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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 14:08:24
In reply to What constitutes shared information?, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 13:44:22
Lurps,
You have hit the nail on the head. I have had the exact same problems you are having/had. Things do get posted on abble which over time, someone can glean info about you. No doubt.
The things that have happened to me are proof.
>>>>>However, it's inappropriate to share that information that is contained in a private babblemail with the public world wide web via psychobabble channels.
>>>>>What I would be interested in knowing is whether a private babblemail communication from person A to person B should be communicated to person C, after person A makes it very clear that person B should not share person A's personal communication.
>>>>>Does that constitue a blockable offense? What about if person B has a pattern of this behavior. Don't worry LlurpsieNoodle. You can trust me [not to post this on psychobabble]. Can I trust person B not to pass this information onto person C? What about person D? E? F?
This has happened to me - you have every right to mad and angry and actually, enraged. Unfortunately, as far as I know - it is not a blockable offense. Posters can pass around other babblemails to other posters (& even SOLICIT!) other posters to get private communications.
In fact, someone can post personal info about someone IRL, as long as they aren't babblers. Doesn't seem fair, to give out personal info when you in fact are "anonymous". I'm pretty upset/sickened by the recent turn of events in my life & babble hasn't, nor will be, the same for me.
>>>>>In babble-world however, there is absolutely no justification for person B to tell others information about another person.
I totally agree.
>>>>>There are several reasons why person B should not tell person C private information about person A.
>>1) it compromises the trust that persons A and B have between one another
>>2) it compromises an agreement that babblemailers make via their participation in babblemail: that information shared in babblemail- no matter how innocent or trivial or irreleant or urgent or important - should never be posted on psychobabble boards.
>>3) if person A WANTS person C to know something personal about himself, then person A has the opportunity to tell persona C himself. There is no need for facilitation, no matter how "nice" it may feel to connect people who share something [personal and private] in common.
>>4) it compromises the trust that others have in person B. Once person B starts telling others personal information about person A, why would person B be trusted to keep anybody's information confidential?
I suspect there are many reasons why people feel compelled to share info that is not their own - including everything from innocent slips of the tongue to malicious revenge.
I am smarter and stronger despite all this. My PTSD has seriously been triggered - but I have some pit-bull lawyers to take care of those who continue to give me grief.
Babblers: be warned about seeming privacy and the myth of anonymity of the internet. Be careful of who you speak to and who you trust. Be careful about what you post and the info contained therein. I've been burned, others have been burned. The internet can be a tool or a weapon.
I am really sorry all this has happened to you - no one deserves that.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 14:26:31
In reply to babblers be warned, posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 14:08:24
I suppose the internet can be a tool and a weapon.
Personally I prefer to use it as a tool. I am capable of yielding it as a weapon.
But this is neither the time nor place for that.
I'm happy that you have some lawyers working for you.
I don't really see the need for lawyers in my particular circumstance. A gentle nudge from an administrator would do the trick.
But a stich in time saves nine. As a seamstress (see! that's personal information! or am I lying?) I know that once the seam starts unravelling it unravels in both directions.
I'd like to propose that information shared in Babblemails should not be passed on to others via babblemails. That doing so compromises others' safety.
If somepeople want to pass on private information via e-mails, that is outside the realm of babbleonia. Babblers be warned indeed.
OWCine, I'm so sorry that you have been violated. It is truly a horrible feeling to have your IRL identity known by people you don't trust. I'm glad that you have resources that you can use, like your pitbull lawyers to prevent further damage.
Thank you for your contribution to my thread. I think you understand.
Posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 14:35:10
In reply to Re: babblers be warned » one woman cine, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 14:26:31
>>>I'd like to propose that information shared in Babblemails should not be passed on to others via babblemails. That doing so compromises others' safety.
There is actually no way to stop this. At all. That's the warning. The only way to be absolutely safe is babblemail nothing of personal importance unless you are absolutely sure.
