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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 274 to 298 of 308. Go back in thread:
Posted by twinleaf on September 23, 2010, at 19:32:31
In reply to Re: to conclude....., posted by olivia12 on September 23, 2010, at 18:57:42
I was trying to address the fact that the rate of posting is probably only 5-10% of what it was several years ago, and, for many of us who were Babble members then, it seems as though those who do post are much less spontaneous and open- apparently much more wary of incurring blocks and civility warnings. Many people who posted almost daily now don't post at all because they are still upset about having their views misinterpreted and about the extremely unpopular decisions involving blocking, civility and social networking policies,
What I was saying would really only be meaningful to those of us who have been here a while. Babble really needs enthusiastic new members like you!
Posted by olivia12 on September 23, 2010, at 19:46:57
In reply to Re: to conclude..... » olivia12, posted by twinleaf on September 23, 2010, at 19:32:31
I don't know about any "warnings" or "blocks"--I'd feel micromanaged and be less likely to comment if I thought I'd be reprimanded! I find Dr.Bob to be refreshing and pretty liberal in what he lets happen here--in fact, I find it a bit out of the ordinary on a messege board. Still, I haven't been on here long enough to make any comparisons from then to now. Maybe this site was just hot and heavy when it started because it was new?
Posted by vwoolf on September 25, 2010, at 10:42:12
In reply to what might help, posted by twinleaf on September 22, 2010, at 20:10:30
In a post on the social board on 20th August, and I don't know how to create a link, sorry, Dr Bob wrote regarding the Facebook, Twitter debacle:
>I know that process left much to be desired, and I continue to regret that.
It was, to my mind, an important and courageous statement, and one which we should encourage Dr Bob to consider carefully. I know he cares deeply about PsychoBabble, and I think it is hard for him to see it declining like this, in part because of what he admits to have been his mistakes. It is my hope that he will eventually find a way to repair some of the damage that has been done to PsychoBabble, perhaps starting by removing the Twitter and Facebook buttons.
My personal take on the blocks and civility posts is that they are necessary and helpful in creating a frame. I think this is confirmed by the number of posters who return even after a year's block - there is something good and caring about a parent who sets consistent boundaries.
> To end on a positive note, Bob has created a wonderful site. It has remaiined tremendously helpful for information about treatments, and it could be very valuable once again in some of the more interpersonally sensitive forums, like Psychology and Social.
I couln't agree more.
Posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 19:10:16
In reply to Re: what might help » twinleaf, posted by vwoolf on September 25, 2010, at 10:42:12
Psychobabble is right at the leading edge of online communities. Posting topics and personal interactions are bound to be unexpected and stress-inducing at times, and knowing how to respond can be extremely challenging. I think we all look up to Bob as a very competent leader in these areas, and we would like very much to see him demonstrate the flexibility which being a leader in a new field necessarily requires. I think it is very reasonable, on our parts, to hope and expect that Bob will modify policies which hundreds of posters find unacceptable or even harnful. If he did this, it would be a "win-win" situation for everyone: Bob would not lose anything of importance to him or to Psychobabble, and he would gain the respect and trust of hundreds of babblers while still being able to administer the site effectively. On our parts, we would appreciate his flexibility tremendously,and would be very grateful to be rid of outmoded, unhelpful, damaging administrative policies. Many people have said here how much they would like to see these changes, and how much they would like to see the conditions of several years ago restored.. While no-one can say for sure, I think there is a very good chance that posting rates would increase a great deal if Bob made these quite modest changes. So........Bob?
Posted by muffled on September 25, 2010, at 19:18:20
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 19:10:16
Lovely to think of, but I no longer trust Bob.
Been burned too many times.
:(
Posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 20:03:26
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 25, 2010, at 19:18:20
vwoolf made such a good point - quoting Bob as saying that he had regrets about how things unfolded with the Facebook/Twitter situation. This was an example of a novel situation, with no similar situations in the past to help guide Bob in his decision-making. I feel certain that he acted in good faith throughout that whole process, and may well have been surprised by how negative our reactions were. I think it was terrific that he acknowledges later that he regretted some of his actions. I really respect anyone who does that! Still, there should be a next step: correcting what was wrong. I personally would be happy with a default position which protects our privacy, rather than one which automatically spreads our posts onto the social networks. It is important to me to continue to support this position, because I received two blocks of more than a year for (civilly) objecting to Facebook/Twitter.
