![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LOOPS on January 25, 2004, at 10:56:20
Hi -
Just thought those of you who suffer from depression, anxiety and lack of motivation/concentration and who are socially withdrawn might find this helpful.
I have been through a lot of things like 5-htp, tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, fish oil, ala, alc, various 'brain' formulas but to mention only a few, and I have finally found a good combination.
DMAE - This is the best thing ever. It has decreased anxiety, increased my motivation, concentration, and after taking it for 3 months solidly, it is still working. I take 150mg pure dmae every day (100mg morning, 50mg lunch). It has also helped with my insomnia (falling asleep easier although still having a few probs waking early).
picamilon - I take 50mg 3x daily. Excellent for anxiety - very subtle though - is not like a sledgehammer effect but I do notice that I am not irritable and life seems to be going smoother. I am also finding social interactions easier and less traumatic, and this stuff is also increasing concentration.
Vinpocetine - 2 x 10mg daily. Not sure if this has really had huge effect, but as I have genetic disposition for forgetfulness of names and words, and it is supposed to help insomnia, thought I would add it in. Has not caused me any problems, and my word recall has improved recently.
Lithium orotate - 2 x tablets per day. Subtle but definite evening out of my moods, and also has helped with my drinking habit (not drinking nearly so much in the evenings).
Magnesium and potassium orotate - I take one tablet of these twice a day, mostly because I have eczema and asthma, and also because I do a lot of sport. Has also helped with insomnia.
Calcium orotate - has practically eliminated my need to binge on food, which has drastically helped my problem with bulimia. Taken on empty stomach really does act as an appetite suppressant. This coupled with my change to eating more fruit/veg and protein like eggs and cutting out flour, wheat, grains, dairy has been very very useful in the battle against the ED.
Lecithin - take this just to make sure have enough choline going round for the DMAE to pick up and use, although not sure it is really necessary.
Out of all these, I would say DMAE and picamilon have been by far the most useful. Before when I was taking 5htp (for a year) my depression got very bad, which led me to think it was not seretonin-based. When I tried things to raise dopamine, I would get very irritable and my insomnia got very bad (SJW, tyrosine), so it didn't seem to be dopamine related either.
DMAE works on cholinergenic system, and picamilon gaba system, so I seem to have hit the nail on the head with addressing these two 'systems'. DMAE is like nothing else - it seems to make me more composed yet motivated without feeling edgy or unnaturally stimulated. As I react fairly strongly to any supplement/med, I would say this is a fairly mild yet potent substance for those who tend to get all the side-effects of meds and more.
I even tried piracetam and hydergine once, but they felt very unnatural and I suddenly found I was pacing the garden and smoking a lot, which didn't happen with the DMAE. If anything I seem to have got more will-power on the DMAE.
When both apathy and anxiety are present, it is really hard to find something that will help. I think I may have now done this.
Anyway I'm posting this because maybe it will save time and money for a few other people as well.
Lou
Posted by joebob on January 25, 2004, at 12:22:01
In reply to Regime that is working at last- anxiety/depression, posted by LOOPS on January 25, 2004, at 10:56:20
Posted by buddhi on February 9, 2004, at 22:18:15
In reply to Regime that is working at last- anxiety/depression, posted by LOOPS on January 25, 2004, at 10:56:20
> Hi -
>
> Just thought those of you who suffer from depression, anxiety and lack of motivation/concentration and who are socially withdrawn might find this helpful.
>
> I have been through a lot of things like 5-htp, tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, fish oil, ala, alc, various 'brain' formulas but to mention only a few, and I have finally found a good combination.
>
> DMAE - This is the best thing ever. It has decreased anxiety, increased my motivation, concentration, and after taking it for 3 months solidly, it is still working. I take 150mg pure dmae every day (100mg morning, 50mg lunch). It has also helped with my insomnia (falling asleep easier although still having a few probs waking early).
>
> picamilon - I take 50mg 3x daily. Excellent for anxiety - very subtle though - is not like a sledgehammer effect but I do notice that I am not irritable and life seems to be going smoother. I am also finding social interactions easier and less traumatic, and this stuff is also increasing concentration.
