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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 111 to 135 of 308. Go back in thread:
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 22:39:29
In reply to Dr. Bob, can you forget about the ratings idea?, posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 22:17:37
> I didn't think it through when I suggested it. Everyone is saying it is a bad idea and I can see how it can be a bad idea now. Can you please just forget about the ratings idea. I'd feel so bad if you implemented this and everyone gets angry or upset and leaves! It'd be all my fault!
Deneb,Bob may have been thinking about this before you brought it up. And even if he wasn't, you are not to blame for anything!! Anyone could have thrown an idea out there, and we do, but this is his responsibility from here on out. NO ONE is going to be upset with you either way!
Already you have seen this is not what babblers want and have asked that it not be implemented. How could you know what the reaction would be? Its his deal now Deneb. Don't you dare go blaming yourself.
Okay? You've done nothing wrong.
~Jade :-)
Posted by SLS on July 18, 2010, at 6:40:44
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
> > > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
> >
> > NO.
> >
> > Are you really considering this?
>
> Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
>
> Bob
This could be the worst idea yet. It is forcing an alternative motivation to post outside the purview of altruism. What do you suppose is the current motivation to post?What would be your criteria for assigning a reward? Should Linkadge earn more reward points than Deneb?
You really seem to like this idea. My guess is that you will make it will happen. Speaking for only one poster - me - I would be less inclined to post if I were forced to be compared to others in the "quality" of my posts. I find that having my posts rated - having *me* rated - in front of the whole world to see is inhibitory rather than encouraging.
I can't be sure, of course, but I think there will be a disincentive to post if competition is to be part of the terms of service.
I think it is as much a show of character to reject one's own ideas as it is to accept those of another. I have never seen you yield on one of your ideas.
- Scott
Posted by Justherself54 on July 18, 2010, at 10:25:27
In reply to Re: Point system » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on July 18, 2010, at 6:40:44
I wouldn't like my posts to be rated. I have enough trouble posting as it is, without the added pressure of having my post rated. Having a point system could cause underlying tensions between posters to escalate, as the rating system could be a tool to bypass the civility rules.
I agree with the other posters who say you will go ahead and do what you will with this idea (and no offense to Deneb, ever). I think you may run the risk of more babblers leaving.
Therefore, I would like to know if you are going to allow us the choice of opting out, or will it be automatic?
Posted by ron1953 on July 18, 2010, at 16:22:08
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 20:49:39
> Scale of one to 10?
> Quality
> Length
> Accuracy
> Difficulty
> etc.
>
>Lunacy.....
Posted by jade k on July 18, 2010, at 17:02:04
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming... » jade k, posted by ron1953 on July 18, 2010, at 16:22:08
> > Scale of one to 10?
> > Quality
> > Length
> > Accuracy
> > Difficulty
> > etc.
> >
> >
>
> Lunacy.....And then some...
Posted by nadezda on July 18, 2010, at 17:22:12
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by jade k on July 18, 2010, at 17:02:04
Absoutely terrible, I might even say, execrable, and unhumane idea.
Not to be extreme, but I agree it goes against everything I thought -- and trusted-- this place stood for.
Nadezda
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2010, at 17:49:16
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by nadezda on July 18, 2010, at 17:22:12
> Not to be extreme, but I agree it goes against everything I thought -- and trusted-- this place stood for.
>
> NadezdaI wholeheartedly agree.
gg
Posted by jade k on July 18, 2010, at 18:41:27
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2010, at 17:49:16
"One" might think the resulting effect will be to keep the most knowledgeable, intelligent, and experienced posters, and weed out the rest. Continuing that thought, Facebookers, Tweeters, and readers of the NYTimes, from around the world, will be so impressed with babble's "brilliance"...he...I mean babble, will become famous!
It's Psychobabble!, The Free Psychiatric Encyclopedia!
Or, "one" might realize that he...I mean babble...will lose many if not most of its current posters. Gone will be many of the unique, smart, flawed, experienced, crazy, funny, supportive, compassionate, helpful, irritable, obsessive, insomniac ridden human type of posters...that make Babble the community that it is.
Or..."one", or some, could brainstorm some new ideas and breathe some life back into Babble and make it as great as it once was, instead of turning it into a human reference guide.
~Jade
Posted by BayLeaf on July 18, 2010, at 19:14:36
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
"..And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?"
