![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 16:31:56
For 35+ years I have suffered episodic bouts with depression/anx and some OCD--repetitive/intrusive thoughts only. There have been significant periods of remission. Six years ago I had a bad time and gradually improved (lexapro, occasional klonopin, and some wellbutrin)and had almost 4-5 years with no significant problems. This most recent episode has been very difficult (many life changes along with the usual stuff)and have found an increasing reliance on klonopin for management. My physician is supportive (as is my CBT) of the klonopin. I am fighting it but taking it--part of it is my need to control and to not be dependent. I would be interested in knowing what non benzos you have found useful in managing long term anxiety. I am ready to rule out buspar as I tried it years and years ago. Any augmentation to ssris or novel pharmaceutical interventions--my pdoc is leary of neurontin and I have talked to her about pregabalin. Her response is she hates to be the first doc in the area to go off label. I believe she is very good, does listen and has degrees in both medicine and pharacolgy. I have used as much klonopin (.5 mg 1 time daily) in the last 2 months as I used in the preceeding 4-5 years.
Posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 16:40:35
In reply to Alternatives to benzos, posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 16:31:56
Forget to mention I am currently taking lexapro--experimenting between 10-15 or 20 mg doses.
Posted by bassman on May 17, 2006, at 17:09:49
In reply to Re: Alternatives to benzos, posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 16:40:35
I think you'll potentially do more harm to yourself by doodling with other meds. Benzos are safe and you know what? I'll bet you could withdraw from 0.5 mg Klonopin in 2 weeks with no withdrawal, so how really "dependent" are you? Some people couldn't withdraw from coffee in two weeks. I know what you mean by feeling dependent on the med, but it is "emotive" thinking (as the CBT guys like to call it)-doing what we want to rather than what makes sense. It's an old story, but if the meds seem to be working out, leave them alone. Best of luck!
Posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 17:19:32
In reply to Re: Alternatives to benzos, posted by bassman on May 17, 2006, at 17:09:49
to much sense--but then I start catastrophizing it--what if I need more and more, what if I can not get it--your talking to some one who quite smoking (2 pack a day) 35 years ago cold turkey because I was taking a class in behavior mod and realized I was not in control of my smoking, stopped drinking 6 years ago because I decided I had a drinking problem (no one else thought I did)and have only missed five days of running in over 30 years. I still would like to hear other's opinions. Looking for the magic combination. As you can guess my CBT is working on increasing my comfort with uncertainty Thanks fca
Posted by willyee on May 17, 2006, at 19:45:11
In reply to Alternatives to benzos, posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 16:31:56
I think you should come to terms and accept using a benzo before u do,if ur not already.You sound like u have serious doubts,how founded they are really there is no magic answer,u have strong feelings from the left and right.
Is it possable to treat anxiety without benzos,well listening to ur situation,stopping smoking on behavorial therapy alone,same as drinking,it seems very possable u can get by on therapy and possably herbs/nutrients.
As far as strong,life altering anxiety,i personaly dont believe there is a single alternative to benzos,now how u use it has a million options,which benzos,what does,how many times a day is optimal for you,on and on,this is something u find out.
But i believe the people aganist benzo use simply have not experieaced the type of anxiety that can have u feeling like ur on fire,the anxiety that makes u avoid people,avoid life.This is anxiety to ME is MORE DANGEROUS being left as so than any benzo use.
Some people can only take so much isolation,only so many tears can come out of a person,a person can only watch life from there window so long,then some people might act impulsivly,and that can range from binge illicit drug use,to viloent behaviour onto themselves,the results of severe anxiety non medication caused,is not mentioned on that benzo org site,they dont discuss about the people never touching a benzo who cant enjoy the pleasure of walking in the park on a sunny day,no they leave that out,conviently.
Last i think people comming off benzos forget something,i mentioned this before,but people comming off a benzo,who decide to do so cause they simply dont want to be on it,forget why they started it in the FIRST PLACE!You most likly are on a benzo cause ur anxiety was to an extreme that it caused u emotionol distress,so OF COURSE comming off it there is a extremly high probuability that not only will ur oringal anxiety resurface,but expecting it to be worse after having its treatment stopped isnt far fetched either.
