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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laurie_lu on September 25, 2004, at 22:24:26
I've been taking SJW for about 4 weeks now and I've been off Effexor completely for 2 weeks after a slow tapering. I'm still experiencing frequent dizzy spells and nausea. Could this be the SJW causing this or are these feelings to be expected even after being off Effexor for 2 weeks? Or a combination of withdrawl and SJW?
Thanks,
Laurie
Posted by raybakes on September 26, 2004, at 14:59:15
In reply to 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor r/, posted by laurie_lu on September 25, 2004, at 22:24:26
> I've been taking SJW for about 4 weeks now and I've been off Effexor completely for 2 weeks after a slow tapering. I'm still experiencing frequent dizzy spells and nausea. Could this be the SJW causing this or are these feelings to be expected even after being off Effexor for 2 weeks? Or a combination of withdrawl and SJW?
Hi laurie, tried to reply once but seems to have got lost! Haven't experienced withdrawal myself, but did notice a few websites that discuss the symptoms.As effexor is a serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor, have you tried anything like 5 HT for serotonin, or norival for noradrenaline? Probably best to check with your doctor if you do try them.
Ray
Posted by laurie_lu on September 27, 2004, at 22:05:22
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor r/ » laurie_lu, posted by raybakes on September 26, 2004, at 14:59:15
5-HTP has caught my attention over the last couple days and I'm not sure what to think of it. Should I stop the SJW and go with 5-HTP or use them both? There seems to be two opposing opinions on mixing the two. Some say it is fine while others say it will cause Seritonin Syndrome.
Posted by raybakes on September 29, 2004, at 4:06:10
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor » raybakes, posted by laurie_lu on September 27, 2004, at 22:05:22
> 5-HTP has caught my attention over the last couple days and I'm not sure what to think of it. Should I stop the SJW and go with 5-HTP or use them both? There seems to be two opposing opinions on mixing the two. Some say it is fine while others say it will cause Seritonin Syndrome.
SJW is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, and some articles don't recommend taking it with amino acids/amino acid related compounds.
I've found different SJW supplements have had different effects for me, but I've used SJW as more of a liver support, than for depression - One of the complaints about SJW from doctors is that it upregulates gut and liver enzymes that break down toxins, including drugs, so changing the required drug dosage.
Serotonin synthesis does require other nutrients, so it can be useful to take them too - some people don't do that well with too much B6 though, as too much 5HT can get converted to serotonin in the gut and cause bowel problems - serotonin is the main neurotransmitter that drives the bowel, and people with IBS quite often have high serotonin.
Posted by Optimist on October 3, 2004, at 12:53:27
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor » raybakes, posted by laurie_lu on September 27, 2004, at 22:05:22
> 5-HTP has caught my attention over the last couple days and I'm not sure what to think of it. Should I stop the SJW and go with 5-HTP or use them both? There seems to be two opposing opinions on mixing the two. Some say it is fine while others say it will cause Seritonin Syndrome.
I would suggest taking SJW and 5-HTP together. The 5-HTP works best if taken with juice on an empty stomach. The sugar/insulin helps transport the 5-HTP to the brain. Just start with low doses first then work your way up. If you start small there shouldn't be a problem with serotonin syndrome. I never had any problems with it.
Concerning SJW as having MAOi properties, there is some debate about that. If it does have those properties it is very mild and you don't have to worry about any food restrictions with it.
Good luck.
Posted by karaS on October 3, 2004, at 14:57:05
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor, posted by Optimist on October 3, 2004, at 12:53:27
> > 5-HTP has caught my attention over the last couple days and I'm not sure what to think of it. Should I stop the SJW and go with 5-HTP or use them both? There seems to be two opposing opinions on mixing the two. Some say it is fine while others say it will cause Seritonin Syndrome.
>
> I would suggest taking SJW and 5-HTP together. The 5-HTP works best if taken with juice on an empty stomach. The sugar/insulin helps transport the 5-HTP to the brain. Just start with low doses first then work your way up. If you start small there shouldn't be a problem with serotonin syndrome. I never had any problems with it.
>
> Concerning SJW as having MAOi properties, there is some debate about that. If it does have those properties it is very mild and you don't have to worry about any food restrictions with it.
>
> Good luck.
SJW and 5-HTP can be great for people who need serotonergics but they are generally not the best way to go for people who have anergic depressions (like me). We need medications or supplements that are more dopaminergic and/or noradrenergic.
Posted by linkadge on October 3, 2004, at 18:10:52
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor » Optimist, posted by karaS on October 3, 2004, at 14:57:05
I think this is *not* a wise Idea. I had serotonin syndrome when combining the two.
Linkadge
Posted by laurie_lu on October 3, 2004, at 22:38:17
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor, posted by linkadge on October 3, 2004, at 18:10:52
Linkadge, how many milligrams of each were you taking at the same time?
Posted by linkadge on October 4, 2004, at 10:34:34
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor » linkadge, posted by laurie_lu on October 3, 2004, at 22:38:17
I was taking 900mg of SJW, and added 25-50mg of 5-htp.
Linkadge
Posted by LOOPS on October 7, 2004, at 16:07:17
In reply to Re: 4 Weeks into SJW 2 Weeks Post Ceasing Effexor, posted by linkadge on October 4, 2004, at 10:34:34
I disagree -
well, in my experience anyway, I've combined sjw and 5htp with no adverse effects. In the past I've taken 900mg sjw and 250mg 5htp (spread throughout the day) and I've been fine. For some people (myself included), sjw DOES have an effect on norepinephrine/dopamine. I've gone through 2 cycles of taking sjw in the past two years, each lasting for around 3 months. What happens is the first couple of weeks I am 'wired' - have more motivation etc., then after this I kind of feel ok, as in not depressed, but not that motivated. After about 3 months the effects seem to have worn off totally and I have to look for something else or take a break.
I am currently restarting sjw after a two month break. The last two days have been feeling good again. I don't know why it works like this, but it seems my brain just 'gets used' to the herb and eventually goes back to its old ways again! I know people who swear by sjw and take it every day for years, so it doesn't wear off for everyone.
I also note that the first few weeks of taking it I am a bit 'spacey' and get drunk very easily on a beer or two.
It does tend to aggravate my acne btw - I think others have reported this as well.
Overall I would say if you have an anxious type of anxiety then sjw might help, but combining it with 5htp (once you've gotten used to the sjw effects) is better. However if you have a lethargic depression, and sjw makes this worse, you may need another 'stimulant'.
I have sorted out motivation problems using some nootropics, more the 'natural' ones like vinpocetine, which I now prefer over ginkgo (will say more about this in another thread).
SJW is very valuable IMO and I would always go back to it rather than go on an ssri etc.
Loops
Posted by laurie_lu on October 9, 2004, at 8:58:11
In reply to sjw 5htp, posted by LOOPS on October 7, 2004, at 16:07:17
I think the dizzy/vertigo spells are finally over. This is the first week I haven't been plagued by them. I still get nauseated but I can handle that. Either the Effexor is out of my body now or the SJW has finally kicked in and making me feel better.
This is the end of the thread.
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