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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by med_empowered on November 18, 2006, at 0:10:55
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH., posted by notfred on November 17, 2006, at 14:48:40
look--if you have $$$ to pay for brain damage, then you have $$$ to first try to work *with* your brain to make your life better.
I'm not trying to preach or anything, but psychosurgery is **incredibly** risky and it isn't always beneficial. Its also irreversible--keep in mind that with all this talk of "reduing anxiety" or "lessening depression" what's happening is *deliberate infliction of brain damage*. Yes, the techniques are less barbaric than the old days of ice pick lobotomies, but the point remains--whether you're using an ice pick or gamma radiation or a scalpel, the brain is being deliberately destroyed. They are not making you feel better, they are just destroying parts of your brain that feel bad.
Please reconsider. Try logotherapy--"Man's Search For Meaning". Try supplements. Go on a vacation. Buy yourself something fun. Join a church. Just don't do this to yourself--its irreversible. Yes, you may be sad, but being sad is part of being human...crippling your brain doesn't just "reduce depression" it reduces your humanity.Please--try something else.
Posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 2:56:54
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH., posted by notfred on November 17, 2006, at 14:48:40
Psychosurgery is legally practiced in controlled and regulated U.S. centers, or in Finland, Sweden, United Kingdom, Spain, India, Belgium and Netherlands. In France, 32 psychosurgical operations were made between 1980 and 1986 according to an IGAS report; about 15 each year in the UK, 70 in Belgium, and about 15 for the Massachusetts General Hospital of Boston.
In Spain only one Psychosurgeon makes suregeries of this kind, Dr. Burzaco, in this Hospital:
http://www.mutuaterrassa.es/castella/index.htm
And after your psychiatrist referrals you to the psychosurgeon then you must fulfill the follow points:
Approaches of the patients' selection.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inclusion approaches:
Diagnose of certain Obsessive-compulsive Dysfunction, with diagnostic operative (CIE-10 or DSM-IV) approaches. (I fullfil it)
Duration of the superior illness to 5 years. (13 years of illness)
The dysfunction causes a subjective suffering to the patient that values as invalidating. (Of course)
The dysfunction causes an objetivable reduction in the family, social or labor life that is valued as invalidating. (I almost can't exit home)
Failure of the therapeutic previous intents, or, serious intolerance of the secondary effects of the treatments. Valued according to approaches of therapeutic sufficiency. (I will see it in the next 8 weeks)
Presence of a wrong diagnose, if he is not carried out the intervention. (I think I fulfill it)
The patient accepts and he gives the informed consent. (Of course)
The patient accepts to participate in the program evaluation post surgery. (Yep)
The patient accepts to participate in the post surgery program of rehabilitation. (Yep)
The psychiatrist that remits the patient accepts his responsibility in the post surgery and long term handling of the patient's following. (Let's see)
Exclusion approaches:
Inferior age to 20 years or superior to 65 years. (I am 31)
Presence of prescribe-surgical cerebral pathology. (p.e. he/she atrophies cerebral). (No)
He suffers a pathology it prescribes that it can complicate the treatment, or the execution capacity and pursuit of the same one substantially, or to unchain adverse serious effects. (I am not sure but I think that not)
He suffers of a psychiatric bigger pathology (p.e.: of the Axis I the DSM-IV) that can complicate the treatment, or the execution capacity and pursuit of the treatment substantially, or to unchain adverse serious effects, just as: A C.I. under; Organic cerebral Psycho syndrome; Alcoholism; Abuse of substances, etc. (Never)
Presence of associate dysfunctions of personality and that they can be valued as relative Contraindications according to approach of the Committee. Especially:
A) Personality Disorders of the Group A:
Paranoid personality disorder. (CIE-10: F60.0) (DSM-IV: 301.0) (No)
B) Personality Disorders of the Group B:
Antisocial personality disorder. (CIE-10: F60.2) (DSM-IV: 301.7) (This is not Social Anxiety is another disorder)
Borderline personality disorder. (CIE-10: F60.31) (DSM-IV: 301.83) (No I have agoraphobia and social anxiety not this)
Histrionic personality disorder. (CIE-10: F60.4) (DSM-IV: 301.50) (No)
-------------------------------------------------
Greetings. lukeds.
