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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 43 to 67 of 74. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on May 7, 2010, at 15:07:30
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
(((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))))
Poster D interprets your interest in this thread as evidence of your caring and wanting to help Babblers. Poster D feels all warm inside.
Hugs from poster "D". LOL
(((((((((((((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))))))))))))
Happy sigh. Poster D loves you soooo much! You're the best.
Posted by obsidian on May 7, 2010, at 21:54:02
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
> I think that was excellent, thank you. Sid, are those the sort of dynamics you had in mind?yes :-)
that's it. Thank goodness for dinah, and her powers of explanation.
Posted by jane d on May 8, 2010, at 0:55:56
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 12:19:42
> > Posters X, Y, and Z could simplify their lives by deciding to interact with each other and all the other posters in the alphabet instead. On the board, in chat, or somewhere else entirely. Much less complicated and more gratifying.
> >
> > jane d
>
> That's true. Posters have the power to not to engage with those they don't get along with.
>We don't get along? I'm sorry to hear that!
I'm also sorry if I offended you in any way since that wasn't my intent. I merely meant that the amount of your engagement with individual posters here is limited. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and there's no reason to think it's going to change. If one wants more of a personal relationship I think one is more likely to find that with other posters. Therefore that's more gratifying. And less complicated without the power imbalance.
Anyway it's worked for me and I'm grateful to you for providing a place it could happen in.
Jane,
wondering if she's put her foot further in her mouth but too sleepy to care
Posted by Tabitha on May 8, 2010, at 1:08:13
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 7, 2010, at 13:42:33
>
> Dinah and Tabitha, are you referring to the same types of poster as X and Z?I think so. My Poster X is the type that sees you as a tyrant and gets blocked repeatedly as a result of expressing anger over that here. My Poster Z is the type that gets a huuuuge crush on you and expresses that here. I assumed we had roughly the same X and Z types in mind, then Dinah was also drawing a parallel between Poster Z's interaction with you and her own interaction with her therapist.
Posted by vwoolf on May 9, 2010, at 2:42:20
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » Dr. Bob, posted by Tabitha on May 8, 2010, at 1:08:13
Interesting discussion.
Well I suppose there could be Babbler A who doesn't post at all because she is so in awe of an omnimpotent and wrathful Dr Bob. She might be convinced that he would ignore her posts or be angry with her for daring to post:
or
Babbler B who might fear that Dr Bob has ulterior motives in hosting this site. She might be constantly suspicious of what he wanted of her, whether to use her as case material or, more ominously, for some kind of secret experiment;
or
Babbler C who might think that Dr Bob would be interested in and excited by her pathology (because otherwise why would he run a site like this - he must have some prurient interest). She might play up her symptoms to draw and hold his attention.
I suppose I can identify with all the attitudes expressed so far, A to Z and probably others besides. I go through most of them on any single day. I think it is one of the things about therapy that frustrates me most, not knowing who is on the other side of the blank slate, and being forced to expose myself in attempting to work it out.
Mostly with Babble my interaction has been with other Babblers and transferencial stuff with Dr Bob is limited. However I have often been aware of it working away in the background. After I post I wonder whether he will see it and what he will think. I guess it has been helpful to me to have a place to bring things where the exposure is not as raw as in therapy but involves similar dynamics. I am not sure that I would have survived the first few years of therapy if I had not had this place to bring things to first. It has felt like a half-way house, a place safe enough to test things out but not meaningless like many other unmoderated boards where there is no sense of the eyes of the other looking on.
And I suppose that's what it is all about - the eyes of the other. Are they cruel or mocking or loving or bored or preoccupied or amused or hateful or murderous or hungry?
Or perhaps nothing at all? Perhaps, and this might be the worst thing of all, perhaps there are no eyes, nobody looking. Perhaps there really is no Dr Bob.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 10, 2010, at 7:38:35
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by jane d on May 8, 2010, at 0:55:56
> I merely meant that the amount of your engagement with individual posters here is limited. It's been that way for as long as I can remember and there's no reason to think it's going to change. If one wants more of a personal relationship I think one is more likely to find that with other posters. Therefore that's more gratifying. And less complicated without the power imbalance.
Thanks for elaborating. I agree. At the same time, posters may find interactions with me ungratifying and complicated even if they aren't looking for a personal relationship with me. But that may be a learning opportunity.
> Anyway it's worked for me and I'm grateful to you for providing a place it could happen in.
