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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by shasling on January 29, 2006, at 10:47:31
In reply to Re: ... Old and New Nardil (warning: very long) » shasling, posted by Tomatheus on January 28, 2006, at 22:14:49
Thank you - that is incredibly helpful. I appreciate it
Posted by WeeWilly on January 29, 2006, at 11:59:23
In reply to Re: ... Old and New Nardil (warning: very long), posted by shasling on January 29, 2006, at 10:47:31
It likely will not work but I am going to try inserting each pill of Nardil in a little wad of chewing gum. If the enteric coating allows for more of the Nardil to reach the intestines maybe the gum will have this ability too. What do think? Like they say " The proof in the pooding is in the tasteing". I will let you know how I respond to this method. Best wishes.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 29, 2006, at 13:28:19
In reply to Re: ... Old and New Nardil (warning: very long), posted by shasling on January 29, 2006, at 10:47:31
Posted by Tomatheus on January 29, 2006, at 13:42:26
In reply to Goofy method to simulate enteric coating, posted by WeeWilly on January 29, 2006, at 11:59:23
WeeWilly,
If you think that the idea of using PlasminPlus capsules as an enteric coating for the new Nardil is goofy (which seems to be what you're suggesting, but I'm not completely sure), then that's your opinion, and I think you're entitled to it. But considering my response to Nardil and the hypotheses that I and others have come up with concerning the differences between the two formulations, I think there's more than a slim chance that an enteric coating might be just what I need to get the Nardil to work right. If it doesn't work for me, then it doesn't work for me. But from my perspective (and in my case), I don't see why it's not worth trying. As far as I know, Michael Bell is the only person who's tried using PlasminPlus capsules to enterically "coat" Nardil, and he had some success with it, based on his message. I personally think that it's about time that someone else try his approach. If others don't want to do it, then that's fine with me. I certainly respect anyone's decision not to try something like that. But I find it highly unnecessary, inappropriate, and childlike that you've instead chosen to mock me in the way that you did.
Tomatheus
Posted by gibber on January 29, 2006, at 14:03:55
In reply to Re: Goofy method to simulate enteric coating » WeeWilly, posted by Tomatheus on January 29, 2006, at 13:42:26
He didn't mock you Tomatheus. WeeWilly simply said he was going to entericly coat HIS Nardil with chewing gum. That's why he said it was goofy.
Posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2006, at 14:11:19
In reply to Goofy method to simulate enteric coating, posted by WeeWilly on January 29, 2006, at 11:59:23
Hi Willy
AFAIK, chewing gum cannot be digested. I don't think the Nardil would be able to get out!
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by WeeWilly on January 29, 2006, at 14:22:51
In reply to Re: Goofy method to simulate enteric coating » WeeWilly, posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2006, at 14:11:19
I certainly was'nt mocking anyone. Misunderstandings do happen. Thank you for your replies all. Best wishes.
Posted by WeeWilly on January 29, 2006, at 14:32:17
In reply to Re: Goofy method to simulate enteric coating » WeeWilly, posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2006, at 14:11:19
Howdy Ed
You could be right. Allthough I have had a habit of swallowing chewing gum ever since I was a little kid. I am 46 now and have never seen gum in my stool. Best Wishes
> Hi Willy
>
> AFAIK, chewing gum cannot be digested. I don't think the Nardil would be able to get out!
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ed
Posted by ed_uk on January 29, 2006, at 14:46:35
In reply to Re: Goofy method to simulate enteric coating, posted by WeeWilly on January 29, 2006, at 14:32:17
>......and have never seen gum in my stool
Me neither. It's probably hidden in there somewhere though!
I found this........
'What Exactly Happens to the Gum?