Oh please, yes! I want to win points and spend Babble Bills at the Babble Boutique!! I wanna buy autographed photos of The Reticent One! :-)
Bob, your brain seems to work differently than mine. Scoring would be fine at a site where people are asking about car engines...right and wrong are *fairly* clear. Concrete right and wrong does not work here.
And how can anyone but the poster know what was helpful to them? And frankly, if my post wasn't all that helpful, I may not want to know. It can help ME to try. Knowing I wasn't helpful would cause me pain.
And how does getting a lot of low scores help? Will poorly scoring posters leave? Or learn to be better posters?? How?
So do you see the poster writing:
Bay your post rates a 1 because:
a) you did not demonstrate sufficient amount of empathy
b) you did not understand my issue
c) you did not make any damn sense
c) you did not make me laugh
d) some combination of the aboveThis way we can learn and grow as posters?? Are we droids?
Posted by BayLeaf on July 18, 2010, at 19:24:08
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming...a shame, posted by jade k on July 18, 2010, at 18:41:27
Posted by jade k on July 18, 2010, at 19:36:42
In reply to Re: Point system » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on July 18, 2010, at 19:14:36
> "..And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?"
>
> Oh please, yes! I want to win points and spend Babble Bills at the Babble Boutique!! I wanna buy autographed photos of The Reticent One! :-)They're Bobble Heads...of The Reticent One....
Not sure about the autograph...(awful buzy doing interviews and such)
>>
> Bay your post rates a 1 because:
>
> a) you did not demonstrate sufficient amount of empathy
> b) you did not understand my issue
> c) you did not make any damn sense
> c) you did not make me laugh
> d) some combination of the above
I hereby rate your post a ten. Because I feel like it.
Posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2010, at 20:49:26
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by jade k on July 18, 2010, at 19:36:42
I've said this before and here I go again...having everyone upset is part of the payoff here.
Who knows where these posts are going to end up now?
Research? Book? Paper? Speech? Website?
Posted by violette on July 19, 2010, at 1:09:45
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2010, at 20:49:26
Psychobabble Poster Rating Criteria:
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Poster hurts another poster by pointing out wrong forum choice to the poster of the post posted on the wrong forumRate your fellow Babblers-Don't delay!!! If you act now, you can cash in your Babble Bucks for a free, genuine, framed Psychobabble MAOI Diet Chart!! In addition, you'll be entered into a one-time drawing for a chance to win the Babble Bloodpressure Cuff in your choice of three colors!
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Posted by BayLeaf on July 19, 2010, at 5:42:33
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by violette on July 19, 2010, at 1:09:45
Posted by violette on July 19, 2010, at 11:48:03
In reply to Re: Point system » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on July 18, 2010, at 19:14:36
=====================
BABBLE BLAB-O-GRAM
for the
Month of August, 2010
=====================Attention Posters!
Please join our upcoming rating promotion for the month of August! For every 10 ratings you submit during the month, you will be entered into our drawing for a chance to win one of 6 valuable prizes:
1. Bottle of Kira St. Johns Wort/60 capsules
2. $20 gift certificate for Glaxo Smith Klein
3. One get-out-of Babble Block free pass
4. Pass for 2 week credit for future block time
5. Gift certificate for one free MMPI test
6. Deluxe neon, waterproof blood pressure cuffThe more you rate posters--the more you increase your chances of winning!! In addition, all monthly winners will be receive one entry in the end-of-year grand prize drawing to be the Research Subject of the Year, where you will have the chance to have your mental breakdown experience published in a peer-reviewed, scientific journal!!
Babblers, don't delay! The Research Subject of the Year award is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity!!
*Shipping and handling of $9.99 per item will be charged to winner
**MMPI test only provided by practitioner in Chicago, IL
***Winners must print and mail each post s/he rated for proof of eligibility
Posted by violette on July 19, 2010, at 12:13:42
In reply to Upcoming Babble rating contest for August, posted by violette on July 19, 2010, at 11:48:03
=====================
**BABBLE ALERT**
July 19, 2010
=====================Attention Posters!
Do you feel depressed or anxious? Does the summer seem to be passing you by with no life enjoyment?
Well do not fear--help is on the way!! Starting today, Psychobabble will begin to tally your rating score for the period July 19 to July 31. Whoever has the highest score by the end of the month will receive a special prize: the ultimate SUPERMEGATWEET of your depression experience!!!