>
> Jane,
> wondering if she's put her foot further in her mouthThanks, and no worries,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 11, 2010, at 0:03:21
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by vwoolf on May 9, 2010, at 2:42:20
> Poster X might feel that you are insensitive and provocative. ... They think you will hurt them
> He's enabling the idealization phases ... Poster X ... might think he's just enjoying an ego boost
> Poster X is the type that sees you as a tyrant
> Babbler A who doesn't post at all because she is so in awe of an omnimpotent and wrathful Dr Bob. She might be convinced that he would ignore her posts or be angry with her for daring to post
--
> Poster Y ... might consider your [interactions] to be evidence of your wit and of a detached interest, and ... busyness. They might appreciate that even though you are so busy, you take time for Babble.
> Poster D interprets your interest in this thread as evidence of your caring and wanting to help Babblers.
--
> Poster Z ... [tends] to interpret things as meaning he didn't care about me. ... wants to be special to you
> Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob
> Poster Z is the type that gets a huuuuge crush on you
--
> Babbler B who might fear that Dr Bob has ulterior motives in hosting this site. She might be constantly suspicious of what he wanted of her, whether to use her as case material or, more ominously, for some kind of secret experiment
> Babbler C who might think that Dr Bob would be interested in and excited by her pathology (because otherwise why would he run a site like this - he must have some prurient interest). She might play up her symptoms to draw and hold his attention.
--
I tried to summarize and group above the hypothetical types of posters that have been mentioned so far. What do you think? Any others?
> I suppose that's what it is all about - the eyes of the other.
>
> vwoolfI also tried to match them up with eyes:
> Are they:
> cruel or mocking ... or hateful or murderousX, A
> loving or bored or preoccupied or amused
Y, D, Z
> hungry?
B, C
How about that?
Bob
Posted by vwoolf on May 11, 2010, at 7:14:40
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 11, 2010, at 0:03:21
I guess there might also be poster P who would feel supercilious and superior or sceptical and would behave quite critically and abusively towards Dr Bob. I'm finding this one more difficult to define - I can see how she would behave, but not how she would view Dr Bob. I understand that it would be the inverse of feeling vitimised. Perhaps this is the kind of poster that Dr bob would dread most?
There could also be Poster Q, an incest survivor, who might expect Dr Bob to treat her as an equal, to share inside information with her and not with other posters. I suppose this falls into the category of Hungry Eyes, but with a twist in the tail.
Posted by Dinah on May 11, 2010, at 8:26:16
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 11, 2010, at 0:03:21
I thought of another possible one. Babbler W, who wishes to use Babble as a peer oriented mental health community. Poster W might not wish to think about Dr. Bob at all, although Poster W expects Babble to be well run, for intervention to be minimal and non-administrative intervention to be even more minimal. Poster W may or may not disapprove of what minimal non-administrative interaction Dr. Bob has with Babble and may or may not think it is professional in their understanding of what Dr. Bob's role is. But overall, Poster W would expect Dr. Bob to act swiftly and logically to resolve objectionable postings(by Poster W's criteria), and to remain out of anything unobjectionable (by Poster W's criteria).
I think this is actually the way you see it yourself, Dr. Bob, and oughtn't be that much of a problem. Unless the expectations (especially about timeliness) are strong and result in disappointment and anger. Or the definitions of logical and objectionable are based on references to Poster W's beliefs and don't allow for differences in interpretation. Those differences can be inexplicable if Poster W's belief is that those things are self evident and can be seen by any neutral party.
I suppose that over time, Poster W might even begin to resemble Poster X - not because they see you as evil or malevolent. Merely incompetent and unprofessional and lacking in sense and sensibility.
(Can you tell I listened to a Linehan tape about the difference between fact and interpretation, and the non-utilitarian nature of judgment last night?)
This would be not dissimilar to Poster Y as far as possible negative results. Except that Dr. Bob is not is being idealized and overvalued. What's being idealized is *truth* (seen as fact, not fact + interpretation + judgment).
The possible negative results would be the same, in the form of contempt and even rage when Dr. Bob falls short of those expectations.
(Now naturally, my own truths really are totally objective, and readily seen by any neutral person of sense and understanding of basic human emotions. And any anger I might feel at Dr. Bob failing to see these self evident truths is entirely justified. ;)
I say that tongue in cheek, yet... I still do feel that way about things like Twitter and Facebook buttons on the bottom of each page.)