Posted by linkadge on November 18, 2006, at 9:57:44
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH. » notfred, posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 2:56:54
I'll do it for half that price. (Offer expires Nov 30, 2006)
Linkadge
Posted by notfred on November 18, 2006, at 11:53:40
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH. » notfred, posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 2:56:54
So do you think just because you made it through a simple checklist that the end result will be psychosurgery ?
Posted by notfred on November 18, 2006, at 12:01:09
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH. » notfred, posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 2:56:54
Failure of the therapeutic previous intents, or, serious intolerance of the secondary effects of the treatments. Valued according to approaches of therapeutic sufficiency. (I will see it in the next 8 weeks)
Just an 8 WEEK med trial ending in failure does not qualify you for psychosurgery, if that is all.
Posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 20:11:25
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH., posted by linkadge on November 18, 2006, at 9:57:44
-I'll do it for half that price. (Offer expires Nov 30, 2006)
-Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 21:52:35
In reply to Dr.Bob this guy deserves to be blocked. Read it., posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 20:11:25
Lukeds that's just Link's humor. He's an okay guy. Love Phillipa ps he didn't mean it at all
Posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 22:39:50
In reply to Re: Dr.Bob this guy deserves to be blocked. Read it. » lukeds, posted by Phillipa on November 18, 2006, at 21:52:35
Okay. Let's do humor.
Linkagde why don't you take a "ice pick" and put it into the nose of your mother, and introduce it very deep with a hammer? But use it with all your strength, like if you were to crush the head of George Dubya Bush.
With humor. lukeds.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 18, 2006, at 22:53:51
In reply to Dr.Bob this guy deserves to be blocked. Read it., posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 20:11:25
> this guy deserves to be blocked.
I'm sorry if you felt your situation wasn't being taken seriously, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceAnd if you'd like to help enforce these policies, please see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#help-enforce
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by deniseuk190466 on November 19, 2006, at 8:49:31
In reply to To you Linkagde with humor. :), posted by lukeds on November 18, 2006, at 22:39:50
Lukeds,
I understand why you feel desperate enough to try this but wouldn't you be better trying something like Deep Brain Stimulation first?
At least that is not irreversible or so I've read.
Denise
Posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 9:09:10
In reply to Re: please be civil » lukeds, posted by Dr. Bob on November 18, 2006, at 22:53:51
I apologise for the comment if it made you feel insulted, that was not my intention.
We understand that you're probably in a lot of pain, but without telling us the extent of your treatment history, theres not a lot we can recomend.
Psychosurgery is drastic, exhausting all medication possabilities is your first best bet.
Like has been noted above, it is reserved for the absolute end of the line for many reasons. Other forms of surgery just as VNS and DBS are preferable as a they don't destroy brain tissue.
Its not an exact science, so they could wipe out everything but the part of the brain that is causing your problems.
Linkadge
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 19, 2006, at 12:40:34
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 9:09:10
Posted by notfred on November 19, 2006, at 12:41:24
In reply to About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH., posted by lukeds on November 16, 2006, at 20:39:16
http://www.brainphysics.com/surgery.phpRemember -- psychosurgery is brain surgery. Typically doctors will refuse to operate unless the patient has failed several lengthy attempts at medication (at the full dosage) and many months of intensive cognitive-behavioral therapy. Psychosurgery should be considered as a last resort -- but it should be considered as an option if nothing else is working.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2601/is_0011/ai_2601001138Candidates for cingulotomies or other forms of psychosurgery undergo a rigorous screening process to ensure that all possible non-surgical psychiatric treatment options have been explored. Psychosurgery is only performed with the patient's informed consent.
Posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 13:22:16
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 9:09:10
I see now how my statement could have been taken as an insult (ie. I don't like you, so I'll perform brain surgery on you for cheap.)