At the moment, I am just suggesting one action: modifying the default position for Facebook/Twitter (or doing something comparable) . If this could be done, perhaps other issues like the exceedingly harsh and inappropriate blocks which I and others have received for civilly expressing a disagreement, might be reviewed by Bob and the community, with the goal of implementing policies which have, or can be worked on together until they have majority support.
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 12:45:20
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 20:03:26
I am totally confused...I can't seem to figure out what this discussion is about. I have always felt that my privacy was very respected here. What facebook/twitter buttons are you guys talking about please?
Posted by twinleaf on September 27, 2010, at 14:13:31
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 12:45:20
They are just below your message. When you joined Babble, there was a choice to opt out of having your posts automatically forwarded to Facebook and Twitter. Because you did not choose that option, all of your messages are automatically forwarded.
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 14:31:44
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by twinleaf on September 25, 2010, at 20:03:26
> vwoolf made such a good point - quoting Bob as saying that he had regrets about how things unfolded with the Facebook/Twitter situation. This was an example of a novel situation, with no similar situations in the past to help guide Bob in his decision-making. I feel certain that he acted in good faith throughout that whole process, and may well have been surprised by how negative our reactions were. I think it was terrific that he acknowledges later that he regretted some of his actions. I really respect anyone who does that!
*I respect people who respect others feelings about things...
He has spoken, but has he DONE anything???
Bob has always talked, and that is a fascinating thing in of itself...LOL, but it is his *actions* I am much more interested in.>Still, there should be a next step: correcting what was wrong. I personally would be happy with a default position which protects our privacy, rather than one which automatically spreads our posts onto the social networks. It is important to me to continue to support this position, because I received two blocks of more than a year for (civilly) objecting to Facebook/Twitter.
*yeah, blocks are yet another "issue" I have with how this place is run. Which is why I left. Why do i come back? Cuz it used to be a good place, so I come to visit is all, I read, but fear posting anything personal. I am ok posting here, but nothing personal anymore. :(
> At the moment, I am just suggesting one action: modifying the default position for Facebook/Twitter (or doing something comparable) . If this could be done, perhaps other issues like the exceedingly harsh and inappropriate blocks which I and others have received for civilly expressing a disagreement, might be reviewed by Bob and the community, with the goal of implementing policies which have, or can be worked on together until they have majority support.*ahhhhh you are sweet, thats helpful, but not enuf. We have tried to reason w/the admin in the past to no avail. In fact many of us put a great hearfelt effort into it.:(
I used to think my H could change some of his ways, but I have come to realize he either can't or won't. He would lose everything, money, family, rather than change.
Bob refused to change and babble has wilted.
He seems unable to take in what babblers tell him.
He lost all his deputies.
But he doesn't change :(
My H is a nice guy, but is nearly impossible to live with.
Proly Bob is a nice guy, but I can't live with how he runs this site.
Unfortunate, but that seems to be the way it is.
I suppose I hope something will change. Tho I won't fully trust this site even then for a long time to come.
But who knows...
Additionally there has been other issues http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955337.html
for example.
Bobs focus is undoubtedly to flog this site at all costs w/o concern as to whether if affects the quality for posters...I honestly just don't understand him at all.
Good luck....
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 14:33:12
In reply to Re: what might help » olivia12, posted by twinleaf on September 27, 2010, at 14:13:31
Well, I never clicked on "like" for either of them and so the default remains private, right? It would be extremely weird should any of this be sent to other accounts unless I was so into sharing that I opted for that.
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 14:45:02
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 14:31:44
I am more confused than ever now. If one doesn't want to be involved in facebook/twitter exchanges then do not click on the link. I have no idea what all of the fear over lack of privacy is about!
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 15:35:08
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 14:45:02
> I am more confused than ever now. If one doesn't want to be involved in facebook/twitter exchanges then do not click on the link. I have no idea what all of the fear over lack of privacy is about!
*LOL, its a long and sordid story.
But at one time this site was quite busy and we developed a close knit group of people. People came and went and new people came and were welcomed and it was good.
The site was always searchable by google, which makes it very easy to find.
However for some reason unbeknownst to me, Bob felt the need to add the buttons that make it easy, and puts it in your face, that you can just click and post posts to facebook/tweets etc.