I'm not sure how those expectations change literal reality other than that it increases the chances that Poster W may feel rage or contempt based on the failure of Dr. Bob to live up to their expectations of what a reasonable and professional board administrator ought to do. As opposed, say, to Dr. Bob failing to live up to his own expectations and his own truths. Which one would like to believe is not something that happens frequently.
And while I'm a huge believer in the lowering of expectations, and doing so is generally my response in any relationship I find overall valuable, I can't help but think that a better thing would be for all parties - including and especially Dr. Bob - to make an effort to understand and be sensitive to the emotional meanings that attach to facts, and respectful of them.
But there, you see how insidious that is. There's an expectation in there that contains both facts, interpretations and judgments. And I'm bound to suffer all the consequences that come along with that.
Still, I'm not quite seeing how that influences actual reality. Although I suppose that a person's experience at Babble doesn't necessarily rely on actual reality, just perceived reality.
Perhaps actions taken by Poster W might increase administrative actions, which Poster W might find objectionable and hard to understand? Bah. I'm having trouble with the applying how expectations become reality to this poster.
Posted by Dinah on May 11, 2010, at 8:41:34
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dinah on May 11, 2010, at 8:26:16
Of course, there is likely a variation on Poster W, who has the same expectations of Dr. Bob, but doesn't feel them as keenly. So if Dr. Bob disappoints their expectations, they are more likely to be able to shrug it off as his idiosyncrasy and something that Poster W(2) has to put up with for being here. Or to feel mildly that Dr. Bob was unprofessional or wrong or whatever, but that's part of life. Especially if Dr. Bob's actions don't affect them personally. And sometimes even if they do. So that their enjoyment and participation in Babble is largely unaffected by anything Dr. Bob does.
In fact, there may be permutations of all the alphabet posters that lead to a more detached version.
The difference there may be in a different way of viewing the world (and their relationship to the world) rather than Dr. Bob, and different expectations of life and fairness, etc.
I envy the (2)'s. :(
These posters may have more reactions to other posters responses to Dr. Bob than they do to Dr. Bob himself.
Posted by vwoolf on May 11, 2010, at 9:33:49
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dinah on May 11, 2010, at 8:41:34
Dinah, I think the (2)'s must have either had really good parenting so that they can afford to ignore any authority figure, or have come from huge sprawling families where the parents were completely ineffectual and could be ignored. Not my case, I'm afraid.
Posted by PartlyCloudy on May 11, 2010, at 18:25:44
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 11, 2010, at 0:03:21
Yuck. I don't particularly care being characterized as a letter in the alphabet in my behavior. I'm an individual with my own responses and they are like no one else's.
I'm not Poster A, B, C, X, Y, nor Z.
I'm PartlyCloudy. I have also been ClearSkies, amongst others. I have my own characteristics. Maybe I should not be reading this thread, much less participating in it, as it does make me feel more like part of a research project and less like a member of a community.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 11, 2010, at 21:09:33
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » Dr. Bob, posted by PartlyCloudy on May 11, 2010, at 18:25:44
I feel pretty much that way, too.
But I also have the advantage of becoming lost several posts back. I never can follow these sorts of discussions for long, which I am realizing really doesn't bother me much at all. I barely managed weak B-grades in sociology-type classes, which is what this is to me, but it was tough, with a mixture of rebellious disagreement and disinterest. That's okay, though. I leave it to others who can follow it.
Group stuff, I do not get and perhaps do not want to get. One-on-one, or very small and intimate group interaction I do get, for the most part.
Hope you are doing well :-)
Posted by Justherself54 on May 11, 2010, at 23:29:51
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » PartlyCloudy, posted by 10derHeart on May 11, 2010, at 21:09:33
I got lost too. I don't do well with these particular types of threads. You're not alone 10derHeart!
Posted by 10derHeart on May 11, 2010, at 23:58:17
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » 10derHeart, posted by Justherself54 on May 11, 2010, at 23:29:51
Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2010, at 9:12:53
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » Dinah, posted by vwoolf on May 11, 2010, at 9:33:49
I've never known where to come down in terms of cause. In my case it may be more because my parents encouraged us to speak openly to them and to other authority figures. Maybe it was because I usually got along better with adults than with many children because I was an only child who spent my early years isolated geographically from other kids. I naturally learned to look "up" (literally) rather than to the side. But maybe there are some temperament factors in play as well.
I do know that it has always been helpful to me to be curious about my experiences of life, and open to the possibility that there are things I can do to change my experiences.