>
> Vinpocetine - 2 x 10mg daily. Not sure if this has really had huge effect, but as I have genetic disposition for forgetfulness of names and words, and it is supposed to help insomnia, thought I would add it in. Has not caused me any problems, and my word recall has improved recently.
>
> Lithium orotate - 2 x tablets per day. Subtle but definite evening out of my moods, and also has helped with my drinking habit (not drinking nearly so much in the evenings).
>
> Magnesium and potassium orotate - I take one tablet of these twice a day, mostly because I have eczema and asthma, and also because I do a lot of sport. Has also helped with insomnia.
>
> Calcium orotate - has practically eliminated my need to binge on food, which has drastically helped my problem with bulimia. Taken on empty stomach really does act as an appetite suppressant. This coupled with my change to eating more fruit/veg and protein like eggs and cutting out flour, wheat, grains, dairy has been very very useful in the battle against the ED.
>
> Lecithin - take this just to make sure have enough choline going round for the DMAE to pick up and use, although not sure it is really necessary.
>
> Out of all these, I would say DMAE and picamilon have been by far the most useful. Before when I was taking 5htp (for a year) my depression got very bad, which led me to think it was not seretonin-based. When I tried things to raise dopamine, I would get very irritable and my insomnia got very bad (SJW, tyrosine), so it didn't seem to be dopamine related either.
>
> DMAE works on cholinergenic system, and picamilon gaba system, so I seem to have hit the nail on the head with addressing these two 'systems'. DMAE is like nothing else - it seems to make me more composed yet motivated without feeling edgy or unnaturally stimulated. As I react fairly strongly to any supplement/med, I would say this is a fairly mild yet potent substance for those who tend to get all the side-effects of meds and more.
>
> I even tried piracetam and hydergine once, but they felt very unnatural and I suddenly found I was pacing the garden and smoking a lot, which didn't happen with the DMAE. If anything I seem to have got more will-power on the DMAE.
>
> When both apathy and anxiety are present, it is really hard to find something that will help. I think I may have now done this.
>
> Anyway I'm posting this because maybe it will save time and money for a few other people as well.
>
> Lou
Lou-Hi wondering if you could tell me where you bought your picamilion????? United states or overseas and your reccomendation on how to use it ! Thanks you can send info to amy@pause.com thanks so much!!! Take care Buddhi
Posted by buddhi on February 9, 2004, at 22:19:32
In reply to Regime that is working at last- anxiety/depression, posted by LOOPS on January 25, 2004, at 10:56:20
> Hi -
>
> Just thought those of you who suffer from depression, anxiety and lack of motivation/concentration and who are socially withdrawn might find this helpful.
>
> I have been through a lot of things like 5-htp, tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, fish oil, ala, alc, various 'brain' formulas but to mention only a few, and I have finally found a good combination.
>
> DMAE - This is the best thing ever. It has decreased anxiety, increased my motivation, concentration, and after taking it for 3 months solidly, it is still working. I take 150mg pure dmae every day (100mg morning, 50mg lunch). It has also helped with my insomnia (falling asleep easier although still having a few probs waking early).
>
> picamilon - I take 50mg 3x daily. Excellent for anxiety - very subtle though - is not like a sledgehammer effect but I do notice that I am not irritable and life seems to be going smoother. I am also finding social interactions easier and less traumatic, and this stuff is also increasing concentration.
>
> Vinpocetine - 2 x 10mg daily. Not sure if this has really had huge effect, but as I have genetic disposition for forgetfulness of names and words, and it is supposed to help insomnia, thought I would add it in. Has not caused me any problems, and my word recall has improved recently.
>
> Lithium orotate - 2 x tablets per day. Subtle but definite evening out of my moods, and also has helped with my drinking habit (not drinking nearly so much in the evenings).
>
> Magnesium and potassium orotate - I take one tablet of these twice a day, mostly because I have eczema and asthma, and also because I do a lot of sport. Has also helped with insomnia.