BTW, lawyers only got involved because it was RL, which is never, ever acceptable.
I hope your situation is cleared up soon.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 15:08:29
In reply to Re: babblers be warned » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by one woman cine on April 18, 2007, at 14:35:10
> >>>I'd like to propose that information shared in Babblemails should not be passed on to others via babblemails. That doing so compromises others' safety.
OneWomanCine,
several months ago, I decided not to get involved in changing babble policy. I found that it was just too frustrating. That was when Dr. Bob actually checked the admin board on a fairly regular basis, too. I decided that there was no point to me trying to change the situations when I *personally* was not affected.Now I have been personally affected. Am I scared? not really, because I have the tools to deal with this babblemess.
So, I make a proposal to extend a rule that was designed to keep our personal info out of the public eye. The rule I would like to extend is that personal information (specifically information that one has asked the other interloctur NOT to pass on) not be passed on.
I found out that my personal information had been passed on. I don't know why anyone would do such a thing. There are so many motivations ranging from an innocent slip of the tongue to something much more malignant.
A simple apology would make me feel a lot better.
I have tried to elicit an apology before. But there was denial of the offense. Sometimes people don't realize the consequences of their actions until they are laid out crystal clear. Sometimes people don't realize that despite their best intentions they caused the other person to hurt. Sometimes it takes time to allow the anger of being accused of something to subside to recognition that one has participated in a hurtful behavior.
For my part, I would have liked to keep this grievance off the boards. I have tried different ways of dealing with this on my own, and using the resources that babble has for when one poster hurts another.
Here I am. airing grievances. yep.
but it's not too late. A simple apology would go a long way to my feeling better about the whole situation. There may be other people who deserve an apology too, as has come to my attention recently.
Posted by scratchpad on April 18, 2007, at 15:22:44
In reply to What constitutes shared information?, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 13:44:22
I'm going to ask a "duh" question - did you notify the administration about the babblemail issue?
I thought (and I trained to be a deputy for over a year, twice!) that it was against the site rules for someone to pass on personal information about another poster.
My understanding about babblemail civility guidelines is that they follow the same ones as the rest of the site. Dr Bob would need to have the electronic thumbprint of the message (I personally have been fingerprinted, but have never tried to get a print off an electronic message).
I post this in the dim hope that Dr Bob isn't aware of the breach of privacy that happened to you.
take care,
Scratchpad
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 15:28:10
In reply to Re: What constitutes shared information? » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by scratchpad on April 18, 2007, at 15:22:44
> I'm going to ask a "duh" question - did you notify the administration about the babblemail issue?
you betcha. all the administrators I could.
> I thought (and I trained to be a deputy for over a year, twice!) that it was against the site rules for someone to pass on personal information about another poster.
I guess I thought so too.
> My understanding about babblemail civility guidelines is that they follow the same ones as the rest of the site. Dr Bob would need to have the electronic thumbprint of the message (I personally have been fingerprinted, but have never tried to get a print off an electronic message).I have sent Dr. Bob copies of offensive emails, with fingerprints. It's his job to read them and verify their accuracy.
> I post this in the dim hope that Dr Bob isn't aware of the breach of privacy that happened to you.I have received no acknowledgement from Dr. Bob that he recieved my complaints about the babblemails.
>
> take care,
> ScratchpadYou too scratchie :)
-Ll
Posted by scratchpad on April 18, 2007, at 16:09:42
In reply to Re: What constitutes shared information? » scratchpad, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 15:28:10
I mean, the guy might be busy, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be doing his job here.
:-(
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 16:16:18
In reply to Well, that's not right! » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by scratchpad on April 18, 2007, at 16:09:42
I feel the same way. I've been asking for some acknowledgement of this matter for over two weeks now. It's inappropriate to say what the matter is in the public arena.
I still cross my fingers though. Optimism?
I dunno.