Fellow Babblers, the SUPERMEGATWEET is exponential and will broadcast your hopelessness and despair to the world, potentially reaching over 1 billion Twitters-bringing YOU more of the support YOU need!!!
Time is running out Babblers-rate your fellow posters today so that they will have the opportunity to receive more support with the ultimate SUPERMEGATWEET!!!
Posted by PartlyCloudy on July 19, 2010, at 12:30:35
In reply to Babble Alert - July 19, 2010, posted by violette on July 19, 2010, at 12:13:42
Posted by ron1953 on July 19, 2010, at 12:45:45
In reply to researchers like numbers more than emotions (nm) » jade k, posted by BayLeaf on July 18, 2010, at 19:24:08
...and academics like book knowledge more than pragmatic experience
Posted by Toph on July 20, 2010, at 10:30:20
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
>
> I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful.
>
> BobI would find it really ironic if posts that gained the most points as supportive were also found uncivil by the administration. Babblers could express their discontent messing with the point system. It sort of reminds me of the Sanjaya Effect where websites encouraged voters to vote for the worst contestant.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2010, at 10:42:21
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by nadezda on July 18, 2010, at 17:22:12
> I think having a rating system is cruel I guess.
>
> sigismund> Absoutely terrible, I might even say, execrable, and unhumane idea.
>
> NadezdaCould we have a discussion and not just throw around adjectives?
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2010, at 10:42:51
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming... » Deneb, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 18:28:30
> Why did you redirect my thread, and change my title?
Because my post was about the point system, and so was this thread.
> Hey Dr. Bob??? My double double quotes didn't work.
What did you try to double double quote?
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2010, at 10:43:15
In reply to Re: researchers like numbers more than emotions, posted by ron1953 on July 19, 2010, at 12:45:45
Hi, everyone,
I appreciate the thought you all are giving this and the feedback you all are offering. I think that improves the idea:
Posters could decline to accept rewards from others.
Posters could decline to have their point totals displayed.
Posters could decline to reward others.
Posters who did reward others could reward whoever they found helpful. It could be for informative posts, supportive posts, funny posts, whatever. I could make it explicit that the rewards were for subjectively being helpful and not for objectively being "high quality" or "right".
Posters could reward multiple other posters instead of having to choose just one.
It was never my idea to force posters to reward others, to force posters to use predetermined criteria, or to force posters to be motivated by points.
Neither do I see "reinforcement" as a dirty word. Life is full of reinforcements. When someone in the US donates to a charity, they're eligible for a tax deduction. That doesn't force them to be charitable or make them one of Pavlov's dogs.
I'm more concerned with effect than motivation. If someone posts something uncivil, but is trying to help, I still consider that uncivil. If they posted something helpful, but wanted to earn points, I'd still see that as helpful. Some people are therapists in part because they want to earn a living. I don't see them as lacking in humanity.
It would seem to be "truth in advertising" if people were drawn to a community by real posts rather than by advertisements.
I agree, someone doesn't have to be overly negative not to like a low point total. But if someone expects a low point total -- or to be weeded out, blocked, and gone -- that might be different. It's also possible that a poster might be OK with a low point total. If they're not competitive, they might not care much about their point total. In any case, competition can be healthy.
Was Bay's hypothetical post an example of how the point system could be used to bypass the civility rules? I'd consider it uncivil to put others down for not getting (or not accepting) points -- or for getting (or accepting) them.
I think she did ask an important question: how this could help posters learn and grow. Could you see a poster writing:
> Bay I award you 10 points because:
>
> a) you demonstrated tremendous empathy
> b) you made it clear that you understood my issue
> c) you made a ton of sense
> d) on top of all that, you made me laughLearning and growth could be based on "pragmatic experience". The idea would be positive reinforcement, not punishment. And I decide what's considered uncivil, while posters would decide what was considered helpful. Do posters expect other posters to be punishing? If so, that might not be the Lake Wobeher Effect, that might be the Faceful of Cat Effect.
It's true, what I and posters think may be helpful for this site don't always match up. I'm open to other new ideas about how to make this site better. Thanks for acknowledging other improvements and recognizing the potential here. You all are part of that potential. :-)
Bob
--
> Posting because I want to help someone when I can is positive reinforcement enough.