Chewing gum is made of either natural or synthetic materials (gum resin), preservatives, flavorings, and sweeteners. The body can absorb sweeteners, such as sugar, and they can add up to a lot of calories if you chew a lot of sugary gum. But the human digestive tract can't digest the gum resin. It's moved through the digestive tract by the normal pushing (peristaltic) actions of the gut. The gum's journey ends during a trip to the bathroom.'Ed
Posted by Tomatheus on January 29, 2006, at 15:40:28
In reply to Thank you Gibber, you got it exactly., posted by WeeWilly on January 29, 2006, at 14:22:51
WeeWilly,
I apologize for suggesting that you were mocking me. It was my impression that you were trying to portray the use of PlasminPlus capsules as an enteric "coating" as being no better than covering the "new" Nardil capsules with chewing gum. Considering that chewing gum cannot be digested at all (as Ed suggested) and that the PlasminPlus capsules are made using chemicals that *do* allow them to disintegrate (in the small intestine, but not in the stomach), there are obviously some differences between the two. So, thinking that you were trying to portray the two "methods" as essentially being the same, I responded to your post in the way that I did.
I can see now that you were just throwing out a "goofy" idea and that you weren't meaning to suggest that the use of the PlasminPlus capsules is equally as goofy as what you were jokingly suggesting (although I don't deny that the PlasminPlus idea sounds kind of goofy and is extremely unorthodox). I was reading something into your post that simply wasn't there.
Please accept my apologies.
Tomatheus
Posted by WeeWilly on January 31, 2006, at 0:20:18
In reply to Re: Thank you Gibber, you got it exactly. » WeeWilly, posted by Tomatheus on January 29, 2006, at 15:40:28
I tried this method because it was simple and I thought if it is helpfull to get more of the new Nardil to the intestines undisturbed, why not. I have detected little pieces of the brightly colored chewing gum in my stool. So the Nardil is getting out of the gum wad somewhere in my digestive tract. I can't say for sure that it's not getting out in my stomach, but it is likely staying intact longer than without the gum. I am haveing to reduce my daily dose of Nardil. For a few days I was up to 90mgs. Tomorow I will reduce to 30mgs. You never no with these medications, there could be some other reason for increased side effects makeing me need to reduce the dose. I will keep you posted. Best wishes.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 31, 2006, at 1:24:50
In reply to Goofy method is working, posted by WeeWilly on January 31, 2006, at 0:20:18
Ok, I've had enough this time. There's no way that you're being serious.
This board is for support and education, and I find your post neither supportive nor educational in any way. You're obviously just looking to provoke others, just as some others on this board have been doing lately. And even though some may disagree with this last statement of mine, there's no doubt in my mind that it's the truth. I think the amount of provocation on this board has reached an unhealthy level as of late, and quite frankly (but with all due respect to Dr. Bob and Gardenergirl), I'm tired of it.
Let's get back to support and education.
Tomatheus
> I tried this method because it was simple and I thought if it is helpfull to get more of the new Nardil to the intestines undisturbed, why not. I have detected little pieces of the brightly colored chewing gum in my stool. So the Nardil is getting out of the gum wad somewhere in my digestive tract. I can't say for sure that it's not getting out in my stomach, but it is likely staying intact longer than without the gum. I am haveing to reduce my daily dose of Nardil. For a few days I was up to 90mgs. Tomorow I will reduce to 30mgs. You never no with these medications, there could be some other reason for increased side effects makeing me need to reduce the dose. I will keep you posted. Best wishes.
Posted by WeeWilly on January 31, 2006, at 7:20:37
In reply to Re: Goofy method is working » WeeWilly, posted by Tomatheus on January 31, 2006, at 1:24:50
Tometheus, I don't really understand why you think I am not sincere. My struggle with depression and social phobia is not something I joke about. I am 46 and I have battled this condition all my life. I have empathy for all fellow sufferers.
Getting back to this gum procedure. I thought it might allow the Nardil to move futher down the digestive tract. It appears this is happening. There is no way to know where the Nardil tablet is escapeing the gum wad. How are you doing on Nardil? Like I said before in my last post, I took 90mgs for a few days before I tried the gum. Today I am reduceing to 30mgs. I am not sure the gum is responsible for this hopefully time will tell as I continue.
Best wishes
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2006, at 9:22:02
In reply to Re: Goofy method is working » WeeWilly, posted by Tomatheus on January 31, 2006, at 1:24:50
> Ok, I've had enough this time. There's no way that you're being serious.
Dinah here, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob.
Please don't jump to conclusions about others, or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Posted by Michael Bell on February 16, 2006, at 22:18:50
In reply to What's Different Between the Old and New Nardil?, posted by shasling on January 26, 2006, at 10:05:59
Hey folks, long time no see. Sometimes I peruse this board quickly to see what the topics are, and so I decided to respond to this one since it is an issue I have dealt with to a huge exent.
