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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 7:43:06
To those who strongly agree on the necessity of moderator intervention, civility warnings and the inevitable blocks: what are you afraid of? What would happen to YOU if this PBC and block stuff wasn't in play? What would you do if other members could react in a brutally honest fashion? Would your own "mental health" deteriorate as a result? What else might occur if the "thought police" weren't zealously going about their business?
I'm serious - I really would like to hear from you.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2009, at 7:52:30
In reply to What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 7:43:06
I'm not afraid.
I'd just leave.
There are tons of places on the web like that. Those are the places I don't post and rarely read unless there is no alternative to get the information I want.
There are lots of places that are moderated. I'd go there.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2009, at 14:22:30
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2009, at 7:52:30
I agree with Dinah.
I don't choose to be in those sorts of environments.
And, when in a deputy role, I've never been able to - or wanted to - police anyone's thoughts. Their behavior/actions here, maybe (though I don't regard it *exactly* as policing, though I understand the analogy), but certainly not their thoughts.
Posted by Sigismund on May 7, 2009, at 16:25:55
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2009, at 14:22:30
Straightforward and honest (even brutally) is one thing.
Destructive personal attacks are another, where the aim is to humiliate.
Posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 16:57:58
In reply to What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 7:43:06
The answers thus far haven't been answers, at least as I see it. I'm trying to understand exactly what some people fear in a "less controlled" online environment. What do you fear might happen to you and what might be your emotional reaction? Examples, real or hypothetical would be good.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2009, at 17:26:41
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 16:57:58
I'm sorry. That's the best answer I can give to that question. Perhaps someone else could be more helpful.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 7, 2009, at 17:35:23
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 16:57:58
Sorry my answer wasn't an answer for you. Are you maybe making an assumption there *is* fear?
Can't people experience other emotions besides fear?I don't feel fear when people engage in what you call "brutal honesty" - here or on other forums. I just don't like the tone, or atmosphere. It doesn't jive with how I strive to treat people online or face-to-face. I don't have brutal honesty as an ideal, or goal, or whatever term works. I do have civil discourse, empathy and kindness as goals. Some people do value brutal honesty and a more blunt style. I understand that, but they (like me) have to then anticipate possible (or definite) consequences in various communities, for their chosen approach.
It's really not more complex than that. Nothing will necessarily "happen" to me, except perhaps being disinclined to post anything. I might get my feelings hurt, yes, and I suppose I do fear that in a way. But, as Dinah said and I agreed - I would likely leave before that started to be the norm... Why subject myself to that when I am only after a civil discussion, or some opinions, information, etc?
My emotional reactions to other forums where I might describe the rules as allowing something like a free-for-all? Fear doesn't come to mind, more like disappointment, confusion, sadness, and even bewilderment at what I'm reading. Followed by apathy, and then the action of leaving that place.
I can't think of a better way to explain it.
Posted by SLS on May 7, 2009, at 21:22:49
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 16:57:58
> The answers thus far haven't been answers, at least as I see it. I'm trying to understand exactly what some people fear in a "less controlled" online environment. What do you fear might happen to you and what might be your emotional reaction? Examples, real or hypothetical would be good.
Are you up for a challenge?
- Scott
Posted by seldomseen on May 7, 2009, at 22:08:14
In reply to What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 7:43:06
I guess my biggest fear would be the loss of a shared experience with others who may be going through (or have already gone through) something that I may be dealing with.
As a hypothetical example, let's suppose I was having trouble with feelings about my therapist.
Suppose I posted about those feelings and was met with a post that said "you know, you are really stupid for feeling that way and I strongly also suspect you suck as a person. I've known people who developed strong feelings for their therapists and they were losers across the board. No offense - just call them as I see them lol!"Well, I doubt I would post again, and I bet others would be less likely to post their experiences with their therapists, or how they handled it.
Even *IF* I chose to continue posting would others more sensitive than me continue to do so as well? Would I lose their input and support?
Probably, and that would be my biggest fear about the whole matter.
Seldom.
Posted by verne on May 8, 2009, at 1:00:56
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 16:57:58
Ron, I really appreciate your thoughtful question.
I'm not a typical poster, some are living a daydream fantasy. I try to be honest in my own dysfunctional way.
I think some people like the boundaries so they can play games and flirt, in ways they would never dream of in real life.
Online I can pretend, which is probably mild compared to what most people do. Studies show that a vast majority of online posters lie about their age and gender.
I don't think I'm "strapping" and was really pretending. This elicted something equally flirtatous. I was mean and rude when I came to my senses, yet I'm equally at fault.