>
> Calcium orotate - has practically eliminated my need to binge on food, which has drastically helped my problem with bulimia. Taken on empty stomach really does act as an appetite suppressant. This coupled with my change to eating more fruit/veg and protein like eggs and cutting out flour, wheat, grains, dairy has been very very useful in the battle against the ED.
>
> Lecithin - take this just to make sure have enough choline going round for the DMAE to pick up and use, although not sure it is really necessary.
>
> Out of all these, I would say DMAE and picamilon have been by far the most useful. Before when I was taking 5htp (for a year) my depression got very bad, which led me to think it was not seretonin-based. When I tried things to raise dopamine, I would get very irritable and my insomnia got very bad (SJW, tyrosine), so it didn't seem to be dopamine related either.
>
> DMAE works on cholinergenic system, and picamilon gaba system, so I seem to have hit the nail on the head with addressing these two 'systems'. DMAE is like nothing else - it seems to make me more composed yet motivated without feeling edgy or unnaturally stimulated. As I react fairly strongly to any supplement/med, I would say this is a fairly mild yet potent substance for those who tend to get all the side-effects of meds and more.
>
> I even tried piracetam and hydergine once, but they felt very unnatural and I suddenly found I was pacing the garden and smoking a lot, which didn't happen with the DMAE. If anything I seem to have got more will-power on the DMAE.
>
> When both apathy and anxiety are present, it is really hard to find something that will help. I think I may have now done this.
>
> Anyway I'm posting this because maybe it will save time and money for a few other people as well.
>
> Lou
Also Wondering where you got your dmae??? Thanks again amy@pause.com take care buddhi
Posted by dingbat on February 15, 2004, at 9:48:52
In reply to Re: Regime that is working at last- anxiety/depression » LOOPS, posted by buddhi on February 9, 2004, at 22:19:32
Buddhi:
Hi there! Try Solal Technologies website for pretty cheap DMAE. They are however very reputable. http://www.solaltech.com/LOOPS:
Hi - I like your "cocktail" and think I might give it a try. Thanks for sharing it.Regards, Dingbat
Posted by LOOPS on November 5, 2004, at 16:07:31
In reply to Regime that is working at last- anxiety/depression, posted by LOOPS on January 25, 2004, at 10:56:20
Hello everybody again -
just been having some thoughts, as day 4 of taking high dose fish oil is not really enough for me (with lecithin and pharm 5htp).
So I was recently reviewing an old post of mine (below), and realized the reason I gave up on this 'old' regime, was probably due to giving up taking the vinpocetine, and not taking anything serotonin-based (i.e. 'good quality' 5htp) - there was a time I left the vinpo out for awhile (probably couldn't be bothered to take it - don't remember any other reasons). However, after my recent rediscovery of the effects of vinpocetine on depression and social alienation, I would revise the below post to say that vinpo was probably paramount in recovery from depression at this time.
Also, awhile after this post, I became a high-fibre, low-fat vegan (don't even ask!), and ended up creating a lot of deficiencies which didn't help anxiety at all. If you're anxious, YOU NEED FATS & ANIMAL PROTEIN. Well, I do anyway.
So, I was correct in thinking my probs are cholinergenic and gaba-based, but I was wrong to think serotonin didn't play just a bit of a part, especially considering my chronic lifelong insomnia.
I saw a nice chart recently (hypericum.com) which, although oversimplified, did state that a way to enhance serotonin was 5htp, dopamine vinpocetine, and gaba - well, B6 & zinc & l-glutamine. However, I can't take glutamine - it makes me agitated, but I do take B6 and zinc. However this is still not enough - hence why picamilon is good.
The other reason I left off this regime, was that I was taking TOO MUCH picamilon. Unfortunately, I failed to recognize this, and just gave up on it. Many people get good results with picamilon, only to ditch it because it eventually seems to have the opposite effect on them (agitated, lack of concentration etc.). So, frequent breaks and limited consumption might be the answer.
The other pitfall in this regime is taking DMAE without B5 - I have experimented with this, and pure DMAE on its own makes me a bit moody and agi - however, combined with B5 and maybe a bit of lecithin, good results.
