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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on January 28, 2009, at 15:37:57
I had been responding pretty well to antidepressants for 2 years at the time when a friend of mine suggested that I try P-5-P. Within 2 hours, my mood dropped off precipitously and I became suicidal. I suffered a full relapse. It took about 6 hours for me to begin to feel better.
This was a dramatic reaction that I was able to communicate to a friend of mine over the phone as I was going through it. It almost didn't matter that logic hinted that this state of relapse would likely disappear. I felt doomed and suicidal nonetheless. Thank God it was fleeting.
No more P-5-P for me.
Any ideas as to why I reacted so negatively to this substance? I am bipolar.
At the time, I was taking:
Nardil
nortriptyline
Lamictal
Abilify
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on January 28, 2009, at 15:40:15
In reply to P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours., posted by SLS on January 28, 2009, at 15:37:57
Presumably you would have had the same result if you had taken tryptophan?
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 28, 2009, at 15:54:47
In reply to Re: P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours. » SLS, posted by Sigismund on January 28, 2009, at 15:40:15
Sorry can't answer your question , but hate the stuff as well, every time I have taken it I have very vivid nightmares ( this never happens normally)
Posted by SLS on January 28, 2009, at 15:57:06
In reply to Re: P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours. » SLS, posted by Sigismund on January 28, 2009, at 15:40:15
> Presumably you would have had the same result if you had taken tryptophan?
I don't know. I tried L-tryptophan in the early 1980s. I don't remember reacting to it that way.
I do react strongly in a negative manner to calcium supplements. I don't recall what form or dosage. I just know that after I went through the reaction the first time, I was unwilling to rechallenge the system to see if it would happen again.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on January 28, 2009, at 17:52:14
In reply to P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours., posted by SLS on January 28, 2009, at 15:37:57
All I know is that I think it is so ridiculous whenever I read somewhere on the net, or a doctor says, to take a lot of B vitamins, especially B6, P5P, B12, or Folic Acid. Pure insanity. They have not a clue of your genetics or your B vitamin pathways. Because it worked for someone else and it sounds good and it sounds healthy and it is cheap and it is natural, it must be a great thing. Geez.
I've had horrid reactions to several vitamins and minerals, same as you. I discovered the best thing for me to do is make sure each of my meals has a lot of green stuff in it, fruits and veggies, some protein, and some carbs. Basically, well, as they all say, a healthy balanced diet. What a concept huh?
I had some genetic testing done recently. Some of it pertained to the B vitamins and methylation pathways. Basically it indicated I should supplement extra B12, AVOID B6 and P5P, and eat a high carb low protein diet. Just the opposite of the fads out there right now. No one knows how meaningful these genetic tests are, so I'm not going wild with it, but I mean, it just shows that someone should not just take some supplement because someone else says it is a good thing to do. Even a simple vitamin can be massively powerful, either negatively or positively. I don't think people respect that fact.
Off topic a little bit, the genetic test also showed I have double mutations on all the MAOI genes. I'm not sure what that means. One of the recommendations was to take very low doses of reuptake inhibitors very frequently throughout the day. So I assume then it means the MAOI enzymes are overactive. I don't know why they just didn't get right to the obvious solution and say take Marplan, Nardil, or Parnate.
Anyway, yeah, gotta test vitamins and minerals in small doses one at a time to see what does what. Just like any drug. They are drugs.
Posted by Sigismund on January 28, 2009, at 21:24:10
In reply to P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours., posted by SLS on January 28, 2009, at 15:37:57
Of course at the time you were taking Nardil and nortriptylline.
I assume it didn't feel at all like serotonin syndrome.
Posted by Franz on January 29, 2009, at 0:34:31
In reply to Re: P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours. » SLS, posted by bleauberry on January 28, 2009, at 17:52:14
How interesting bleauberry. Can you please give more details about the tests?. How are they called/where to get them?.
Thanks
Posted by sregan on January 29, 2009, at 13:23:59
In reply to P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours., posted by SLS on January 28, 2009, at 15:37:57
> At the time, I was taking:
>
> Nardil
> nortriptyline
> Lamictal
> AbilifyScott, you most likely have a block in your production of Serotonin that the P5P completely removed. This block may be why you are on the 4 medications above. The Lamictal is an SSRI which has probably downregulated your serotonin receptors. The P5P, if you have a block, had your brain flooded with Serotonin which your SSRI had a field day with. You're not supposed to supplement Tryptophan with SSRI's for the same reason.
You may have found something that can help get you off at least the SSRI. Something you can talk to your doctor about. Have you had a Homocysteine test recently? If that is high that could indicate such a P5P block also. Your body might not be producing enough of the stuff.
Cheers.
Posted by SLS on January 30, 2009, at 17:43:51
In reply to Re: P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours. » SLS, posted by bleauberry on January 28, 2009, at 17:52:14
You're right.
It really is amazing, with as much as we have in common as a species, we can be affected so disparately by the same substances.
One of my major complaints about some health food stores and vitamin shops is how cavalierly the help "prescribes" substances for their patrons.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2009, at 12:40:43
In reply to Re: P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours. » bleauberry, posted by SLS on January 30, 2009, at 17:43:51
But the calcium? I must take it for osteoporosis with balanced magnesium. Also took tryptophan once years ago and the urge to breath wasn't there. Never took it again. It was very strange as wanted to use it for sleep. needless to say did sleep as had to make sure I kept breathing must have been when in my early thirties. Phillipa
Posted by Darwin on February 2, 2009, at 18:54:19
In reply to P-5-P made me suicidal within 2 hours., posted by SLS on January 28, 2009, at 15:37:57
I had a depressive reaction to coenzyme B-complex caps and I suspect it was the P-5-P which caused it.
I also get a depressive reaction to choline bitartrate in doses greater than about 25mg/day.
Choline bitartrate is commonly found in multi-vitamins and I'm careful to choose multi-vitamins which contain little or no choline.Vitamin B-6 is involved in converting choline to acetylcholine so it may be that increased acetylcholine may be the cause of my depressive reactions to P-5-P and choline bitartrate.
This is the end of the thread.
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