From the descriptions of others, research and my own experiences, I believe there are two problems with the new nardil as compared to the old:
1) new nardil is absorbed before it reaches the new intestine
2) even if new nardil does reach the new intestine, the absorbtion *rate* is off balance
That's why placing nardil in plasmin plus enteric tabs were only partially effective. yes, more phenelzine would likely survive the trip through the stomach, but once the enteric tab dissolved, the nardil itself won't be absorbed to the maximum level without an excipient to aid it.
The best excipients to aid absorption into the small intestine are sugar invert (a.k.a. honey) and ethanol (alcohol). Sugar is quite good, but the absorbtion rate, though high, is relatively slow.
As far as absorption into the small intestine, NOTHING beats alcohol. It's rate and level of absorption by the small intestine is extremely high. Obviously, I don't mean kick back shots of tequila, I'm talking mere drops of the substance.
Therefore mixing nardil with either honey or alcohol has been much more effective.
Posted by zonked on April 21, 2009, at 15:56:29
In reply to Goofy method is working, posted by WeeWilly on January 31, 2006, at 0:20:18
WeeWily:
Dunno if you're still watching these boards, but did your "chewing gum" method continue to work?
zonked
> I tried this method because it was simple and I thought if it is helpfull to get more of the new Nardil to the intestines undisturbed, why not. I have detected little pieces of the brightly colored chewing gum in my stool. So the Nardil is getting out of the gum wad somewhere in my digestive tract. I can't say for sure that it's not getting out in my stomach, but it is likely staying intact longer than without the gum. I am haveing to reduce my daily dose of Nardil. For a few days I was up to 90mgs. Tomorow I will reduce to 30mgs. You never no with these medications, there could be some other reason for increased side effects makeing me need to reduce the dose. I will keep you posted. Best wishes.
Posted by DebRose on July 23, 2009, at 0:15:10
In reply to Re: ... Old and New Nardil (warning: very long) » shasling, posted by Tomatheus on January 28, 2006, at 22:14:49
Tomatheus,
I don't know if you are still around to see this post, but if you are, I would be very interested to know if you gathered any more information on the topic? Also, do you know if there was ever a class action lawsuit filed against Pfizer for thier formulary change in 2003? If there hasn't been, there certainly should be and I would be interested in finding out how to go about organizing one!
Please email at debearwon@comcast.net
Thank you
Debrose
Posted by sheensmusic on July 9, 2010, at 5:32:42
The New Nardil has lost its kick and effectiveness and this thread is here to get peoples opinions on What other medicines can augment Nardil and bring it back to work more like the original version.. I have found Neurontin to be a great enhancer for the loss of anti anxiety effects from the new nardil and also social phobia as nardil and neurontin both effect gaba in the Brain. Also lamictal can help if your having Ups and Downs with the new Nardil......
Posted by sheensmusic on July 9, 2010, at 7:27:51
In reply to Old and New Nardil - Here's the difference, posted by Michael Bell on February 16, 2006, at 22:18:50
The New Nardil Has lost its kick basically in how it is metabolised because of its coating...Now it needs to be enhanced with other meds in order to get it back more like its originally formulation.. I have spent 16 years on Nardil and went thru its reformulation transition and the withdrawals when it lost effects in its new Formulation by Pfizer in 2003...
I have spent years trying add-On meds to test and manipulate nardil...
I also found that if you take 2 or 3 15mg tabs at night it will metabolize more and you will awake like if you were on the old nardil..
I am on 90mg a day and where it says take 1 tab six times a day..I found its better too take 2 in a.m. 1 in afternoon and 3 at night and it metbolizes more and effects you more like the old Nardil!!!!
Posted by sheensmusic on July 9, 2010, at 7:28:54
In reply to Re: Old and New Nardil - Here's the difference, posted by sheensmusic on July 9, 2010, at 7:27:51
New Nardil needs to be augmenting because of its loos in some of its specific benefits and effects when it was reformulated to generic!!! Here are the Cocktails that seem to work if you have had Anxiety resurface and or more ups an downs!