Thats not what I meant at all, rather I was more joking about how it would not be a good idea for me to perform brain surgery. (Ie there are some things that you don't want done discount.)
(Ie. how buying no name toilate paper is a good way to save money, but going diving with a no name shark cage is not a good idea.)
I know, I am over anyalyzing, but I did not intent for it to be a personal insult.Linkadge
Posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 21:04:06
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by linkadge on November 19, 2006, at 9:09:10
> I apologise for the comment if it made you feel insulted, that was not my intention.
>
> We understand that you're probably in a lot of pain, but without telling us the extent of your treatment history, theres not a lot we can recomend.
>
> Psychosurgery is drastic, exhausting all medication possabilities is your first best bet.
>
> Like has been noted above, it is reserved for the absolute end of the line for many reasons. Other forms of surgery just as VNS and DBS are preferable as a they don't destroy brain tissue.
>
> Its not an exact science, so they could wipe out everything but the part of the brain that is causing your problems.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>I have a several mental illness, which one of the symptons is to be hypersensitive to the words that people say to me, so when I read your post I felt insulted cause you made a joke over my situation that is severe and dramatical.
lukeds.
Posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 21:15:29
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this from MGH., posted by notfred on November 19, 2006, at 12:41:24
>
> http://www.brainphysics.com/surgery.php
>
> Remember -- psychosurgery is brain surgery. Typically doctors will refuse to operate unless the patient has failed several lengthy attempts at medication (at the full dosage) and many months of intensive cognitive-behavioral therapy. Psychosurgery should be considered as a last resort -- but it should be considered as an option if nothing else is working.
>
>
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2601/is_0011/ai_2601001138
>
> Candidates for cingulotomies or other forms of psychosurgery undergo a rigorous screening process to ensure that all possible non-surgical psychiatric treatment options have been explored. Psychosurgery is only performed with the patient's informed consent.I understand that is very dangerous, but there are times that I want to kill myself, I have even decided the place to commit the suicide, so sometimes, I have two options:
Try that my psychiatrist referral me to psychosurgery (And I know that it is very difficult that the psychiatrist first and the psychosurgeon accepts to do it), or commit suicide.lukeds.
Posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 21:18:18
In reply to Re: To Lukeds, posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 20:55:18
>I understand why you feel desperate enough to >try this but wouldn't you be better trying >something like Deep Brain Stimulation first?
May you put a link to a web where I can find information of this kind of treatment?
lukeds.
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2006, at 21:43:12
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this » notfred, posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 21:15:29
I'm sorry your in so much pain. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on November 19, 2006, at 21:45:58
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this » notfred, posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 21:15:29
> I understand that is very dangerous, but there are > times that I want to kill myself, I have even
> decided the place to commit the suicide, so
> sometimes, I have two options:I am sorry that you feel that way at times. This must be very difficult to endure. You will find others here who have thoughts of suicide, too. Some have had successes with meds.
What have your med experiences been ? Thoughts of uicide and other negative thinking can be treated with meds, that is the first line treatment. It seems best to exhaust them all, as they are reversible. Therapies exist to learn skills to cope with the negative thoughts or can get at the core reasons, if they exist, that cause these thoughts.
Posted by stargazer on November 19, 2006, at 22:07:06
In reply to Re: To Lukeds » deniseuk190466, posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 21:18:18
Here is a link to clinical studies for any medical condition known to man. Just type in either depression, deep brain stimulation, etc. to find a study for the procedure.There is also a website for the implantable stimulator which may help you research this.
I saved them for future use myself. My theory was that if I needed something else besides meds, I would not have ECT but I might has this procedure.
Stargazer
Posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 23:21:26
In reply to Re: To Lukeds/Clinical studies, posted by stargazer on November 19, 2006, at 22:07:06
Thank you Phillipa, deniseuk, notfred, stargazer for your help, and to linkadge for be sorry for his post.
It is very interesting the post of stargazer.
