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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dapper on December 11, 2007, at 2:20:54
I would like to get my blood work done and get readouts on my cortisol, thyroid, and testosterone levels. For those of you who are well versed in this, what kind of range should I be looking to fall into with these three groups? If I don't fall into the 'normal' category on any given test, what should I think about taking to get within the appropriate range?
Posted by Phillipa on December 11, 2007, at 11:43:07
In reply to Cortisol, thyroid, testosterone, posted by dapper on December 11, 2007, at 2:20:54
Dapper only one I know is the thyroid TSH new ranges l-2. I'd love to know what costisol levels should be as my endo took one reading but should be an injection into Iv and then see how the adreanals react or a 24hour saliva test. Testosterone don't know. Good luck. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on December 11, 2007, at 19:35:33
In reply to Cortisol, thyroid, testosterone, posted by dapper on December 11, 2007, at 2:20:54
> I would like to get my blood work done and get readouts on my cortisol, thyroid, and testosterone levels. For those of you who are well versed in this, what kind of range should I be looking to fall into with these three groups? If I don't fall into the 'normal' category on any given test, what should I think about taking to get within the appropriate range?
I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but I do visit forums to see what other people and experts say. Mercury toxic folks have all these problems. Here's what they do...
First, realize lab tests are just a basic overview, but in no way give a definitive picture. The bottom line is, what are your symptoms. Many people who have had apparently normal lab results but still had plenty of symptoms, and a doctor that refused treatment due to normal labs, well these people treated themselves and got a whole lot better. For example, just because you have a normal amount of T3 floating around in you does not give you any clue as to whether the receiving receptor is getting enough of it.
For hypothyroid symptoms, people use T3, T3+T4, or Armour Thyroid. Most docs give T4 in the assumption it will convert to T3 properly. This often does not give desired results.
For hypoadrenal function, to raise cortisol people use adrenal cortex extracts and/or licorice root. Docs who really know what they are doing routinely prescribe physiological replacement doses of cortisol via oral hydrocortisone in doses of 5mg to 20mg per day. This has minimal impact on adrenal function, but dramatically improves symptoms. Docs are scared of it because of the known bad side effects of hydrocortisone...except those side effects they are thinking of are at much higher doses, far higher than phsyiological replacement doses.
Testosterone I don't know much about. It can be boosted orally or through shots by prescription. It can also be boosted by various libido enhancing herbs such as tribulus. DHEA can boost testosterone, but I do not believe it is nearly as safe or free of side effects as websites claim. Safe doses are in the 5mg to 10mg per day range, unless a lab test clearly shows DHEA to be very low to begin with.
These kinds of things are pretty much out of the ballpark for most docs. A great many people who go these routes and get improvements or cures do it with their own research and their own choices of treatments. A doctor is guaranteed to take lots of money, but if your lab results are fairly normal, most of them will shrug off your symptoms as something else and not even give you a trial of what you think you need.
Also keep in mind each lab has their own scale of what is considered "normal". And these normal ranges are quite wide. Say for example your lab test shows normal but on the lower end of normal, well, the doc is going to say your're normal. When in reality it could be that for you and your unique biochemistry, that number really needs to be in the high normal range or even totally out of the normal range completely.
Symptoms are your best guide. Lab results help to clarify the picture. Use them both but do not rely on either one alone.
Posted by dapper on December 12, 2007, at 2:40:18
In reply to Re: Cortisol, thyroid, testosterone, posted by bleauberry on December 11, 2007, at 19:35:33
I liked the info you gave, but it leaves me with further questions. If I wanted to get exact numberical readouts within any given category on a blood test, how do I get that done? Can you simply ask to be given the exact readout, so you can further research alternative treatments? Who do you see clinically, or as a qualified specialist, when you get the readouts and want to try to take that path to remission? I see several people state in posts that if you don't respond to AD's and you keep trying one after the other with little success, that you should look into other underlying problems. My question stems from wanting to know how one would go about to test these common, but underlying, problems.
Posted by bleauberry on December 12, 2007, at 19:38:03
In reply to Re: Cortisol, thyroid, testosterone)bleauberry, posted by dapper on December 12, 2007, at 2:40:18
> I liked the info you gave, but it leaves me with further questions. If I wanted to get exact numberical readouts within any given category on a blood test, how do I get that done? Can you simply ask to be given the exact readout,
Yes. Just ask for a copy of the lab results. By law all you have to do is request it. It will give the exact number and show where it falls in the so called normal range. Then you can analyze the numbers a little more critically than a doctor. Websites are even available to help you know what each thing is and what it means.
so you can further research alternative treatments? Who do you see clinically, or as a qualified specialist, when you get the readouts and want to try to take that path to remission?You don't want a qualified specialist. They are too limited. You want somehow to partner with you, monitor you, and give you space to make your own decisions under their watchful eye. That means a GP who is open minded and willing to learn along with you as you both embark on the journey. Hard to find. But if you screen a couple dozen on the phone, one will be right. An alternative or integrative doctor would be best, but make sure he is one that is not deadset in his own ways. You want someone flexible.
