I have no idea why my initial spectacular success with cabergoline faded into nothingness; perhaps it is simply because I started it early in my nardil treatment, and now the sexual difficulties are primarily caused by a non-dopaminergic mechanism.
I actually have been thinking about trying wellbutrin with nardil, thinking perhaps Nardil's massive SE and GABA increase will counterbalance the extreme agitation it used to cause me. I am not optimistic about this, however; I have tried wellbutrin several times in the past, and always found it somewhat dysphoric, even on 40mg of Valium/day. Perhaps the phenelzine will change that though; hell, I can tolerate yohimbine now, and I could not before. I wish I could just take a little dextroamphetamine bid-tid, but I had a drug problem at one point in time and once they slap that label onto you, it's bye-bye benzos, stimulants, and effective sleep medications-even if the drug problem was an attempt to deal with the mental illnes and no longer there!
Another thing I'm looking into trying is either testosterone cream or testosterone propionate injections (125-250mg/wk). Too bad I'll have to get the latter from a PhD organic chem friend of mine instead of via Rx (most doctors won't tell you this but testosterone is basically THE antidote to most sexual dysfunctions, male or female).
Wilyee: I am glad you are having success with parnate + Nardil. Personally, I have always figured the combination would be extremely effective. Good max dosage levels to try would be 0.5mg/kg Nardil + 0.35mg/kg Parnate. Nardil's halflife is quite a bit longer than Parnate's, IIRC, so you do not have to dose it as often. Twice daily could do it, three times daily definitely. I have no idea why more doctors do not combine the two; Nardil's GABA transaminase inhibition balances out Parnate's stimulation very nicely. However, it may also alter the activity of phenelzine because I think one study in some rodent species showed that one or more (I forget which) phenelzine metabolitse were not formed if MAO-B was inhibited. If your anxiety ist aken care of by 15mg nardil on top of it, tho, that should work out ok.
I am VERY surprised that cabergoline killed your libido. That is HIGHLY atypical, to the point that I wonder if there isn't something endocrinologically awry with you. I am not saying that you should be alarmed, and I don't know it all, that's for sure, but I just don't see how that could kill libido.
My meds:
90mg Nardil (30mg tid)
16mg buprenorphine p.o. qhs
50mg hydrochlorothiazide po (if I don't take this I gain 7+lbs in water from the Nardil)Does ANYONE have experience with ANY antidotes to Nardil's sexually crippling effects that actually WORK? Even _60mg_ of Cialis on top of cabergoline with all the herbs I am taking did not work. alpha-Yohimbine + cialis + herbs works somewhat, but I hate yohimbine's side effects.
So, if anyone can suggest what to ask my doc for tomorrow, PLEASE, let me know!!!
Thanks!
This is the end of the thread.
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