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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pedr on November 30, 2009, at 11:28:06
Hi,
I'm on 75mg of Nardil and I've experienced a sequence of varied side-effects pertaining to exercise. First off it was mainly hypotension related stuff e.g. dizziness, blinding white light, ringing in the ears and feeling half asleep. I have managed to control this (or it's diminished) by increasing my salt intake and liquid intake before exercise, to raise blood pressure.However, since about a month ago, my muscles feel like they are made of lead when I exercise. I have no power from the get-go and they are fairly achy and painful. I can run for about 3-4 minutes before the nerve/muscular aching in my legs, stomach and lower back becomes too painful. I have barely even increased my breathing rate at this point since I'm pretty fit.
Does anyone know what's going on? Is there anything I can do? In soccer, opponents are running past me like I'm stuck in mud or something :(
Pete
Posted by Phillipa on November 30, 2009, at 12:15:18
In reply to Leaden, achy muscles on Nardil, posted by pedr on November 30, 2009, at 11:28:06
This may sound silly but have you asked you doc? Looked up all side effects of nardil? I'm sorry. Phillipa
Posted by pedr on November 30, 2009, at 12:22:04
In reply to Re: Leaden, achy muscles on Nardil » pedr, posted by Phillipa on November 30, 2009, at 12:15:18
yeah I had a full panel and check-up a few weeks ago as it happens. He doesn't know anything about Nardil, mind so maybe it's worth asking my PDoc. Thanks.
Posted by bulldog2 on November 30, 2009, at 15:34:08
In reply to Leaden, achy muscles on Nardil, posted by pedr on November 30, 2009, at 11:28:06
> Hi,
> I'm on 75mg of Nardil and I've experienced a sequence of varied side-effects pertaining to exercise. First off it was mainly hypotension related stuff e.g. dizziness, blinding white light, ringing in the ears and feeling half asleep. I have managed to control this (or it's diminished) by increasing my salt intake and liquid intake before exercise, to raise blood pressure.
>
> However, since about a month ago, my muscles feel like they are made of lead when I exercise. I have no power from the get-go and they are fairly achy and painful. I can run for about 3-4 minutes before the nerve/muscular aching in my legs, stomach and lower back becomes too painful. I have barely even increased my breathing rate at this point since I'm pretty fit.
>
> Does anyone know what's going on? Is there anything I can do? In soccer, opponents are running past me like I'm stuck in mud or something :(
>
> PeteBlood tends to pool at the bottom of the legs on maois. This is from the hypotensionn side. That will cause your legs to feel leaden.
Posted by pedr on November 30, 2009, at 15:59:00
In reply to Re: Leaden, achy muscles on Nardil, posted by bulldog2 on November 30, 2009, at 15:34:08
> Blood tends to pool at the bottom of the legs on maois. This is from the hypotensionn side. That will cause your legs to feel leaden.
According to the below, the pooling happens when you stand up from sitting, not when you're exercising. Also, the effects of the pooling are the usual dizziness, visual and aural etc. symptoms, not a leaden feeling.
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec03/ch023/ch023c.html.Also, my stomach muscles and lower back all feel the same leaden way, not just my legs.
Posted by bleauberry on November 30, 2009, at 17:59:26
In reply to Leaden, achy muscles on Nardil, posted by pedr on November 30, 2009, at 11:28:06
This is a very difficult subject and I have never encountered anyone with an explanation or a fix. I think it has something to do with the nervous system, which is no help to us. Hypotension is a maybe a reasonable player, but I doubt it alone explains the whole spectrum of the leaden leg syndrome. I'm not even sure it is a player. I have had, and have known people that had, extremely low blood pressure but did not have the leaden leg thing.
Some people are sensitive to sulfur compounds. Nardil and Parnate have a lot of sulfur. Sulfur tends to mobilize and stir around stored heavy metals such as lead and mercury from fat tissues. A very common symptom of that is leaden leg muscles.
People with Lyme disease report so often of strange leg things...leaden, weak, crawling, tingling, whatever, weird stuff, varies widely from person to person...that is usually not evident or not a problem until some other substance from a food, diet, herb, or medicine provokes it. No one has a clue what's going on, except that it is something in the nervous system.
Sulfur kills many pathogenic organisms. A common symptom of die-off is weak legs.
No doubt there is some adapting going on within the adrenal system, the pituitary system, and who knows what else. These things take months to adapt and adjust, with bizarre unexplainable symptoms in the transition.
We have not a clue what these meds are doing with levels of dietary minerals and salts or water. Just another mysterious variable.
I do not have experience or expertise with the MAOIs, just the knowledge of what users have reported here over the years. I think the general consensus is that whatever weird side effects there are, usually are mostly minimal or gone somewhere in the 9 month to 18 month time period.
I don't know if you've been on it that long.
Posted by bulldog2 on December 5, 2009, at 12:10:27
In reply to Leaden, achy muscles on Nardil, posted by pedr on November 30, 2009, at 11:28:06
> Hi,
> I'm on 75mg of Nardil and I've experienced a sequence of varied side-effects pertaining to exercise. First off it was mainly hypotension related stuff e.g. dizziness, blinding white light, ringing in the ears and feeling half asleep. I have managed to control this (or it's diminished) by increasing my salt intake and liquid intake before exercise, to raise blood pressure.
>
> However, since about a month ago, my muscles feel like they are made of lead when I exercise. I have no power from the get-go and they are fairly achy and painful. I can run for about 3-4 minutes before the nerve/muscular aching in my legs, stomach and lower back becomes too painful. I have barely even increased my breathing rate at this point since I'm pretty fit.
>
> Does anyone know what's going on? Is there anything I can do? In soccer, opponents are running past me like I'm stuck in mud or something :(
>
> PeteI started parnate several days ago and having some pain issues from it. My legs and hips are arthritic and generally achey. Recently had a hip replacement. Since starting the parnate the legs feel heavy and the pain is even worse.
The pooling can still be a factor even when exercising. I've heard others complain of leaden legs. While the pooling is the worst when laying or sitting it can also still exist to some extent while standing. Now that would affect the legs but not the rest of the body. I feel very achey from the hips down.
This is the end of the thread.
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