The lith orotate - well, I was taking this with SJW for awhile, and although it worked, it worked too well on 3-4 tabs a day. I think I was right in taking only 2 a day (as below) - but then, my mood swings might be minor compared with someone who is bipolar (I have no idea if I am - I always suspected a *mild* form, but what really is bipolar anyway?? Seems to be a nice generalization for mood problems sometimes).
So, I'm reinstating a few of the things below carefully, plus I am continuing with the fish oil. I am also back to eating higher protein and lower carb, as it is the only thing that doesn't pack on the pounds and at the same time stabilizes me somewhat.
So there you go. Hope that's useful or interesting to someone out there.
Loops
Hi -
>
> Just thought those of you who suffer from depression, anxiety and lack of motivation/concentration and who are socially withdrawn might find this helpful.
>
> I have been through a lot of things like 5-htp, tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, fish oil, ala, alc, various 'brain' formulas but to mention only a few, and I have finally found a good combination.
>
> DMAE - This is the best thing ever. It has decreased anxiety, increased my motivation, concentration, and after taking it for 3 months solidly, it is still working. I take 150mg pure dmae every day (100mg morning, 50mg lunch). It has also helped with my insomnia (falling asleep easier although still having a few probs waking early).
>
> picamilon - I take 50mg 3x daily. Excellent for anxiety - very subtle though - is not like a sledgehammer effect but I do notice that I am not irritable and life seems to be going smoother. I am also finding social interactions easier and less traumatic, and this stuff is also increasing concentration.
>
> Vinpocetine - 2 x 10mg daily. Not sure if this has really had huge effect, but as I have genetic disposition for forgetfulness of names and words, and it is supposed to help insomnia, thought I would add it in. Has not caused me any problems, and my word recall has improved recently.
>
> Lithium orotate - 2 x tablets per day. Subtle but definite evening out of my moods, and also has helped with my drinking habit (not drinking nearly so much in the evenings).
>
> Magnesium and potassium orotate - I take one tablet of these twice a day, mostly because I have eczema and asthma, and also because I do a lot of sport. Has also helped with insomnia.
>
> Calcium orotate - has practically eliminated my need to binge on food, which has drastically helped my problem with bulimia. Taken on empty stomach really does act as an appetite suppressant. This coupled with my change to eating more fruit/veg and protein like eggs and cutting out flour, wheat, grains, dairy has been very very useful in the battle against the ED.
>
> Lecithin - take this just to make sure have enough choline going round for the DMAE to pick up and use, although not sure it is really necessary.
>
> Out of all these, I would say DMAE and picamilon have been by far the most useful. Before when I was taking 5htp (for a year) my depression got very bad, which led me to think it was not seretonin-based. When I tried things to raise dopamine, I would get very irritable and my insomnia got very bad (SJW, tyrosine), so it didn't seem to be dopamine related either.
>
> DMAE works on cholinergenic system, and picamilon gaba system, so I seem to have hit the nail on the head with addressing these two 'systems'. DMAE is like nothing else - it seems to make me more composed yet motivated without feeling edgy or unnaturally stimulated. As I react fairly strongly to any supplement/med, I would say this is a fairly mild yet potent substance for those who tend to get all the side-effects of meds and more.
>
> I even tried piracetam and hydergine once, but they felt very unnatural and I suddenly found I was pacing the garden and smoking a lot, which didn't happen with the DMAE. If anything I seem to have got more will-power on the DMAE.
>
> When both apathy and anxiety are present, it is really hard to find something that will help. I think I may have now done this.
>
> Anyway I'm posting this because maybe it will save time and money for a few other people as well.
>
> Lou
Posted by KaraS on November 6, 2004, at 0:08:50
In reply to Re: Regime that is working at last- anxiety/depres, posted by LOOPS on November 5, 2004, at 16:07:31
> Hello everybody again -
>
> just been having some thoughts, as day 4 of taking high dose fish oil is not really enough for me (with lecithin and pharm 5htp).