This could have been done before, but would have requiered much more effort, eg cutting and pasting, or copying links etc. This is much more of a conscious action than just clicking a button.
So anyways, we had felt reasonably safe here and would post about how we were doing etc, but now I am reluctant, cuz its just waaaay too easy to spread stuff around that I post. Whether on a thread of my own or someone elses. Bob in fact seems to be actively interested in spreading babble as far and wide as he can....and I don't know why??? It certainly hasn't made it a busier place....just more scarey.
Also, the posts are all archived here forever, they are not deleted after a time. As well, Bob will seldom remove posts, even if they are very hurtful and causing ongoing probs for someone.
As well, there is a possibility we will be 'studied' becuase that is what Bob(the owner) does and has in the past.
I post on a diff site, that is googlable, but doesn't archive posts, doesn't encourage posts to be placed elsewhere. So it feels more private, though we are all still careful there as it is the net.
However, there we feel more like we are talking in a restaraunt, rather than having what were are saying displayed on some large screen TV in the street....
THAT is the difference.
Its also in HOW Bob brought it into being. Most were against it, and spent much time expressing why etc, but still he did it, and he has done things like this in the past. The people that made babble, babble didn't seem to matter to him, he only cared about the 'bigger picture'. Which is why most babblers bailed on him.
Hope that answers your question.
Posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 15:51:04
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 15:35:08
Thank you, Muff. However, if you don't wish to partake in FB/twitter, just don't click on the links. I didn't and feel that my privacy is respected.
Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2010, at 17:03:23
In reply to Re: what might help » muffled, posted by olivia12 on September 27, 2010, at 15:51:04
> Thank you, Muff. However, if you don't wish to partake in FB/twitter, just don't click on the links. I didn't and feel that my privacy is respected.
For the record, the links aren't just for you to post your own posts elsewhere. Anyone can use the links to post your post anywhere they wish. The links have numbers next to them. On at least one of your posts in this thread, there's a number next to the Facebook link that shows at least one person clicked that link. It doesn't mean that they necessarily followed through and posted it anywhere. But someone, either you or someone else, used the button.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/963975.html
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 17:25:08
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2010, at 17:03:23
> > Thank you, Muff. However, if you don't wish to partake in FB/twitter, just don't click on the links. I didn't and feel that my privacy is respected.
>
> For the record, the links aren't just for you to post your own posts elsewhere. Anyone can use the links to post your post anywhere they wish. The links have numbers next to them. On at least one of your posts in this thread, there's a number next to the Facebook link that shows at least one person clicked that link. It doesn't mean that they necessarily followed through and posted it anywhere. But someone, either you or someone else, used the button.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/963975.html
>
>*Thx Dinah, I think alot of people are not clear on that.
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 17:26:04
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 17:25:08
just testing...
Posted by PartlyCloudy on September 30, 2010, at 7:26:22
In reply to I have an idea for Babble, posted by Deneb on July 2, 2010, at 15:03:50
Dr Bob,
How about a decision or declaration from you regarding this proposal of a point system for posts?Have you reached a decision? I hope you'll agree, from looking at the length and emotional tone of this thread, that the Babble community is seeking resolution here.
A word from you regarding whether or not a point system will be instituted would seem to be suitable.
Thank you
pc
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 3, 2010, at 13:08:17
In reply to what might help, posted by twinleaf on September 22, 2010, at 20:10:30
> communications by the moderator are that poor and inaccurate.
Would anyone be willing to try to show twinleaf how she might rephrase the above or to encourage her to apologize? You may have the power to help her avoid being blocked again.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 3, 2010, at 13:08:55
In reply to Re: what might help, posted by muffled on September 27, 2010, at 15:35:08
> these people's strong/ heartfelt/ sometimes-frantic/ clearly-put-forth requests were overridden. They might have been "heard" but they weren't acted on.
>
> I'd like it if the wishes of a HUGE number of participants here were respected. To me, in the case I mention, the wishes of a vast number of members were just ignored.
>
> KathI value input even when I don't act on it. At the same time, a quote I saw the other day:
> > "If I had asked my customers what they wanted," Ford said, "they would have said a faster horse."
--
> The site was always searchable by google, which makes it very easy to find.
> Bob felt the need to add the buttons that make it easy, and puts it in your face, that you can just click and post posts to facebook/tweets etc.