I see several people state in posts that if you don't respond to AD's and you keep trying one after the other with little success, that you should look into other underlying problems. My question stems from wanting to know how one would go about to test these common, but underlying, problems.
Most tests are available online without a doctor. They send you the test kit, you do it at home, then send the samples to the lab. If a lab requires a doctor permission, then that's easy enough.
Top things to test for:
Adrenal Stress Index: A saliva sample of cortisol taken 4 times during a 24 hour period. The results show how your cortisol secretion compares to average healthy patterns. In depression, cortisol is either way too high, way too low, or its peaks and valleys are in the wrong places during the day and night. Inexpensive and easy to treat. When you get to that point, we can go over the needed supplements.
ELISA delayed food intolerance test. Something you ate yesterday makes you feel really bad today or tomorrow. You eat the same thing again today...the cycle goes on and on and you have no clue it is that bread or that glass of milk or those potato chips or whatever that are poisoning your brain day in and day out. This is so common it's scary. The most common culprit is gluten. It is estimated 15% of the population are intolerant of it, and yet it takes an average of 10 years for a diagnosis to be made. In the meantime, the patient has suffered through antidepressants, antianxieties, pain meds, insomnia meds, gastrointestinal meds, without much luck.
Doctors Data lab hair sample. Tests essential metals, heavy metals, and minor metals. The exact readings are not important. It is the pattern that is important. It will tell you a number of things, such as whether you are toxic with mercury, lead, or arsenic. Hidden toxicities are more common than realized. They wreak total havoc on the brain and glands.
Great Smokies stool sample. Shows intestinal problems, malabsorption, indigestion, bad bacteria overgrowth. All lead to leaky gut, or allowing small food particles directly into the blood making you feel like absolute depressed crap. These things are closely tied with metal toxicity or hypocortisolism.
Thryoid complete panel with T3, T4, and thyroid antibodies.
I would wager a bet you would come out with at least a few dramatic deviations on these lab tests. Some you suspect as bad might be just fine. Some you suspect are just fine might actually show to be major problems.
There are other lab tests. But the above ones cover the majority of the ballpark. Most would be out of pocket expenses. Insurance might help if they were doctor ordered. But plan on spending some money, probably in the $1000 to $2000 range. Roughly 8 to 10 pdoc visits. You have to ask yourself, what is going to give you a better handle on your condtion and future, 10 visits looking at a pdoc's desk or a handful of targeted lab tests.
Posted by dapper on December 14, 2007, at 16:13:34
In reply to Re: Cortisol, thyroid, testosterone)bleauberry, posted by bleauberry on December 12, 2007, at 19:38:03
thats some awesome info, and im gonna try out a lot of those options...thanx for that input
Posted by florence on December 15, 2007, at 5:13:19
In reply to Re: Cortisol, thyroid, testosterone)bleauberry, posted by dapper on December 14, 2007, at 16:13:34
check out: Dr David Derry; Dr Peter Whybrow; Dr Ken Blanchard; Stop the thyroid madness website; (they also discuss adrenal issues)
Mary Shoman's "about" thyroid website- excellent interviews and info on latest thyroid info..
Alternative Thyroid website.
PB's thyroid files-
Elizabeth Vliet's book Screaming to be Heard: Hormone Connections Women Suspect and Drs Continue to Ignore????Thyroid book by Drs Shames.
Psychiatric Manifestations of Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (article u can google)
+++ Make sure they check the RIGHT antibodies: if you have Hashimoto's Autoimmune Thyroiditis- the thyroglobulin Abs do no always show up. Mine Never Did......It took yrs for me to get diagnosed....TPO abs or sometimes called microsomal antibodies.
The 2nd leading cause of high cholesterol is thyroid disease.
FDA has recently found potency problems with all generic synthetic Thyroxine (T4) meds. ...
Testosterone may vary according to your age and gender....... I agree with cortisol tested by saliva 4 times a day... Canary Club has good "package" rates....Check out Natural Thyroid Group on Yahoo if interested......florence
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>thats some awesome info, and im gonna try out a lot of those options...thanx for that input
Posted by brooke484 on December 15, 2007, at 13:53:55
In reply to Re: Cortisol, thyroid, testosterone)bleauberry, posted by florence on December 15, 2007, at 5:13:19
Excellent info. I love Mary's site. Before I knew I was hypothyroid, my cholesterol was 230. As soon as I started medication it dropped to 160.
brooke
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