Neurontin at high dosages seems to be with the new Nardil great for suppressing Anxiety and for Social phobia.. Where the Old Nardil kicked *ss on SP and anxiety.. Now if you ad Neuron-tin in its more like the Original Nardil..
Lamictal in the mix can boost the antidepressant effects of the new nardil and level off mood swings..
Seroquel can help with sleep and also help level moods and enhance anti-depressant effects...
The New Nardil Has lost its kick basically in how it is metabolised because of its coating...Now it needs to be enhanced with other meds in order to get it back more like its originally formulation.. I have spent 16 years on Nardil and went thru its reformulation transition and the withdrawals when it lost effects in its new Formulation by Pfizer in 2003...
I have spent years trying add-On meds to test and manipulate nardil...
I also found that if you take 2 or 3 15mg tabs at night it will metabolize more and you will awake like if you were on the old nardil..
I am on 90mg a day and where it says take 1 tab six times a day..I found its better too take 2 in a.m. 1 in afternoon and 3 at night and it metbolizes more and effects you more like the old Nardil!!!!
Posted by sheensmusic on July 9, 2010, at 14:40:38
New Nardil needs to be augmenting because of its loss in some of its specific benefits and effects when it was reformulated to generic!!! Here are the Cocktails that seem to work if you have had Anxiety resurface and or more ups an downs!
Neurontin at high dosages seems to be with the new Nardil great for suppressing Anxiety and for Social phobia.. Where the Old Nardil kicked *** on SP and anxiety.. Now if you ad Neuron-tin in its more like the Original Nardil..
Lamictal in the mix can boost the antidepressant effects of the new nardil and level off mood swings..
Seroquel can help with sleep and also help level moods and enhance anti-depressant effects...
The New Nardil Has lost its kick basically in how it is metabolized because of its coating...Now it needs to be enhanced with other meds in order to get it back more like its originally formulation.. I have spent 16 years on Nardil and went thru its reformulation transition and the withdrawals when it lost effects in its new Formulation by Pfizer in 2003...
I have spent years trying add-On meds to test and manipulate nardil...
I also found that if you take 2 or 3 15mg tabs at night it will metabolize more and you will awake like if you were on the old nardil..
I am on 90mg a day and where it says take 1 tab six times a day..I found its better too take 2 in a.m. 1 in afternoon and 3 at night and it metabolizes more and effects you more like the old Nardil!!!!
ALL and the application of Lyrica..May Help like Neurontin because its Neurontins big Sister and more potent....but Neurontin seems to work more rapidly......
Posted by Lamdage on July 10, 2011, at 19:47:54
In reply to Old and New Nardil - Here's the difference, posted by Michael Bell on February 16, 2006, at 22:18:50
> The best excipients to aid absorption into the small intestine are sugar invert (a.k.a. honey) and ethanol (alcohol). Sugar is quite good, but the absorbtion rate, though high, is relatively slow.
>
> As far as absorption into the small intestine, NOTHING beats alcohol. It's rate and level of absorption by the small intestine is extremely high. Obviously, I don't mean kick back shots of tequila, I'm talking mere drops of the substance.
>
> Therefore mixing nardil with either honey or alcohol has been much more effective.Micheal! A hint of dried honey powder as well as a hint of bioperine will be in my next batch of selfmade nardil! Question: how do i get Alcohol into my "formula"?? I mean it ll get wet wont it? Alcohol powder?...
Posted by deepreason on July 11, 2011, at 14:53:27
In reply to Re: Old and New Nardil - Here's the difference, posted by Lamdage on July 10, 2011, at 19:47:54
Crumble up some of those instant whisky cubes you see on star trek and other sci-fy programs. The ones that look like OXO's. ;)
Posted by Lamdage on July 12, 2011, at 7:49:14
In reply to Re: Old and New Nardil - Here's the difference, posted by deepreason on July 11, 2011, at 14:53:27
Dude.. im not soo much into star trek ;)
Posted by Cee on January 4, 2014, at 3:44:35
In reply to Re: Old and New Nardil - Here's the difference, posted by Lamdage on July 12, 2011, at 7:49:14
Take your double dose and put in one enteric capsule and see what happens
See the Nardil guy
This is the end of the thread.
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