![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by River1924 on May 25, 2006, at 3:58:23
Botox Appears to Ease Depression Symptoms
By Shankar Vedantam
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 21, 2006; A09Kathleen Delano had suffered from depression for years. Having tried psychotherapy and a number of antidepressant drugs in vain, she resigned herself to a life of suffering.
Then she tried Botox, the drug that became a rage a few years ago for smoothing out facial wrinkles.
In 2004, her physician injected five shots of the toxin into the muscles between Delano's eyebrows so that the Glenn Dale woman could no longer wrinkle her brow. Eight weeks later, according to a unusual study published this month, her depression had lifted.
"I didn't wake up the next morning and say, 'Hallelujah, I am well, I am healed,' " she said in an interview, but she noticed changes. "I found myself able to do the things I hadn't been doing. I feel I broke out of the shackles of depression to be in the mood to go out, to reconnect with people."
The pilot study of 10 patients is the first to provide empirical support for what a number of clinicians say they have noticed anecdotally: People who get their furrowed brows eliminated with Botox (botulinum toxin A) often report an improvement in mood.
Until now, the assumption was that they were just feeling better about their appearance. But the new study by local dermatologist Eric Finzi suggests that something else may be at work. Finzi found that even patients such as Delano, who were not seeking cosmetic improvement, showed a dramatic decrease in depression symptoms.
"Maybe the frown is not just an end result of the depression; maybe you need to frown in order to be depressed," Finzi said in an interview. "I don't think it has anything to do with making you look better. These patients were not coming to me for Botox; they were coming because I was offering a new treatment for depression."
Some patients in Finzi's study were receiving other treatments for depression; Finzi required that there be no change in those treatments for three months before he injected the Botox.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/20/AR2006052000979.html
Posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 10:32:58
In reply to Botox for depression? Bizarre..., posted by River1924 on May 25, 2006, at 3:58:23
I didn't read the article, but I have noticed in myself that a furrowed brow is usually a sign of me feeling low, or stressed. When I am really relaxed, the forrow goes away and I just feel better. It's like tensing your body up vs. not tensing it up. One produces a sort of fight or flight expense of energy and the other just rides the ride of life and is much more laid back. Just food for thought
blessings
mary
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2006, at 20:01:20
In reply to Re: Botox for depression? Bizarre..., posted by heaven help me on May 25, 2006, at 10:32:58
Botox injections paralyze the muscles so how can something that is only surface skin affect your depression. It makes absoulutely no sense to me. Only if the person had a huge issue with the frown lines and being gone felt better. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2006, at 20:07:01
In reply to Re: Botox for depression? Bizarre..., posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2006, at 20:01:20
And the injections have to repeated every three months it's ridiculous in my opinion. Love Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on May 26, 2006, at 0:13:12
In reply to Re: Botox for depression? Bizarre..., posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2006, at 20:07:01
I don't necessarily buy this, but there have been some studies which show that using the muscles required to smile, whether someone intends to smile or not, can improve mood. One way this was shown, which is part of what's questionable imo, is to have someone hold a pencil between their teeth. This uses the same muscles as smiling, and the person often reports an improved mood after a short time. Of course, this might be because it's a really silly thing to do and not because of the muscles.
So to take it to Botox, preventing frowning and perhaps "forcing" smiling might have a similar effect if the smiling muscles are stimulated.
Again, I'm not sure I buy it.
gg
Posted by Iansf on May 26, 2006, at 2:12:16
In reply to Re: Botox for depression? Bizarre..., posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2006, at 20:01:20
> Botox injections paralyze the muscles so how can something that is only surface skin affect your depression. It makes absoulutely no sense to me. Only if the person had a huge issue with the frown lines and being gone felt better. Love Phillipa
There are at least two ways it could make sense.
One possibility is a feedback loop. You feel depressed and frown, and your mind eventually makes a connection between being down and frowning. So if you're not frowning, your mind assumes you're not depressed. And voila, you're not depressed.
The other possibility is that botox actually has antidepressant properties, which is not such a stretch. For many people (myself included) novocaine has an antidepressant effect, so why not botox?
I don't know that either of these possibilities is true, only that they're possibilities.
Posted by Jost on May 26, 2006, at 7:16:50
In reply to Re: Botox for depression? Bizarre..., posted by Iansf on May 26, 2006, at 2:12:16
I tried some cognitive/behavioral therapy and the therapist suggested (among other things) trying to smile artificially. When asked how, she said, just literally move your mouth mechanically into a slight smile. By raising the edges.
I'm not sure it works unless you get into the spirit of it, and try to actually smile a little mentally with the physical smile.
However, a lot of facial expressions' connections to emotions are either hard-wired or something close to that, which is why even newborns respond more and differently to some facial expressions. Plus, over time the muscle memory and association must be very strong.
There's also the feedback look of how people respond to you. If you look angry, people will react differently--if you don't, they might be more receptive, therefore engaging in more positively-toned interactions.
I could see a logic in the effect, although I'm not sure it would be such a strong one, because anger or frustrations use lots of facial muscles. If they could surgically implant a smile on your face, though, that might work--
Jost
Posted by helpme on June 30, 2006, at 13:53:12
In reply to Re: Botox for depression? Bizarre..., posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2006, at 20:01:20
Why so bizarre? I tried it once and it was the best 300$ I ever spent. My "neutral" face went from "frowny/worried/looking like a breakdown coming" to "neutral". I looked better! I felt better! I felt friendlier and more confident-and people reacted to me way differently!!!! They approached me much more often, were more receptive to my conversation efforts, and I was far more sociable as a result. People smiled at me on the street and even strangers said hello. I had a lot more fun! It was miraculous. Like it or not, the fact is people want to seek out and interact with happy people, and avoid those who are depressed or in crisis. We like to think otherwise, but most people have low tolerance for and don't want to deal with our poor moods- which can be a drag and even contageous. Not to mention it makes us feel even more shunned, perpetuating the problem. And looking natural? Even my psychiatrist never guessed- he just commented, "So the new prescription seems to be kicking in?" Next time I can pay, I'm going back again for more. So- roughly 100$ per month. The injections last about 3 months. Each time you go back you need less because the frowny muscles atrophy or retrain- depending on your choice of words. Pain? No- they use a numbing cream. Frozen face? No- not with a legit doctor. Discuss with them. Frozen folks doctor shop and cheat (like some folks doctor shop and load up on meds...) And it's subtle- takes about a week to gradually "kick in". People just think you got some rest. Also- ask for "diluted" shots- where they mix the botox with water. It's bulkier, but spreads over a greater distance and is the smoothest, most natural result possible. (You do look like you have 5 oddly placed mosquito bites for about an hour though until the liquid is absorbed.) But please, go to a real doctor, not to a dentist or to some cosmetic spa. The administrator has to have a very good understanding of the intricate muscles of the forehead to place injections precisely and naturally. They should examine you and your movements carefully and make little marks for shot placement. One size does not fit all.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.