It might be helpful to me to think about new points of view that might make incremental changes toward the side of (2). :)
Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2010, at 9:25:20
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » PartlyCloudy, posted by 10derHeart on May 11, 2010, at 21:09:33
I might make more sense to myself than to others. :)
I spent the night before my "W" post listening to one of Marsha Linehan's videos.
http://www.behavioraltech.com/products/details.cfm?pc=VT05
(Sorry, Dr. Bob. It's sold directly, not through Amazon.)
One of the things on the video was separating facts from interpretations and judgments. And how it wasn't a question of right or wrong, just of better outcomes. You know how I love pragmatics. At any rate, it seemed to fit with this topic, so perhaps I spoke as if everyone had seen the video the night before. If so, I apologize.
I do like these discussions, I guess. I don't think of them as sociology so much as my habitual interest in the question of "why". As well as an indoctrination from my therapist who always points out that the only person I can change in any given interaction is myself. He always keeps that in mind when I talk about Babble, and focuses on how things like my expectations and interpretations influence my outcome here.
Of course, Dr. Bob isn't a therapist. But I suppose he does have an interest in people having better experiences here.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 12, 2010, at 13:19:02
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on May 12, 2010, at 9:25:20
It was mostly Dr. Bob who lost me completely. I understood your posts.
Which is nothing new, as he well knows ;-)
Posted by PartlyCloudy on May 12, 2010, at 17:35:33
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet » PartlyCloudy, posted by 10derHeart on May 11, 2010, at 21:09:33
I'm doing fairly well. Ups and downs but still moving in a forward direction!
pc
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 12, 2010, at 22:25:13
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dinah on May 11, 2010, at 8:41:34
> Poster X might feel that you are insensitive and provocative. ... They think you will hurt them
> He's enabling the idealization phases ... Poster X ... might think he's just enjoying an ego boost
> Poster X is the type that sees you as a tyrant
> Babbler A who doesn't post at all because she is so in awe of an omnimpotent and wrathful Dr Bob. She might be convinced that he would ignore her posts or be angry with her for daring to post
> poster P who would feel supercilious and superior or sceptical and would behave quite critically and abusively towards Dr Bob.
> Poster W ... [disapproves] of ... interaction Dr. Bob has with Babble
>
> the expectations ... are strong and result in disappointment and anger.
>
> they see you as ... incompetent and unprofessional and lacking in sense and sensibility.
>
> The possible negative results would be ... contempt and even rage when Dr. Bob falls short of those expectations.sees me as:
> cruel or mocking ... or hateful or murderous
--
> Poster Y ... might consider your [interactions] to be evidence of your wit and of a detached interest, and ... busyness. They might appreciate that even though you are so busy, you take time for Babble.
> Poster D interprets your interest in this thread as evidence of your caring and wanting to help Babblers.
> Poster Z ... [tends] to interpret things as meaning he didn't care about me. ... wants to be special to you
> Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob
> Poster Z is the type that gets a huuuuge crush on you
sees me as:
> loving or bored or preoccupied or amused
--
> Babbler B who might fear that Dr Bob has ulterior motives in hosting this site. She might be constantly suspicious of what he wanted of her, whether to use her as case material or, more ominously, for some kind of secret experiment
> Babbler C who might think that Dr Bob would be interested in and excited by her pathology (because otherwise why would he run a site like this - he must have some prurient interest). She might play up her symptoms to draw and hold his attention.
> There could also be Poster Q, an incest survivor, who might expect Dr Bob to treat her as an equal, to share inside information with her and not with other posters.
sees me as:
> hungry
--
I added and tried to categorize the latest hypothetical poster types. Any other types? Or variations of these types?
--
> there is likely a variation ... who has the same expectations of Dr. Bob, but doesn't feel them as keenly. So if Dr. Bob disappoints their expectations, they are more likely to be able to shrug it off as his idiosyncrasy and something that [they have] to put up with for being here. ... part of life.
>
> In fact, there may be permutations of all the alphabet posters that lead to a more detached version.I agree, there could be more or less detached versions of each type. And of course combinations of types.
Bob
Posted by Free on May 13, 2010, at 1:11:33
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 12, 2010, at 22:25:13
Hi Bob,
At first my response was !!? But now I think you are an interesting man - a one of a kind for sure. You might fit into a hypothetical website owner "h" or "y".
