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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 64Bowtie on July 8, 2008, at 10:11:23
Around 12 step meetings, sharing has 1 dynamic, that the person sharing gets to "drain the swamp", a little.
I can't speak for AA other than reverently address its origins. However, since I have many meetings in 3 programs and a sprinkling in others over the last 20+ years, I am well suited to discuss the "ins and outs" of "recovery" as anticipated by 12 step fellowship.
That all said, posting herein has a similar anticipation, we would all hope. Things learned along the way have useful information for both venues by my observation.
By accepting myself, I have freed myself up to accept that I function better if I "drain the swamp" from time to time. The intense pressures of my distant past may not be causing me to "yak yak yak yak" people's ears off these days, personally. Luckily, I do remember and can sympethize/empathize with anyone else doing it here.
Always conjers up my focused search for recovery answers in me. More basic, "is this 'poster' in any way, ready for recovery road mapping"? Luckily I am not in any way responsible for anyone's progress here, so most everything I see here is taken as aligorical information.
My own internal caution I impose on myself when posting is to clearly listen to any and all responses, to the point of understanding. Then I do profit from the experience. Otherwise, its all just "yak yak yak" from and toward me.
So posting is the easy part. Listening and understanding is the part where I roll up my sleeves and really go to work. The difference is, now I can calculate the payoff for the hard work I do.
Rod
Posted by Toph on July 8, 2008, at 10:35:11
In reply to Posting, listening/understanding responses, posted by 64Bowtie on July 8, 2008, at 10:11:23
Just curious Rod, how do meetings remain civil? Is it just the culture of the group or are there rules and consequences for disruptive or unsupportive conduct? I would imagine that you may have witnessed some conflict in 20 years. How was it handled?
Posted by 64bowtie on July 10, 2008, at 17:07:06
In reply to Re: Posting, listening/understanding responses » 64Bowtie, posted by Toph on July 8, 2008, at 10:35:11
A little background:
All 200+ 12 step programs have traditions that are basically the same with adapted wording here and there, read by a volunteer in the 1st 20 minutes of a 90 minute meeting. Anonimity is the core and the lifeline of all programs (like "be civil" is herein), "Ever reminding us to place (program) principles before personalities (egos)".Anonimity is a written and shared tradition. "Respect for order and respect for time" are unwritten traditions passed on during sponsorship interactions. Also unwritten is the tradition that only members who have progressed through their 4th & 5th steps guided by their sponsor(s), may in turn become a sponsor for others.
E.G., it took me 2 years of 3 to 5 meetings per week to find my way out of my own messy "swamp" of feelings and aborant behaviors, in order to share my 5th step with my sponsor. It was a 5 hour marathon sitting in a back booth at the local McDonald's while drinking refill after refill of McDonald's coffee. 20x20 hindsight is simple; my sponsoring others would have been abysmal before then.
Addressing the question of conflicts:
there are some willful wannabees that try to take over meetings, disrespecting order, that are quickly shut down by the "Old-Timers" if the meeting is large enough (20 plus members). In a meeting where only 5 or 6 folks show up, I've seen the (voluntary) leader quietly start closing things down to stop the meeting and the culprit in their tracks. A common practice is to end with everyone holding hands and reciting the "Serenity Prayer" out loud, and one time it was over the shouting of the bullying party; then everyone picked up their stuff and left, in silence.Respect for time implies need to show up before the beginning of the meeting and share 3 to 5 minutes, not droaning on attempting to control the sharing. Incidently, there is no "cross-talk" allowed. The bullying outbursts violate the no cross-talk rule, a part of respect for order.
I remind you I haven't been part of AA (likewise CA nor NA), where I here rumors that this behavior is more common and with more draconian responses from the old timers in an attempt to squelch it w/o violence.
Rod
Posted by toph on July 11, 2008, at 20:00:45
In reply to » Thanks Toph » listening/understanding, posted by 64bowtie on July 10, 2008, at 17:07:06
That was very informative Rod. When I was in grad school I sat in on some AA and Alanon meetings. I came away with a couple impressions namely that the members generally care about each other's success, that they are very estute at detecting b*llsh*t, and that they are very skeptical of non-recovering therapists. Anyway, as to the topic of group civility (which I'm afraid is a bit of a digression from your original post), I felt a strong sense of respect for the quasi-elders here (Larry, Dinah, Chemist, Zenhussy come to mind). A subtle rebuke from a veteran carried weight while I was trying to fit in. You seem to describe rules as mores rather than written codes, am I right?
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