I think a week, at most, is enough. Isn't that ample time for someone to come to, come to their sense, or rethink their position.
Most blocks occur when people say things out of distress. Why block them for a year for a momentary distress?
I want to be blocked, but that's beside the point. I'd welcome a year's banishment.
A maximum week block may cause more administrative time, but why not? So what if "repeat offenders" keep getting blocked? Others learn and come back.
What we have now is not just a "terms of agreement". It's a kind of circus. When people violate the rules they are put on parade. Their blocks are announced for ALL to see, their faces rubbed in it.
I ask, why the fanfare? If you want to block or ban someone just do it. Why the annoucements and usual riot?
Blocks on this site aren't handled in a professional way. Why the drama? Is this part of the experiment?
I'm sorry, block me forever.
Verne
Posted by antigua3 on May 8, 2009, at 9:29:33
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by verne on May 8, 2009, at 1:00:56
I really try not to live in a daydream fantasy and I'm as honest as can be, in my own dysfunctional way, of course.
But I can see that you may think that people here do act as you've described. I'm sure I'm much too naive about all of this.
I don't usually enter the fray here, but I'm going to this time because one part of your post hit the nail on the head for me.
"Why all the drama? Is this part of the experiment?"
I've thought for a long time here that we're just lab rats, and while I may appear paranoid, it's a conclusion I've come to over several years here. Dr. Bob swoops in to rile us up and then disappears, only to return with some rather suspicious responses and a willingness to keep the "fight" going.
Maybe I've just been around psychiatric research too long. There seems to be a pattern to Dr. Bob's behavior, and there are some rather unhealthy responses from a dr. who supposedly says this is a place of support.
antigua
Posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2009, at 15:22:22
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by verne on May 8, 2009, at 1:00:56
> Blocks on this site aren't handled in a professional way.
Verne,
I'm sorry for my part in that. I was flip in a situation that clearly didn't call for it, and I regret it. I let my personal reactions and assumptions interfere with carrying out my role of deputy at the time and hurt you in the process. I'm sorry. I think I have a broader understanding now of just how unprofessional and heinous that was, and I regret it.I hope you continue to post here if it suits you.
gg
Posted by raisinb on May 8, 2009, at 22:22:02
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 16:57:58
Go to Craigslist psychology forum, find someone who's struggling and honestly looking for help, and see what answers the trolls give him/her. That's what I'd be nervous about (not afraid, exactly, but I'm glad Babble's not like that).
Posted by Justherself54 on May 8, 2009, at 23:46:35
In reply to What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 7:43:06
--To those who strongly agree on the necessity of moderator intervention, civility warnings and the inevitable blocks: what are you afraid of? What would happen to YOU if this PBC and block stuff wasn't in play? --
I don't get your question of "what are you afraid of". I can tell you what I'm not afraid on on babble. I'm not afraid of getting bullied and belittled when I'm at my lowest. I'm not in favour of the length of some of the blocks and I've been blocked myself...and I deserved it..
If the civility guidelines were not in play here, I'd leave..I can't stand bullying and this site tries to keep that at a minimum. I have enough on my plate without becoming a punching bag. I've seen it happen too many times on other forums.
--What would you do if other members could react in a brutally honest fashion?--
I think you can be brutally honest here. However, I quess it's how you define brutally honest. Knowingly phrasing something in a sarcastic and unkind manner may appear to be brutally honest, but the underlying intention is to hurt.
--Would your own "mental health" deteriorate as a result?--
No..my mental health is deteriorating nicely on its own.
What else might occur if the "thought police" weren't zealously going about their business?
A whole lot of nastiness..but that's just my opinion. If I wanted nastiness and chaos I'd belong to forums that allow that type of behaviour.
That's about all my brain can come up with for now. Regards..
Posted by 64bowtie on May 11, 2009, at 21:00:08
In reply to Apology » verne, posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2009, at 15:22:22
» GG » : so good to see you here...
Rod
Posted by verne on May 12, 2009, at 19:24:21
In reply to Re: What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by Justherself54 on May 8, 2009, at 23:46:35
I agree with you. When I survey the landscape of forums this site is almost always civil. Sure it seems too strict which brings out the imp in me. (I don't engage in criminal behavior but abuse keyboards and answering machines) I guess, I'm saying, the blocks could be less than a year.
In the world you have an extreme like Singapore with one of the highest capital punishment rates per capita (if not highest)in the world, but they have strict law and order. At other extremes, a country like Canada usually only exacts a minor prison sentence for even the most extreme offences.
