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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sac on November 6, 2009, at 5:19:50
OK, so I've been on psychiatric meds for roughly 18 years. Only in the last 5 years did I begin experiencing some other physical problems such as: weakness, fatigue, difficulty concentrating, apathy, anxiety, unexplained bouts of nausea, not having the strength to socialize, etc. etc. After searching many years to find a doctor (alternative) other than my psychiatrist, I have now learned that my labs show I am suffering from low cortisol, adrenal burnout. Can anyone explain the connection between low cortisol and these profound mental/physical changes? Thanks.
Posted by nolvas on November 6, 2009, at 8:18:37
In reply to Link between cortisol(adrenal fatigue)+depression, posted by sac on November 6, 2009, at 5:19:50
Have you been tested for Addison's disease? This is a rare disorder but still worth testing for.
I recommend Adrenal Fatigue by J.Wilson. This book will help you get better.
Posted by bleauberry on November 7, 2009, at 6:33:24
In reply to Link between cortisol(adrenal fatigue)+depression, posted by sac on November 6, 2009, at 5:19:50
It is my belief that adrenal fatigue is caused by many things...too much stress, too many deadlines, too much sugar, too much caffeine, and diseases of all kinds...they all put undue stress on the adrenal glands.
But there is also another cause I am fairly sure of, but lacking in scientific backing. That is, antidepressants, especially the serotonin ones. As serotonin is increased, the body/genes attempt to rebalance norepinephrine upward to match the high level of serotonin. When that successfully happens, the antidepressant effect is good. When it doesn't, the antidepressant effect is apathy, tiredness...too much serotonin.
When it does work, over time...months, years...the adrenals are working overtime at an unnatural accelerated rate to keep norepinephrine up high to balance the aritifically high serotonin. They were not designed to do that. Eventually they exhaust themselves and give up the fight. Like a car going uphill running out of gas.
It is not easy to fix. Starting points usually involve adrenal herbs. In my experience, the best of the best is Eleuthro (Siberian Ginseng, NOT the other ginsengs...they are too overtaxing. Siberian is balancing)
Rhodiola rosea works well for some, worsens others...like me.
Adrenal cortex extracts and sometimes the addition of tyrosine are popular. The most popular potent brand is Isocort.
When adrenals are weak, thyroid is also affected. They are partners. Impacting one impacts the other. Any adrenal adjustments will cause thyroid adjustments as well, which take months to balance, so it is important to go slow in small starting doses so as not to rock the boat too much in any single move.
For some people, like me, none of the natural stuff was helpful, or actually felt bad. For us, the real benefit came with the real stuff...physiological replacement doses of oral hydrocortisone. Many people find 20mg the target dose. Me, my best dose was a mere 2.5mg. These are low safe doses that do not have the complications of higher dose HC used to treat inflammation and other conditions. HC gets a bad rap, and many doctors won't prescribe it for adrenal fatigue, but that's because they are basing their opinions on: 1)lack of knowledge, 2)results of high doses treating other diseases. You just want to replace what is missing, no more, no less. That is usually under 20mg. My doctor did prescribe it, and I found it very helpful, but only after he had me try everything else first. Low dose HC is in fact, as my doctor showed me, right in the medical textbook as the proper way to treat hypoadrenalism. It had several pages dedicated to just that.
Siberian ginseng requires 6 months. Take it like a vitamin, set your sights on the calendar.
Diet is important. Low sugar, low caffeine, well balanced with lots of veggies and fruits.
Exercise is important...don't do it! Kidding, you want a little exercise, but do not strain the already exhausted adrenals. You don't want to waste away either, so a little bit of exercise is good. Heavy exercise, heavy activity, is bad.
With adrenal fatigue, your body is a defenseless host to many opportunistic problems. Such as Candida primarily, and various bacteria. You will want to embark on a strong anti-Candida herbal protocol, or Diflucan, and take potent pro-biotics every day. Don't assume it is not an issue. It is. Don't assume it is just adrenal fatigue. It isn't.
A good antimicrobial to boost energy, clear headedness, and mood, is Olive Leaf Extract 500mg 3 times per day. Use it as a part of a comprehensive cocktail, not by itself. Benefits are noticed within days.
Healing success stories abound. Two things they all have in common...it took a comprehensive plan (herbs, diet, anti-microbial, exercise, HC, regular sleep pattern) and it took time. Six months is a reasonable time frame to see obvious results, with up to 2 years needed to see full recovery. It took a lot of years for the damage to occur, and it won't be undone in a short time...so don't be discouraged. Face the enemy, know the enemy, and go into battle determined to win. The enemy right now thinks he is winning, and he may win a few more small battles along the journey, but stick to a comprehensive plan and he will be defeated in the war, much to his surprise.
Along the way, whatever you do for depression...herbs, supplements, meds...be sure it is a balanced mix of neurotransmitters, not just a serotonin focus.
