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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 10:30:36
It would appear that I'm resilient and don't respond badly to stress. My cortisol response is normal. I respond well to SSRI's. I'm optimistic.
Well, my genotype self does anyway. My phenotype self is the exact opposite. My husband practically fell over laughing about my resilience and optimism.
I wonder if my actual self has to do with development then? A wash of cortisol in the womb?
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2013, at 12:01:25
In reply to I think I've lost my faith in genetics., posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 10:30:36
Do you mean you have overcome what in your genetics could cause other conditions? A bit confused. Phillipa
Posted by jane d on February 13, 2013, at 12:28:55
In reply to I think I've lost my faith in genetics., posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 10:30:36
> It would appear that I'm resilient and don't respond badly to stress. My cortisol response is normal. I respond well to SSRI's. I'm optimistic.
>
> Well, my genotype self does anyway. My phenotype self is the exact opposite. My husband practically fell over laughing about my resilience and optimism.
>
> I wonder if my actual self has to do with development then? A wash of cortisol in the womb?Wait! You're saying you're actually a bright and bubbly person who chirps optimistic platitudes at everyone you meet? And that you've been faking all this time? I feel so .... betrayed. :)
Seriously, I suspect it says more about the lack of sophistication of today's genetics knowlege than anything else. It's come so amazingly far in our lifetime that it's hard to remember how much we haven't figured out yet.
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 13:55:40
In reply to Re: I think I've lost my faith in genetics. » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2013, at 12:01:25
No, I just meant that the genetic tests seem to indicate that I am mentally healthy, resilient and optimistic. And that I respond well to SSRI's.
But I am not, and I do not.
Posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 13:57:20
In reply to Re: I think I've lost my faith in genetics. » Dinah, posted by jane d on February 13, 2013, at 12:28:55
I expect it does. But I'm disappointed. I expected more. :(
It's like everything else. I think something will hold answers, but so far it really hasn't.
Low expectations are the key to happiness.
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2013, at 21:23:16
In reply to Re: I think I've lost my faith in genetics. » jane d, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 13:57:20
How about realistic expectations? Phillipa
Posted by hyperfocus on February 14, 2013, at 11:56:26
In reply to Re: I think I've lost my faith in genetics. » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 13:55:40
>mentally healthy, resilient and optimist
> But I am notWhat do you think those words mean and why do you believe you're not those things? Do you believe in some St. Theresa of Suburbia who floats through life serenely, making all the right choices, doing all the right things, succeeding in being everything to everybody, never frightened or worried or lonely, with daily devotions to her Stairmaster and pilates?
Is developing depression or mental illness predicated on some sort of lack of mental fortitude or some character deficiency or spiritual desolation? Those soldiers who get back home from combat -- men and women at the apex of physical courage, self-sacrifice and dedication -- who develop PTSD, are they deficient in those things you list?
Who would you say in public life satisfies the criteria for those things? Is Rhianna mentally healthy? She's certainly successful, rich, on the cover of some magazine every week. I never heard of her ever being diagnosed with any kind of mental illness. What about Britney Spears -- is she more resilient and optimistic than you? What about Lindsey Lohan? Or Casey Anthony?
You have a family and a career and a home. You're obviously a caring person who tends to put the interests of others above you're own. What evidence are you using for diagnosing yourself as deficient in those things you list?
Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2013, at 12:18:30
In reply to Re: I think I've lost my faith in genetics. » Dinah, posted by hyperfocus on February 14, 2013, at 11:56:26
Sigh. I suppose I have achieved the most important things in life, so I wouldn't say I was a failure.
But resilient I am not. My office is still looking askance at me for sobbing (not crying, but sobbing complete with heaving gasps) about my computer repair problem. I'm fortunate to have people around me who are understanding when I melt down. But I do tend to get easily overwhelmed. Stress causes me all sorts of physical and mental problems. I started therapy when I was 13, I think, at which time they put me on Thorazine for a year. I still think that was overkill for severe anxiety.