>
> So I was recently reviewing an old post of mine (below), and realized the reason I gave up on this 'old' regime, was probably due to giving up taking the vinpocetine, and not taking anything serotonin-based (i.e. 'good quality' 5htp) - there was a time I left the vinpo out for awhile (probably couldn't be bothered to take it - don't remember any other reasons). However, after my recent rediscovery of the effects of vinpocetine on depression and social alienation, I would revise the below post to say that vinpo was probably paramount in recovery from depression at this time.
>
> Also, awhile after this post, I became a high-fibre, low-fat vegan (don't even ask!), and ended up creating a lot of deficiencies which didn't help anxiety at all. If you're anxious, YOU NEED FATS & ANIMAL PROTEIN. Well, I do anyway.
>
> So, I was correct in thinking my probs are cholinergenic and gaba-based, but I was wrong to think serotonin didn't play just a bit of a part, especially considering my chronic lifelong insomnia.
>
> I saw a nice chart recently (hypericum.com) which, although oversimplified, did state that a way to enhance serotonin was 5htp, dopamine vinpocetine, and gaba - well, B6 & zinc & l-glutamine. However, I can't take glutamine - it makes me agitated, but I do take B6 and zinc. However this is still not enough - hence why picamilon is good.
>
> The other reason I left off this regime, was that I was taking TOO MUCH picamilon. Unfortunately, I failed to recognize this, and just gave up on it. Many people get good results with picamilon, only to ditch it because it eventually seems to have the opposite effect on them (agitated, lack of concentration etc.). So, frequent breaks and limited consumption might be the answer.
>
> The other pitfall in this regime is taking DMAE without B5 - I have experimented with this, and pure DMAE on its own makes me a bit moody and agi - however, combined with B5 and maybe a bit of lecithin, good results.
>
> The lith orotate - well, I was taking this with SJW for awhile, and although it worked, it worked too well on 3-4 tabs a day. I think I was right in taking only 2 a day (as below) - but then, my mood swings might be minor compared with someone who is bipolar (I have no idea if I am - I always suspected a *mild* form, but what really is bipolar anyway?? Seems to be a nice generalization for mood problems sometimes).
>
> So, I'm reinstating a few of the things below carefully, plus I am continuing with the fish oil. I am also back to eating higher protein and lower carb, as it is the only thing that doesn't pack on the pounds and at the same time stabilizes me somewhat.
>
> So there you go. Hope that's useful or interesting to someone out there.
>
> Loops
> Hi -
> >
> > Just thought those of you who suffer from depression, anxiety and lack of motivation/concentration and who are socially withdrawn might find this helpful.
> >
> > I have been through a lot of things like 5-htp, tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, fish oil, ala, alc, various 'brain' formulas but to mention only a few, and I have finally found a good combination.
> >
> > DMAE - This is the best thing ever. It has decreased anxiety, increased my motivation, concentration, and after taking it for 3 months solidly, it is still working. I take 150mg pure dmae every day (100mg morning, 50mg lunch). It has also helped with my insomnia (falling asleep easier although still having a few probs waking early).
> >
> > picamilon - I take 50mg 3x daily. Excellent for anxiety - very subtle though - is not like a sledgehammer effect but I do notice that I am not irritable and life seems to be going smoother. I am also finding social interactions easier and less traumatic, and this stuff is also increasing concentration.
> >
> > Vinpocetine - 2 x 10mg daily. Not sure if this has really had huge effect, but as I have genetic disposition for forgetfulness of names and words, and it is supposed to help insomnia, thought I would add it in. Has not caused me any problems, and my word recall has improved recently.
> >
> > Lithium orotate - 2 x tablets per day. Subtle but definite evening out of my moods, and also has helped with my drinking habit (not drinking nearly so much in the evenings).
> >
> > Magnesium and potassium orotate - I take one tablet of these twice a day, mostly because I have eczema and asthma, and also because I do a lot of sport. Has also helped with insomnia.
> >
> > Calcium orotate - has practically eliminated my need to binge on food, which has drastically helped my problem with bulimia. Taken on empty stomach really does act as an appetite suppressant. This coupled with my change to eating more fruit/veg and protein like eggs and cutting out flour, wheat, grains, dairy has been very very useful in the battle against the ED.