I guess I have better things to do with my time than to get sucked into a babblemess. I push it onto someone else's plate for now.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 16:29:05
In reply to Re: Well, that's not right! » scratchpad, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 16:16:18
oh yeah. you forgot to remind me to take my klonopin, but I did anyways ;)
In the past, I would have taken matters into my own hands and done bad things. I think I have come a long way. Now I am patient. I have waited. I have been civil despite being hurt.
I took steps to protect myself when I felt most endangered. I communicated my grievances and stuck up for myself when in the past I would have just disappeared...
I don't feel like disappearing though. I feel like squeaking. Hear me the squeaking wheel
sqeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkk
And if I'm just a poor poster who's had too much dumped on me all at once, well that may be true. Wouldn't people who support me want to make things easier for me, not harder?
So many folks have and I am grateful for the support that babble gives. Support and safety.
Just trying to patch up a few holes in the safety net, that's all.
((((ScratchPad)))))
and other folks who are simpatico
and all the other folks who are endangered by this little hole in the safety net.
Posted by scratchpad on April 18, 2007, at 22:16:19
In reply to Re: Well, that's not right! » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 16:29:05
I emailed the Bobster and reminded him that he has an outstanding complaint that requires a response. We'll see if I have any currency with the Emperor. Not bloody likely, but perhaps the lad has forgotten. Benefit of the doubt and all that.
sp
Posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 7:57:57
In reply to Re: What constitutes shared information? » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by scratchpad on April 18, 2007, at 15:22:44
>>>>I thought (and I trained to be a deputy for over a year, twice!) that it was against the site rules for someone to pass on personal information about another poster.
See, now - I was told publicly on the boards by two posters that it is NOT against site guidelines to share babblemails with another poster (this was about a month ago) - that's it's perfectly OK and not violating any FAQ's or civility rules.
So, some people say it's OK, and other say it's not - is this a subjective rule or a hardandfast rule.
I'm very confused and angry that this is occurring - no matter to whom is being violated.
Posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 8:16:47
In reply to Re: babblers be warned » one woman cine, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 18, 2007, at 15:08:29
Sometimes apologies work, sometimes they don't - I wish I could be more forgiving - but it depends on the motivations.
I do hope this is cleared up soon.
Posted by scratchpad on April 19, 2007, at 8:27:47
In reply to now wait a minute! » scratchpad, posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 7:57:57
> >>>>I thought (and I trained to be a deputy for over a year, twice!) that it was against the site rules for someone to pass on personal information about another poster.
>
> See, now - I was told publicly on the boards by two posters that it is NOT against site guidelines to share babblemails with another poster (this was about a month ago) - that's it's perfectly OK and not violating any FAQ's or civility rules.
>
> So, some people say it's OK, and other say it's not - is this a subjective rule or a hardandfast rule.
>
> I'm very confused and angry that this is occurring - no matter to whom is being violated.
>
>Here's a quote from the FAQ in the section regarding privacy:
"If someone else has posted information that identifies or private communications from you and you object, or if you did so yourself and have changed your mind, please contact me.
If you receive an abusive email or babblemail from someone here, please forward it directly to me (with all its headers, if you know how to do that). FWIW, I can then block any Psycho-Babble or associated Yahoo Group registrations using that email address."
That seems very clear to me. Do you agree?
Scratchpad
Posted by scratchpad on April 19, 2007, at 8:42:39
In reply to Re: now wait a minute! » one woman cine, posted by scratchpad on April 19, 2007, at 8:27:47
> That seems very clear to me. Do you agree?
> Scratchpad
>If I got this interpretation wrong, then let's all be grateful that I'm NOT a deputy, as I clearly don't know what I'm talking about!
sp
Posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 8:47:29
In reply to Re: now wait a minute! » one woman cine, posted by scratchpad on April 19, 2007, at 8:27:47
Well, either I totally misinterpreted what was told to me - or I was given misinformation.