I don't think I'm pessimistic, but I don't expect the best either. My perennial outlook is that things probably won't be as bad as your worst fears, but probably won't be as good as your hopes either. I assess birthday success by whether anyone died that day.
:)
Posted by hyperfocus on February 14, 2013, at 13:05:17
In reply to Re: I think I've lost my faith in genetics. » hyperfocus, posted by Dinah on February 14, 2013, at 12:18:30
> Sigh. I suppose I have achieved the most important things in life, so I wouldn't say I was a failure.
>
I wasn't even talking about what your achievements were. I was talking about what you believed in and what you consider important in life and where you find fulfillment.> But resilient I am not. My office is still looking askance at me for sobbing (not crying, but sobbing complete with heaving gasps) about my computer repair problem. I'm fortunate to have people around me who are understanding when I melt down. But I do tend to get easily overwhelmed. Stress causes me all sorts of physical and mental problems.
>
A lot of people are born neurologically hypersensitive to other people in their immediate environment. More focus is being placed on isolating and treating this kind of hypersensitivity as not simple fear and anxiety. Shyness and anxiety around other people have nothing to do with our general ability to cope with stress. Some people can face pretty much any adversity or crisis on their own but people saying or doing something minor to them makes them cry. When your child or dog gets sick at home do you break down and cry and not know what to do?Hypersensitivity has nothing to do with resiliency. Resiliency measures how well you can hold on to your core values and beliefs during adversity.
Was there ever a day when you decided: "I really don't need to work this hard, nobody will ever know the difference." Or "I don't need to worry about my mother or husband or family this much." Or "I've done enough, time for everybody to live their own life so I can have more free time for myself."
>I started therapy when I was 13, I think, at which time they put me on Thorazine for a year. I still think that was overkill for severe anxiety.
Anxiety in hypersensitive people is debilitating but this isn't the same as being deficient in something. To me it's the same principle as when ADD kids are told to do their homework without any TV or other people around and get called stupid or lazy or at best put on Adderall. As psychology and psychiatry develops, recognizing that there are neurological differences in people's brains that are not just deficiencies will be key in better helping a lot of kids like you.> I don't think I'm pessimistic, but I don't expect the best either. My perennial outlook is that things probably won't be as bad as your worst fears, but probably won't be as good as your hopes either. I assess birthday success by whether anyone died that day.
>
I think the truth is none of us can really look further ahead than that -- whether we will be alive the next day. People who believe their hopes have been fulfilled solely through their own efforts are naive at best and probably delusional. The things a lot of people hold on to and value in this world are not great candidates for sustaining optimism and resiliency.We don't have a lot of control over a lot of things -- not especially our genes or parents or where we're born or whatever. The thing we DO have control over is in what we believe and what we consider important and how we think of and treat others. I see a lot of people everyday who I know are mentally weak and selfish and nihilistic and will crack at the slightest hint that life isn't what they thought it was. From what you write about here I never considered you in that category.
Posted by SLS on February 14, 2013, at 13:48:02
In reply to Re: resiliency and optimism » Dinah, posted by hyperfocus on February 14, 2013, at 13:05:17
> I see a lot of people everyday who I know are mentally weak and selfish and nihilistic and will crack at the slightest hint that life isn't what they thought it was. From what you write about here I never considered you in that category.
How do you know that the people you categorize as being weak aren't actually quite strong? You don't know what they have been confronted with in life. Every man has his breaking point - even the "strong" ones. I am weak for waging an intense war against depression that has lasted for over 35 years. Who would know this unless I were to tell them? Even the strongest of people can be laid waste instantaneously by an acute episode of mental illness.
I'm sorry to be confrontational, but I don't think categorizing people as being either weak or strong is very productive. To me, this seems to be judgmental and wholly unfair.
I imagine I was born to be just as resilient as the infant laying next to me in the hospital. My mental illness has defeated me - not because it persists, but because I could not maintain the fierceness I once had, as I am now weary from waging the war necessary to survive. It has taken me awhile to recognize that my current uncharacteristic lack of motivation to engage in life is the manifestation of defeat. I have been weakened and no longer wish to push.