My hypothetical type of poster would type this:
((x -> q) ^ (d -> z) ^ (x V d)) |- (q V z)
((x -> q) ^ (d -> z) ^ (-|q V -|z)) |- (-|x V -|d)
x |- -|-|x
|- -|(x ^ -|x)
|-
(A,m) = {m(x1) / x1,...,m(xn) / xn}nota ^ dna
> > Poster X might feel that you are insensitive and provocative. ... They think you will hurt them
>
> > He's enabling the idealization phases ... Poster X ... might think he's just enjoying an ego boost
>
> > Poster X is the type that sees you as a tyrant
>
> > Babbler A who doesn't post at all because she is so in awe of an omnimpotent and wrathful Dr Bob. She might be convinced that he would ignore her posts or be angry with her for daring to post
>
> > poster P who would feel supercilious and superior or sceptical and would behave quite critically and abusively towards Dr Bob.
>
> > Poster W ... [disapproves] of ... interaction Dr. Bob has with Babble
> >
> > the expectations ... are strong and result in disappointment and anger.
> >
> > they see you as ... incompetent and unprofessional and lacking in sense and sensibility.
> >
> > The possible negative results would be ... contempt and even rage when Dr. Bob falls short of those expectations.
>
> sees me as:
>
> > cruel or mocking ... or hateful or murderous
>
> --
>
> > Poster Y ... might consider your [interactions] to be evidence of your wit and of a detached interest, and ... busyness. They might appreciate that even though you are so busy, you take time for Babble.
>
> > Poster D interprets your interest in this thread as evidence of your caring and wanting to help Babblers.
>
> > Poster Z ... [tends] to interpret things as meaning he didn't care about me. ... wants to be special to you
>
> > Poster Z idealizes Dr Bob
>
> > Poster Z is the type that gets a huuuuge crush on you
>
> sees me as:
>
> > loving or bored or preoccupied or amused
>
> --
>
> > Babbler B who might fear that Dr Bob has ulterior motives in hosting this site. She might be constantly suspicious of what he wanted of her, whether to use her as case material or, more ominously, for some kind of secret experiment
>
> > Babbler C who might think that Dr Bob would be interested in and excited by her pathology (because otherwise why would he run a site like this - he must have some prurient interest). She might play up her symptoms to draw and hold his attention.
>
> > There could also be Poster Q, an incest survivor, who might expect Dr Bob to treat her as an equal, to share inside information with her and not with other posters.
>
> sees me as:
>
> > hungry
>
> --
>
> I added and tried to categorize the latest hypothetical poster types. Any other types? Or variations of these types?
>
> --
>
> > there is likely a variation ... who has the same expectations of Dr. Bob, but doesn't feel them as keenly. So if Dr. Bob disappoints their expectations, they are more likely to be able to shrug it off as his idiosyncrasy and something that [they have] to put up with for being here. ... part of life.
> >
> > In fact, there may be permutations of all the alphabet posters that lead to a more detached version.
>
> I agree, there could be more or less detached versions of each type. And of course combinations of types.
>
> Bob
Posted by Free on May 13, 2010, at 2:21:02
In reply to Re: caring about each other, posted by Dr. Bob on May 6, 2010, at 0:04:19
> I was wondering if you (or anybody else) could think of an example (or two) of how a hypothetical poster's prophecies or expectations about me might become realities if they didn't question themselves?
>
> Bob
My answer: Unanalyzed transference.Currently, you are a comfortable synthesis of opposing perceptions. I accept "you" the way "you" are by keeping my transference in check with just the facts. It's not easy, but I've got enough to deal with in real life (i.e. shimanosramorcampy and compdblortriple). I try to leave any and all intense transference in my T's office where it's safe. :)
Posted by tetrix on May 13, 2010, at 12:08:59
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 12, 2010, at 22:25:13
how about a poster who is almost indifferent to dr Bob, though sometimes finds him arrogant and very mildly irritating
Posted by Justherself54 on May 13, 2010, at 18:19:09
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by tetrix on May 13, 2010, at 12:08:59
This thread makes my head hurt. Please don't tell me we have to move on to the multiplication table after this!
Posted by Deneb on May 14, 2010, at 21:48:59
In reply to Re: other posters in the alphabet, posted by Dr. Bob on May 12, 2010, at 22:25:13
Interesting fact: When I first came to Psycho-Babble about 4 or 5 years ago, I thought Dr. Bob was malevolent. That was when I didn't know Dr. Bob yet. Or maybe it was because I was messed up then. LOL
Maybe others will like Dr. Bob better when they feel better too.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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