I will investigate if it is possible to receive this treatment in my country, Spain, because in the link, the treatment is only available in the US.
Also still there is the ECT, that it is available in my country. So I will ask my Psyc about this, tomorrow Tuesday, that I have a citation with him.
lukeds.
Posted by sdb on November 20, 2006, at 16:34:11
In reply to Re: To Lukeds/Clinical studies, posted by stargazer on November 19, 2006, at 22:07:06
>
> Here is a link to clinical studies for any medical condition known to man. Just type in either depression, deep brain stimulation, etc. to find a study for the procedure.
>
> There is also a website for the implantable stimulator which may help you research this.
>
> http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct
>
> http://www.cyberonics.com/
>
> I saved them for future use myself. My theory was that if I needed something else besides meds, I would not have ECT but I might has this procedure.
>
> StargazerThats a link of deep vagus nerve stimulation from the Mayoclinic (physicians at Mayo receive a fixed salary)
http://www.medicaledge.org/2006july-2.html
www.mayoclinic.org
This is probably offered in your country too.
Have you taken all med combinations?
Did you change your pdoc several times?I believe you. I take you seriously.
Le deseo mucha suerte
sdb
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 20, 2006, at 17:19:25
In reply to Thank you to all for your help., posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 23:21:26
Deep brain stimulation, Vagus nerve stimulation, transcranial magnetic stimulation, acupuncture
all of these technologies are available to you, and you can always decide to take out your cingulate at a later date.
DEFINITELY think about ECT, I know one guy who had partial remission of devastating depression, and the remission lasted 3 years (he got a lot of work done, but now he's sick again) At least he can go back in for more ECT treatment.
best of luck to you,
remember that depression can affect your decision-making abilities. Things might not be as desperate as they feel. Finally, I'm really sorry you're hurting, and you feel like there's so little hope. I know that in the end you and your doctors will try your best to get you back on track to feeling well.Take good care,
-Li
Posted by linkadge on November 20, 2006, at 19:29:13
In reply to Re: About psychosurgery. I received this » notfred, posted by lukeds on November 19, 2006, at 21:15:29
What makes you so pessimistic about the possability that a different medication or combination of medications will help?
Have you tried alternatives like inositol augmentation of SSRI's.
I agree that depression typically puts the individual into a position of "all or nothing type of thinking" but for you to think that psychosurgery is your only option is incorrect.Linkadge
Posted by lukeds on November 20, 2006, at 23:17:03
In reply to Re: To Lukeds/Clinical studies }} Lukeds, posted by sdb on November 20, 2006, at 16:34:11
> Thats a link of deep vagus nerve stimulation from the Mayoclinic (physicians at Mayo receive a fixed salary)
>
> http://www.medicaledge.org/2006july-2.html
>
> www.mayoclinic.org
>
> This is probably offered in your country too.
>
> Have you taken all med combinations?
> Did you change your pdoc several times?
>
> I believe you. I take you seriously.
>
> Le deseo mucha suerte
>
> sdbThank you sdb.
I will talk today Tuesday with my psychiatrist about vagus nerve stimulation and if there is offered in my country.
> Have you taken all med combinations?
I am with this severe mental illness for 13 years ago, I have taken nardil, paxil, Luvox, Prozac, Effexor, xanax, xanax xr, klonopin, trazodone, and many more.
I am not taken all med combinations, but I must have taken more than a half of all the combinations.I am now since 5 weeks with 100mg of Anafranil, 6mg of Xanax xr, 3mg of Klonopin and for sleep 50mg of Trazodone and 2 pills of clornetiazol.
> Did you change your pdoc several times?
I have changed 15 or 20 times. But I think that with the psych that I am now there is still a hope for me. He did something that the others psychs don't do almost never give me his mobile phone number and his e-mail direction, for cases of emergency, and I have used both three times due the changes in my symptons during the treatment, so I like this medic, he cares about his patients.> Le deseo mucha suerte
Gracias, la necesito y mucho.
Greetings. lukeds.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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