I am only now beginning to recover from defeat, thanks to the improvement in my condition afforded by biological treatment. It will be awhile before my core personality and fierceness regrow and become resources for resilience once more. I am fortunate that my metaprogramming remains largely intact so that I can teach myself how to function in society and once again self-actualize. It will be a slow process.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2013, at 14:51:59
In reply to Re: resiliency and optimism » Dinah, posted by hyperfocus on February 14, 2013, at 13:05:17
I certainly have my moments where will does not triumph over sloth, selfishness, and general lack of motivation. Far too many of them. I do keep *trying* to be better.
Posted by hyperfocus on February 14, 2013, at 21:53:27
In reply to Re: resiliency and optimism » hyperfocus, posted by SLS on February 14, 2013, at 13:48:02
lol the point I was making Scott is that people like you and Dinah are anything but weak or not resilient or not optimistic.
I see a lot of people who spend a great deal of their life worrying about the opinions and expectations of others and making choices as to a career and a mate and nearly every decision in life in compliance with these restrictions. What they believe in and consider worthwhile and fulfilling is as tenuous as air. The real meaningful things in life that are hard to get and not what everybody else desires and require a level of sacrifice and courage -- these are completely closed and opaque to them. If life is easy for you and you do nothing to improve yourself and others then this among many other things I consider mental weakness.
I consider nihilistic people who act as if fame, money, power, sex are the only things in life that should be worshiped and striven for. I don't like the fact that young women I know consider people like Rhianna to be a role model and crave what she has accomplished and adopt her attitude towards relationships and sex and drugs and her own body.
I see a lot of people who at the approach of even minor adversity abandon everything they believe in and everyone around them. They believe themselves entitled to lie and cheat and abuse and neglect everyone in their lives and do anything they can to cope with the fact that the world and other people and their own bodies and mind are not automatically programmed to give them what they desire their whole life. People who happen to achieve wealth or fame learn sooner or later that these things cannot insulate you from our innate fragility and tend to act this way it seems more than the lot of us crazies.
Then I see people who remain pretty much the same through whatever adversity they face life. People who still believe in the same things and care for and reach out and to try to help others despite their own tremendous struggles. The point I was making is that mental illness -- our emotional and cognitive sensitivities or deficits or damage -- has nothing to do with the true human qualities inside us.
> > I see a lot of people everyday who I know are mentally weak and selfish and nihilistic and will crack at the slightest hint that life isn't what they thought it was. From what you write about here I never considered you in that category.
>
> How do you know that the people you categorize as being weak aren't actually quite strong? You don't know what they have been confronted with in life. Every man has his breaking point - even the "strong" ones. I am weak for waging an intense war against depression that has lasted for over 35 years. Who would know this unless I were to tell them? Even the strongest of people can be laid waste instantaneously by an acute episode of mental illness.
>
> I'm sorry to be confrontational, but I don't think categorizing people as being either weak or strong is very productive. To me, this seems to be judgmental and wholly unfair.
>
> I imagine I was born to be just as resilient as the infant laying next to me in the hospital. My mental illness has defeated me - not because it persists, but because I could not maintain the fierceness I once had, as I am now weary from waging the war necessary to survive. It has taken me awhile to recognize that my current uncharacteristic lack of motivation to engage in life is the manifestation of defeat. I have been weakened and no longer wish to push.
>
> I am only now beginning to recover from defeat, thanks to the improvement in my condition afforded by biological treatment. It will be awhile before my core personality and fierceness regrow and become resources for resilience once more. I am fortunate that my metaprogramming remains largely intact so that I can teach myself how to function in society and once again self-actualize. It will be a slow process.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on February 15, 2013, at 12:26:43
In reply to Re: resiliency and optimism » SLS, posted by hyperfocus on February 14, 2013, at 21:53:27
I was thinking more globally.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on February 19, 2013, at 13:20:08
In reply to I think I've lost my faith in genetics., posted by Dinah on February 13, 2013, at 10:30:36
At least on one item.
Reading closer, it was only possible to have a better than normal response to antidepressants. Not a less than normal one.
This is the end of the thread.
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