I'm starting to appreciate Dr Bob's situation: the tightrope he walks. My only qualm is the length of blocks.
I'm still sorry about my latest drunken rampage. Booze really brings out the worst in me - at least, online. I'm mean on the computer and the phone but not in real life. If someone answers the phone, I love them. If I get the machine, the "war" (of my own doing) is on.
I think your post was thoughtful and insightful.
Verne
Posted by Kath on May 20, 2009, at 9:45:19
In reply to What Are You Afraid Of?, posted by ron1953 on May 7, 2009, at 7:43:06
~ ~ Hi Ron - the fact that these things exist are what allows me to be so open, honest & vulnerable in my reply to your questions. Yes, I could get replies to my post that could result in my feelings being hurt, but I know that in this place, I would be supported by basically what amounts to "Hey - that's not cool here."
I like the supportive, respectful 'feel' of PB & I like that if it starts to veer away from that, it's nudged back to supportive & respectful. Sometimes there might be bumpy times during the 'nudging' but nobody is perfect & no situation is perfect.
You asked for examples. Well, really, the length of my reply is a good example. I tend to go on & on. Some of my posts are really long. Sometimes I feel a bit weird about that, but I know that I'm not going to be attacked about it. I know that people who don't like that will just not read my posts, or skim through them. Or at worst, roll their eyes & say 'there's that flippin' woman going on & on again!' but I won't see or hear it & if I do, there's the stuff you're asking about - in place to point out if there's a reply that doesn't fit the 'feel' of it here.
> To those who strongly agree on the necessity of moderator intervention, civility warnings and the inevitable blocks: what are you afraid of?
~ ~ If there's a part of me that's afraid, it's a small, inner, very-vulnerable part.
That part is afraid of feeling unsafe.
What does feeling unsafe mean to that part of me? Probably that I'd be 'in a place' where I'd experience people being verbally attacked or being 'spoken to' meanly, or being ridiculed or not valued, so that would mean those things might happen to me.> What would happen to YOU if this PBC and block stuff wasn't in play?
~ ~ I'd feel that I could just type away. I don't pretend, or play games. I'm just 'me'. What-ya-read-is-the-real-ticket. This place has been a source of ongoing, caring support for me during times when I didn't know HOW I could go on, day to day.
That is VERY important to me. If those things weren't in place, I'd be editing myself, because I don't feel comfortable being ridiculed, attacked, put down, etc. I wouldn't feel safe being real.> What would you do if other members could react in a brutally honest fashion?
~ ~ I'd probably censor myself. Ya know, in my opinion, there's a difference in being 'brutally honest' in a kind, caring way versus being honest in a brutal way. If people were being honest in a brutal or mean way, I guess, like others have said, I'd leave. And the feelings would not be 'fear' then. They'd be sadness. I'd feel sad to have lost a place where people know my 'story' & have helped me through some of the very roughest, and indeed 'brutal' times in my life.
> Would your own "mental health" deteriorate as a result?
~ ~ Oh yeah. You bet. I'm not sure if 'deteriorate' is the exact word, but perhaps it is. For me, 'telling about it' is what helps bring my brain waves back to calm. My therapist actually has a biofeedback machine & I was trying to get it to show what 'upset' looked like on the screen so I could find ways to bring myself down. So I talked out loud about something really upsetting that had happened. Dowwwwwnnnnn came the readings! Maybe that's why my posts can be so long! (Oh yeah - that's another thing. If those things weren't in place, I'd quite possibly get uncomfortable feedback about all my !!!!!marks & capital letters. But for me, they help put expression, or emphasis in how I'm 'saying' things onto the screen, which is hard to do.)
> What else might occur if the "thought police" weren't zealously going about their business?
~ ~ I don't view them as thought police. I've never heard ANY reference by any Admin folks about what we should or shouldn't think. What else might occur if the guidelines & rules of PB weren't enforced? The 'tone' or 'feel' of PB might change. I think that the people who are here must like the tone & feel of PB or they'd leave. For those who want a different tone & feel, maybe they can find it on another forum.
As to 'zealously going about their business', I am glad they do & I sincerely appreciate the time, effort, & probably a huge list of other things that are involved in being a Deputy.> I'm serious - I really would like to hear from you.
~ ~ I'm glad that several people have replied to you. I hope it's helped you to understand how various people think & feel about this subject.
Cheers, Kath
Posted by Kath on May 20, 2009, at 9:46:01
In reply to Apology » verne, posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2009, at 15:22:22
Good to see you gg. Care to drop in at Social?
hugs, Kath
This is the end of the thread.
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