>
> I would never think of rating a persons post.
>
> Most threads offer not one best answer, but many different answers, from different perspectives. I enjoy, also, the occasional spontanious post thats just funny. It might be the funniest thing I hear all day.
>
> You'll certainly weed out the posters who are less knowledgeable.
>
> I think I offer enough posts that are helpful to feel like a valuable member. Not the most knowledgeable, by far, but I'm okay with that.
>
> ~Jade
>
> btw-"positive reinforcement"??? What are we now to you, Pavlov's dogs?> I remember many times in the past when I posted I was deep despair and had nowhere else to go with my distress. Fortunately at the time there were (and still are today) people here, and on the Samaritans, who were prepared to listen and respond as one human being to another. I can't even begin to imagine how awful it would have been to discover that they were doing it out of some competitive need for 'points' or e-bucks or other power trip. And what a loss for them in their humanity if they were.
>
> vwoolf> I think it was nice of Deneb to think of ways to improve the site, and it was a creative idea.
>
> You can 'attract' more people here by incentives and marketing such as Facebook and Twitter ... but it's kinda like sales-where the customer is incentivized to buy the product-then later ... regrets their decision when things turn out to be not so desirable...
>
> I noticed that recently you did try to make some (more subtle) improvements...there's still much room for growth, however. So good luck with the forum...there's alot of potential here. :)
>
> violette> I vote we use the block formula for a low score. Cause that's whats next in line for us.
>
> ~Jade> I don't think someone has to be overly negative to not like having a low rating
>
> Dinah> It is forcing an alternative motivation to post outside the purview of altruism.
>
> What would be your criteria for assigning a reward?
>
> - Scott> the rating system could be a tool to bypass the civility rules.
>
> I would like to know if you are going to allow us the choice of opting out, or will it be automatic?
>
> Justherself54> Gone will be many of the unique, smart, flawed, experienced, crazy, funny, supportive, compassionate, helpful, irritable, obsessive, insomniac ridden human type of posters...that make Babble the community that it is.
>
> Or..."one", or some, could brainstorm some new ideas and breathe some life back into Babble and make it as great as it once was, instead of turning it into a human reference guide.
>
> ~Jade> And how does getting a lot of low scores help? Will poorly scoring posters leave? Or learn to be better posters?? How?
>
> So do you see the poster writing:
>
> Bay your post rates a 1 because:
>
> a) you did not demonstrate sufficient amount of empathy
> b) you did not understand my issue
> c) you did not make any damn sense
> c) you did not make me laugh
> d) some combination of the above
>
> This way we can learn and grow as posters??
>
> BayLeaf> academics like book knowledge more than pragmatic experience
>
> ron1953
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2010, at 11:30:18
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Toph on July 20, 2010, at 10:30:20
> I would find it really ironic if posts that gained the most points as supportive were also found uncivil by the administration.
I hadn't thought of that, but I could see that happening: poster A starts a thread, poster B disagrees with poster A, poster C tries to support poster A by being uncivil to poster B, and poster A rewards poster C with points.
> Babblers could express their discontent messing with the point system.
That's possible, too: poster A starts a thread, poster B is uncivil to them, I block poster B, and poster A is more upset by my block than by poster B's incivility and expresses that by awarding points to poster B.
> It sort of reminds me of the Sanjaya Effect where websites encouraged voters to vote for the worst contestant.
I haven't heard of that, what happened?
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on July 20, 2010, at 11:43:34
In reply to Re: pragmatic experience, posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2010, at 10:43:15
>
> It would seem to be "truth in advertising" if people were drawn to a community by real posts rather than by advertisements.
>
>
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2010, at 12:39:15
In reply to Re: pragmatic experience, posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2010, at 10:43:15
Bah. Why even bother?
If you're going to do this... "thing", could you please confine it to the Neurotransmitter and Health Boards. Or at most Medications. My personal values would lead me to find it extremely offensive on Social and Psychology.
Others of course may feel differently. I think on this thread, there has been precisely one person who has felt differently. You.
When you're discussing pragmatic experience, might I ask you how it's worked in the past for you when you went ahead with something that was so negatively received? How did Twitter and Facebook work for you? Did you get what you wanted? My pragmatic soul revolts at the thought of using pragmatism to support this when pragmatism would demand that you recall past actions and the results. Could you please use some other school of philosophy?
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