I'm not sure - when all this happened to me very publicly on this very site - no action was taken regarding the personal info/communications - it was just XXXX'd out - multiple times - the person in question was not blocked or reprimanded for doing that (but for something else) - in fact, the person in question was initally unblocked.
The impression I got was that it was OK -
Posted by gardenergirl on April 19, 2007, at 9:40:59
In reply to Re: now wait a minute!, posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 8:47:29
> Well, either I totally misinterpreted what was told to me - or I was given misinformation.
>
> I'm not sure - when all this happened to me very publicly on this very site - no action was taken regarding the personal info/communications - it was just XXXX'd out - multiple times - the person in question was not blocked or reprimanded for doing that (but for something else) - in fact, the person in question was initally unblocked.
>
> The impression I got was that it was OK -It's certainly not considered discreet behavior by a portion of the internet community. Netiquette suggests that one does not forward private information and/or personal statements without the author's permission. It's difficult to enforce, though. At least here we can forward Babblemails which seem problematic (re privacy) to Dr. Bob to address (at some point in the future when he finds the time). And of course we should keep in mind that the internet is essentially not private. This board is definitely not private.
Here is one view on the etiquette of forwarding emails: http://www.cynthiaarmistead.com/internet/forward2.shtml
It takes a hard line. I realize that there's probably a continuum of views on what is acceptable or not, and that everyone falls somewhere on that continuum.What's right or wrong isn't up to me, though I'd like to request that no one share with others any private information I've given them, and I pledge to do the same.
Namaste
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on April 19, 2007, at 12:55:14
In reply to Re: now wait a minute!, posted by gardenergirl on April 19, 2007, at 9:40:59
You should be careful who you give your personal email to.
Sometimes people email a group of people, innocently giving everyone on the list the email of the others.
If forwarding something you should delete the email of the person you got it from.
If emailing a group, you should send the email to yourself and blind cc the actual group.
Posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2007, at 13:06:27
In reply to Re: another thing, posted by AuntieMel on April 19, 2007, at 12:55:14
Very important I always do this especially with jokes as you just never know. Love Phillipa
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 13:28:07
In reply to Re: now wait a minute!, posted by gardenergirl on April 19, 2007, at 9:40:59
If you have a public website that is findable with simple search terms in google, and then low and behold, people actually find this website, who is to blame? Why have a public website if anonymity matters so much?
and.....
Why post information that will lead people to those (very) public websites?
Just the very act of having a public website with IRL info on it, you are accepting the fact that certain groups of people on the net who you'd prefer not to see your pages, will maybe see your pages if they so want.
Just because you don't spell out a URL on babble, doesn't mean you're not broadcasting yourself to other people who know how to pick up the signals. And as the information is in the public domain anyway, you really can not chose who will pick up those signals and interpret them. As there is no element of 'confidentiality' to it anyone can see it, if they know how. And they are not breaking any rules (babble or otherwise) by looking at it.
Of course, with regard to babble, this information should not be posted without the consent of the website owner, that goes without saying. But really, outside of babble, the public website owner has no control over who/or what people will do with the information. Thats just something that has to be accepted if you have information on a public website that is findable with simple search terms in google, I'm afraid.
Just my thoughts on this matter.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 14:17:43
In reply to Public websites, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 13:28:07
>>>Of course, with regard to babble, this information should not be posted without the consent of the website owner, that goes without saying. But really, outside of babble, the public website owner has no control over who/or what people will do with the information. Thats just something that has to be accepted if you have information on a public website that is findable with simple search terms in google, I'm afraid.
& if it is posted without permission, what then? - because I post on a forum, my personal info should be all over the place? Even when I don't want it to be?
The rationale, "well, it's public - therefore it's information anyone can lay claim to it" (as well as misuse and abuse) is not exactly fair now, is it?
You're info is your info - if you put it there, that's one thing (& you should have the power to REMOVE IT (!) if you wish, not rely on bob to do so) - & what goes up in one place does not necessarily mean I want it posted somewhere else.