> >
> > Lecithin - take this just to make sure have enough choline going round for the DMAE to pick up and use, although not sure it is really necessary.
> >
> > Out of all these, I would say DMAE and picamilon have been by far the most useful. Before when I was taking 5htp (for a year) my depression got very bad, which led me to think it was not seretonin-based. When I tried things to raise dopamine, I would get very irritable and my insomnia got very bad (SJW, tyrosine), so it didn't seem to be dopamine related either.
> >
> > DMAE works on cholinergenic system, and picamilon gaba system, so I seem to have hit the nail on the head with addressing these two 'systems'. DMAE is like nothing else - it seems to make me more composed yet motivated without feeling edgy or unnaturally stimulated. As I react fairly strongly to any supplement/med, I would say this is a fairly mild yet potent substance for those who tend to get all the side-effects of meds and more.
> >
> > I even tried piracetam and hydergine once, but they felt very unnatural and I suddenly found I was pacing the garden and smoking a lot, which didn't happen with the DMAE. If anything I seem to have got more will-power on the DMAE.
> >
> > When both apathy and anxiety are present, it is really hard to find something that will help. I think I may have now done this.
> >
> > Anyway I'm posting this because maybe it will save time and money for a few other people as well.
> >
> > Lou
>
>
Thanks, LOOPS
It is interesting to me to see what works for people and why. Helps me to refocus on things I haven't thought about for a while. Let us know how the new regime goes for you.Take care,
Kara
Posted by Marty on March 7, 2008, at 9:43:35
In reply to Re: Regime that is working at last- anxiety/depres, posted by LOOPS on November 5, 2004, at 16:07:31
Hi Loops,That would be nice if you could give us an update on what's working for you and what's not 4 years later ..
There wasn't many people in this thread, but you can be sure a lot of people are finding those threads on search engine in their quest for answers. Please share yours with us.
/\/\arty
Posted by Loops on March 7, 2008, at 10:07:20
In reply to Loops: A 4 years later update ? :) » LOOPS, posted by Marty on March 7, 2008, at 9:43:35
Hi Marty -
yeah I haven't posted much here as of late.
Well, 4 years on I would have to say most of that stuff I was taking I have ditched - not that it wasn't helpful, but in the end I found 2 basic things allowed me to lead a relatively anxiety-free life -
1) I went back to a high fat low-carb diet. This eliminated most of my anxiety, depression and concentration issues. It is known that this kind of diet boosts gaba production and reduces excessive glutamate activity; it also resolved my eating disorder, eczema and acne.
2) I started supplementing magnesium. This really helped my depression and allows me to sleep properly.
Other things I have found helpful and have stuck with:
chelated zinc 10-20mg per day - makes me feel good and eliminates any pms that magnesium doesn't get rid of (along with my diet).
B complex with extra thiamin - ditto - and helps with sleep.
I take a multi as well, but right now I'm trying to figure out if that should include copper, as I haven't been tested.
I also take melatonin 1mg at night and haven't noticed any reduction in effectiveness over several years.
I do try to balance my magnesium intake with calcium - but it usually ends up I take more magnesium and only a little calcium every now and then.
Hope that was helpful
Loops
Posted by Marty on March 7, 2008, at 10:18:32
In reply to Re: Loops: A 4 years later update ? :), posted by Loops on March 7, 2008, at 10:07:20
Hi Loops,
Thanks for the update. :)
Happy to know your doing great./\/\arty
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 8, 2008, at 2:46:10
In reply to Re: Loops: A 4 years later update ? :), posted by Loops on March 7, 2008, at 10:07:20
hi loops,
just curious: does your current regime render even the DMAE negligible?
Posted by Loops on March 8, 2008, at 12:26:30
In reply to Re: Loops: A 4 years later update ? :), posted by g_g_g_unit on March 8, 2008, at 2:46:10
Hi -
yes, I don't use that anymore. It made me very focused but I noticed I wasn't as creative anymore after awhile. However it is very good as a quit smoking aid - although I never managed to quit I did cut down a lot.
Loops
This is the end of the thread.
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