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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shasling on April 10, 2009, at 14:57:05
I posted this once before i believe.I use Parnate in high doses since im a big guy and have built tolerance.
One thing i notice the official data sheets dont mention,as well as speaking to a tech rep at the company itself is this....
No secret parnate is infamouus for causing insomnia.
Its a problem im battling now.So heres my question,you have taken your days parnate,you then have taken the sleep aids you might be trying at the present time.Still you do not sleep,so 9 am you have been up all night,and although not asleep pretty dulled up from the sleep meds.
So now do you skip the morning dose and continue to try and sleep,possably adding additonal sleep meds,....or do you take your parnate dose?
The reason i ask this is because personaly i find the formula of no nights sleep + heavy sedation + a now ingested dose of parnate on top of this a factor that can lead to med induced psychosis or maniac behavior.I personaly skip the dose or i look like a zombie talking heads off and acting a fool.But what i feel isnt important,what is important is this can be a very real and normal occuring problem which i believe should be addressed on the official data sheet of the product.
Personaly i warn anyone who hasnet slept,but feels sedated for A being up all night,and B simply having sedatives in them to be careful when choosing to still dose your normal morning dose.Logic itself tells you that you wont respond to that morning dose had you slep the full night.
Posted by desolationrower on April 14, 2009, at 0:58:31
In reply to Serious issue to me, posted by shasling on April 10, 2009, at 14:57:05
worry less about what to take in a situation like that, and worry more baout getting a good sleep aid...
-d/r
Posted by SLS on April 14, 2009, at 6:25:53
In reply to Re: Serious issue to me, posted by desolationrower on April 14, 2009, at 0:58:31
> worry less about what to take in a situation like that, and worry more baout getting a good sleep aid...
>
> -d/rI agree!
Insomnia, for some people, is just part of the deal. I went for nearly two weeks without sleep the first time I combined Parnate with desipramine. The combo worked for depression, but the insomnia did not remit. We just attacked the insomnia with the same vigor as we did the depression. Be aggressive. I had success with combining Halcion with Ativan. You might do well with Ativan or Ambien or Lunesta. If not, try Seroquel. Just don't give up on the full dosage of Parnate and a regular dosing schedule.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by desolationrower on April 14, 2009, at 14:08:26
In reply to Re: Serious issue to me, posted by SLS on April 14, 2009, at 6:25:53
scott why do you think i i don't notice stimulant effect from parnate or get insomnia
-d/r
Posted by SLS on April 14, 2009, at 15:40:02
In reply to Re: Serious issue to me » SLS, posted by desolationrower on April 14, 2009, at 14:08:26
> scott why do you think i i don't notice stimulant effect from parnate or get insomnia
Either you have been desensitized from previous drug exposures, or perhaps you are not yet at your therapeutic dosage. A third possibility is that you have been in a hypernoradrenergic state (or perhaps a hypercortisolemic state) for so long, that your postsynaptic NE receptors have downregulated, leaving you with a diminished acute stimulatory response, but not necessarily an impediment to future antidepressant response.
The very first time I tried Parnate in 1982, I did not experience insomnia. It was only when desipramine was added that I suffered total insomnia. It was also that combination that brought me to full remission for many months. If my doctor at the time hadn't been so "smart", I would never have remained depressed for the last 22 years... Long explanation.
- Scott
Posted by desolationrower on April 15, 2009, at 1:55:32
In reply to Re: Serious issue to me » desolationrower, posted by SLS on April 14, 2009, at 15:40:02
> > scott why do you think i i don't notice stimulant effect from parnate or get insomnia
>
> Either you have been desensitized from previous drug exposures, or perhaps you are not yet at your therapeutic dosage. A third possibility is that you have been in a hypernoradrenergic state (or perhaps a hypercortisolemic state) for so long, that your postsynaptic NE receptors have downregulated, leaving you with a diminished acute stimulatory response, but not necessarily an impediment to future antidepressant response.
>
> The very first time I tried Parnate in 1982, I did not experience insomnia. It was only when desipramine was added that I suffered total insomnia. It was also that combination that brought me to full remission for many months. If my doctor at the time hadn't been so "smart", I would never have remained depressed for the last 22 years... Long explanation.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>thanks scott. any time you want to speculate on me more i'll be grateful. i guess my thought was the adhdi gives such low catecholaminergic tone in the pfc that a weaker stim like parnate never really gets past the stage of alpha2/d1 receptors. it seems odd it wasn't a therapeutic dose, since it works so well for depression. i think there is a lot of COMT in the pfc.
-d/r
This is the end of the thread.
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