& what if you're personal info is out there because so-and-so called you and they didn't like the conversation - or whatever - it seems like everything and anything is fair game over the internet.
You have beef with your neighbor, you can smear them publicly, you have a disagreement with a health care provider, you can smear them too.
It's not fair, meri - there are limits as to what constitutes fair game and what doesn't. One cannot hide behind an anonymous posting name - all the while wreaking havoc on very public people.
I ask you, to put yourself in someone elses position. Do you work - how would you like your place of employment to find out certain things about you - or your pdoc - or therapist? Or boyfriend?
I very much doubt you would enjoy that. Very much.
People link to other things all the time - I have posted helpful things only to have come back to haunt me - because someone with very malicious intentions had other ideas on how the info is used.
My info is my info & woe to the individuals who choose to misuse it. I do not take kindly to having my privacy violated.
Posted by Declan on April 19, 2007, at 14:50:23
In reply to Re: Public websites » Meri-Tuuli, posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 14:17:43
I have always assumed that it would take someone with the right resources a couple of hours to arrive at my door should they wish.
You know, the big computer in the sky and someone with the stomach to go over thousands of posts and do the calculations.The people on psychobabble are beaut, but I don't feel particularly safe in this world, and it would be foolish of me to feel so.
It's no big deal (what can I do anyway?).My default position is that by the time they got here I'd have died of something or other.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 15:10:12
In reply to Re: Public websites » Meri-Tuuli, posted by one woman cine on April 19, 2007, at 14:17:43
Yes, I agree with you. Of course I said that a personal website should never ever be posted on babble without the consent of the person who the information belongs to. Thats not what I meant.
When I was referring to 'public websites' I meant just that. A website that was constructed on your behalf containing whatever information you chose to display. As in 'Professor XYZ's homepage - I am a professor at the university of babbleland, my office hours are 10-5pm, my research interests are babble' and so on. You know the ones? So, if you put your personal information in it, and then people find that, through, for example, google, its hardly a crime in babbleland or otherwise. You accept by having a website in the public domain that people may find it if they so wish.
That is largely my point. I am not referring to babblemails (or anything that may be said within them, or indeed passing on private information within babblemails) or posting anything private on babble.
I hope I make sense.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 15:51:29
In reply to Public websites, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 13:28:07
> But really, outside of babble, the public website owner has no control over who/or what people will do with the information. Thats just something that has to be accepted if you have information on a public website that is findable with simple search terms in google, I'm afraid.
But what I am not saying, is that its okay to do whatever you want with this information. I am merely trying to state that the owner has no control over how their public information might be used. Obviously, this is bound by the rules of the society we live in. For example, if I discovered the address of someone, yes, I could make printed copies of that address and use it as toilet paper in my house - thats not illegal - but I could not use that address as my own to obtain a credit card or something.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 16:34:38
In reply to An amendment (sort of) » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 15:51:29
Time for this little Meri to take a babble-break methinks - she is out of her mild mannered comfort zone, and quite possibly, her depth. Sometimes being smart ain't no blessin.
Essentially, its all a very gray area. And I'm sorry things unfolded the way they did. And I'm sorry people reacted the way they did.
Bye.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 19, 2007, at 16:53:19
In reply to Bye., posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 19, 2007, at 16:34:38
I thought you added a lot to a complicated subject. There are nuances to this that go beyond a polar solution, and you helped to define those, imo.
It seems to me that it's similar to how one might view gossip. There are those who gossip and think it's fine. There are those who gossip but feel guilty because they feel that it's wrong. There are those who don't gossip because they think it's wrong. And there are other combinations, I'm sure. I strongly suspect that the concept of passing around private information via internet communication tools would fit that pattern as well.
It also seems to me that the topic of privacy on the internet is maybe too big for one thread, since there are so many different elements to it. Perhaps that complicated the discussion?
At any rate, I always support doing what one needs to do for self care, and if you take a break, I hope it's a good one. I also hope you return. :)
Namaste
gg
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