You might have the people who come off and all of a sudden anxiety is gone,i dont know of this personaly,but more so since benzos or any med are not CLAIMED TO CURE anxiety one should not expect to come off them and not beging to see orignal symptoms re-emerge.
If you want to try non benzos,in addition to ur excersise program,and cbt therapy,some remedies include
over the counter.....L Theanine,
L- Taurine
Picamilion
Phenibutt
Kava kavaand im sure a bunch more.Also i read today,again,on my own suspicison,that excersise is not always the best for everyone.
Now let me explain what i mean,overall of course excersise,and healthy nutrition is a plus,HOEVER simply said in lamons terms strenous excersise releases an outpout of adrenaline,and it has been noted that this relieaf can be counter productive for SOME anxiety driven people,in their cases low impact cardio is advised,such as swimming.
i personaly lift weights,my bench is at 300 now,i work woth that,and i have to slowly build up to it,and it dirves my adrenaline sky high,i make sure i take my meds AFTER i have cooled down,taking my meds before a workout only for myself result in wasted medication as that powerful surge of adrenaline wipes the therputic effect right away
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 20:15:32
In reply to Re: Alternatives to benzos, posted by willyee on May 17, 2006, at 19:45:11
Willyee that was a through and great and acurate answer. Love Phillipa
Posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 21:21:15
In reply to Re: Alternatives to benzos, posted by willyee on May 17, 2006, at 19:45:11
helpful and challenging--BTW, quit smoking because it scared the sh*t out of me that I was not in control of my own behavior. I was prepared to be late for a test on Behav. Mod because I started to pull off the expressway to get cigarettes. Who was running my life. Additional thoughts on benzos much appreciated fca
Posted by Jost on May 17, 2006, at 21:43:45
In reply to such thoughtful answers--reassuring, posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 21:21:15
Maybe you're letting your need to control things, and not be dependent, control you. So you could think of taking benzos as a way to break your addiction to the illusion that you are in control.
Don't have to go cold turkey on the illusion, but maybe at least challenge the belief. Taking benzos when your anxiety becomes really disturbing would then be breaking a type of dependence.
Jost
Posted by Jost on May 17, 2006, at 22:12:09
In reply to Alternatives to benzos, posted by fca on May 17, 2006, at 16:31:56
The reason(s) I say that (about challenging the belief) are that benzos might really help you; it's possible to know before you've gotten really dependent, that you're reaching the point where you mighr become so; and you've shown great tenacity and ability stop doing things in the past.
I take xanax fairly often, some days more than others, some days not at all. --I don't feel "dependent," in the negative sense. Rather I feel that I'm trying to keep relatively sane and taking the best steps I can to stay on an even keel.. I sympathize with hating to have take stuff, but it's a compromise that might be worth it.
Jost
Posted by fca on May 18, 2006, at 10:37:02
In reply to Re: Alternatives to benzos--the reason I say that, posted by Jost on May 17, 2006, at 22:12:09
all of you--and perhaps I should listen--you are all quite correct that part of this is a control thing and a real fear of dependency--uncertainty, uncertainty,uncertainty--learning to accept it and realize the inevitable reality of it. Thanks Much
This last episode has really caused me to look at myself--I am only beginning to realize how much I fled from uncertainty and was seeking confirmation over the things I wanted to be certain. Since they are almost always things I thought I had control over, and really did not involve others, I never really got feed back on it. I would bet if you asked my closest colleagues and friends they would never describe me as wanting control or certainty. The invisible life we often have Thanks fca
Posted by bassman on May 18, 2006, at 11:04:18
In reply to There is a pretty consistent message here from all, posted by fca on May 18, 2006, at 10:37:02
We all (desperately) want control over our lives, certainty and security. It's just that Life provides none of them, unfortunately. We make things worse when we pretend we are in control, are secure, and have certain futures. Nah.
Posted by fca on May 18, 2006, at 15:49:13
In reply to Re: There is a pretty consistent message here from all, posted by bassman on May 18, 2006, at 11:04:18
the nature and consistency of all of your responses--she got a big smile on her face, raised her fist in the air and said "yea". So much for trying to find certainty, if only it was that easy. Thanks to all fca
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.