> This could have been done before, but would have requiered much more effort, eg cutting and pasting, or copying links etc. This is much more of a conscious action than just clicking a button.
> there we feel more like we are talking in a restaraunt, rather than having what were are saying displayed on some large screen TV in the street....
>
> muffledClicking a button is easier than cutting and pasting, but not doing anything is even easier than clicking a button, and not doing anything is what's required for posts to be displayed on Google's large screen. You can hide the buttons, and maybe make it feel more like a restaurant here, but that may be a false sense of security:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100321/msgs/951109.html
I think there's more concern now than there used to be about "the perils of the early digital age". Among "a great many people", not just Babblers:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955800.html
Maybe one difference here is that someone else can be seen as responsible.
Bob
Posted by olivia12 on October 3, 2010, at 16:19:01
In reply to Re: being blocked again, posted by Dr. Bob on October 3, 2010, at 13:08:17
Frankly, I find the idea of blocks to be condescending and a bit over the top, Doc Bob. I know your intentions are good, but we are all adults and so maybe the "time-outs" do not ring well with those on this site. Yes, the MI are fragile, but isn't everyone? The "normal" adult population does not do well with criticism and such. Disrespectful posts should be addressed, but maybe just a "wow, you are so not nice!" would suffice. Is just IMO.
Posted by twinleaf on October 3, 2010, at 16:28:15
In reply to to conclude....., posted by twinleaf on September 23, 2010, at 15:44:21
I will be glad to withdraw that sentence. It's a strange experience to have you overlook the many positive things I said (very truthfully) about your work here, in favor of preparing to block me for a year over a very tiny issue which probably only you have difficulty with. It would be wonderful if you would address some of the other more important issues which I discussed. These are the larger issues which concern everyone here. We do not expect that you will do things the way we ask, necessarily, but an honest, mutually respectful discussion would do wonders for the morale of Babble.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 3, 2010, at 17:08:55
In reply to retraction, posted by twinleaf on October 3, 2010, at 16:28:15
> I will be glad to withdraw that sentence.
Thanks.
> It would be wonderful if you would address some of the other more important issues which I discussed.
What other issues? I don't always keep reading when a poster becomes uncivil.
Bob
Posted by olivia12 on October 3, 2010, at 17:25:10
In reply to retraction, posted by twinleaf on October 3, 2010, at 16:28:15
It is in my opinion only that you should only say your "I'm sorry's" to those that you offended--IF you feel this way. You should not be forced to respond in a childlike fashion and be afraid that you will be booted if you do not behave. There are a lot of support sites out there and I feel it is not okay to feel "shunned" for your opinions or carelessness. We all get angry and speak out of turn--I have no idea what you said that landed you in this position. Nevertheless, I strongly feel that you should not beg to be a participant here. Maybe I am outta line, but I mean what I say. Good luck to you:)
Posted by twinleaf on October 4, 2010, at 10:43:04
In reply to Re: retraction » twinleaf, posted by olivia12 on October 3, 2010, at 17:25:10
The statement which received a "civility warning" was:
"communications by the moderator are poor and inaccurate."
It's not important to me how any one statement is perceived, and if it will help my overall message to be received with an open mind, I'm willing to remove any statements which Bob finds personally offensive.. Bob finds this particular sentence uncivil; others may well find it both civil and true. I do put a lot of caring and effort into my posts here, and naturally hope that the messages they contain will be given thoughtful consideration.
That's what matters to me.
Posted by twinleaf on October 5, 2010, at 17:33:27
In reply to Re: other more important issues, posted by Dr. Bob on October 3, 2010, at 17:08:55
I did not intend any incivility towards Bob, and never have; I was drawing attention to what has been widely perceived to be a communication problem at Babble. I used language nearly identical to that used by a number of previous posters. It had not drawn civility warnings prior to the one I was given; this led me to believe it was accepted language for a known problem. Even so, I understand that there are bound to be uneven applications of the civility rules. If withdrawing a particular statement will be helpful, I do not mind doing it.
I do feel that Bob's reply, indicating that he did not read my posts, which I did my best to ensure were as supportive and constructive as I could make them, raised additional difficulties for me. "What other issues? I don't always keep reading when a poster becomes uncivil" is an example of how quickly and painfully communication can break down here. To know that, as part of the consequences for me, the posts I had put my best effort into would not be read felt like a hard slap in the face. I feel that it is very......uncivil.
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