Posted by sac on November 10, 2009, at 5:19:20
In reply to Re: Link between cortisol(adrenal fatigue)+depression, posted by bleauberry on November 7, 2009, at 6:33:24
Thank you for your post. The idea of the antidepressants contributing to adrenal fatigue is something I have wondered about myself. I have been on Prozac for almost 17 years, with only two brief periods off of it when I was pregnant. I have tried most of the adrenal supportive supplements with limited success. I even tried Isocort but felt that I constantly needed to increase my dose to get any effects. Currently I take 20 mcg sustained release T3 for hypothyroid, plus Prozac 20 mgs, Lithium 450mgs. (mood swings possibly related to adrenal fatigue as well). Within the last 6 months my psychiatrist added Wellbutrin 150mgs, because I was feeling very fatigued around noon with difficulty concentrating most of the day ( I am an accountant which requires mental alertness ) My alternative practitioner recently started me on 1 mg. natural hydrocortisone and I can increase to 3 mgs if needed. The only trouble I have found is it tends to worsen my mood. It's great for my skin though, acne cleared up right away. Since I am prone to depression, it is a struggle to find something that will not worsen my mood. I appreciate your input, and how I wish that I could get off SSRI's, I know they are not good long term.> It is my belief that adrenal fatigue is caused by many things...too much stress, too many deadlines, too much sugar, too much caffeine, and diseases of all kinds...they all put undue stress on the adrenal glands.
>
> But there is also another cause I am fairly sure of, but lacking in scientific backing. That is, antidepressants, especially the serotonin ones. As serotonin is increased, the body/genes attempt to rebalance norepinephrine upward to match the high level of serotonin. When that successfully happens, the antidepressant effect is good. When it doesn't, the antidepressant effect is apathy, tiredness...too much serotonin.
>
> When it does work, over time...months, years...the adrenals are working overtime at an unnatural accelerated rate to keep norepinephrine up high to balance the aritifically high serotonin. They were not designed to do that. Eventually they exhaust themselves and give up the fight. Like a car going uphill running out of gas.
>
> It is not easy to fix. Starting points usually involve adrenal herbs. In my experience, the best of the best is Eleuthro (Siberian Ginseng, NOT the other ginsengs...they are too overtaxing. Siberian is balancing)
>
> Rhodiola rosea works well for some, worsens others...like me.
>
> Adrenal cortex extracts and sometimes the addition of tyrosine are popular. The most popular potent brand is Isocort.
>
> When adrenals are weak, thyroid is also affected. They are partners. Impacting one impacts the other. Any adrenal adjustments will cause thyroid adjustments as well, which take months to balance, so it is important to go slow in small starting doses so as not to rock the boat too much in any single move.
>
> For some people, like me, none of the natural stuff was helpful, or actually felt bad. For us, the real benefit came with the real stuff...physiological replacement doses of oral hydrocortisone. Many people find 20mg the target dose. Me, my best dose was a mere 2.5mg. These are low safe doses that do not have the complications of higher dose HC used to treat inflammation and other conditions. HC gets a bad rap, and many doctors won't prescribe it for adrenal fatigue, but that's because they are basing their opinions on: 1)lack of knowledge, 2)results of high doses treating other diseases. You just want to replace what is missing, no more, no less. That is usually under 20mg. My doctor did prescribe it, and I found it very helpful, but only after he had me try everything else first. Low dose HC is in fact, as my doctor showed me, right in the medical textbook as the proper way to treat hypoadrenalism. It had several pages dedicated to just that.
>
> Siberian ginseng requires 6 months. Take it like a vitamin, set your sights on the calendar.
>
> Diet is important. Low sugar, low caffeine, well balanced with lots of veggies and fruits.
>
> Exercise is important...don't do it! Kidding, you want a little exercise, but do not strain the already exhausted adrenals. You don't want to waste away either, so a little bit of exercise is good. Heavy exercise, heavy activity, is bad.
>
> With adrenal fatigue, your body is a defenseless host to many opportunistic problems. Such as Candida primarily, and various bacteria. You will want to embark on a strong anti-Candida herbal protocol, or Diflucan, and take potent pro-biotics every day. Don't assume it is not an issue. It is. Don't assume it is just adrenal fatigue. It isn't.
>
> A good antimicrobial to boost energy, clear headedness, and mood, is Olive Leaf Extract 500mg 3 times per day. Use it as a part of a comprehensive cocktail, not by itself. Benefits are noticed within days.
>
> Healing success stories abound. Two things they all have in common...it took a comprehensive plan (herbs, diet, anti-microbial, exercise, HC, regular sleep pattern) and it took time. Six months is a reasonable time frame to see obvious results, with up to 2 years needed to see full recovery. It took a lot of years for the damage to occur, and it won't be undone in a short time...so don't be discouraged. Face the enemy, know the enemy, and go into battle determined to win. The enemy right now thinks he is winning, and he may win a few more small battles along the journey, but stick to a comprehensive plan and he will be defeated in the war, much to his surprise.
>
> Along the way, whatever you do for depression...herbs, supplements, meds...be sure it is a balanced mix of neurotransmitters, not just a serotonin focus.
Posted by tea on January 27, 2010, at 3:03:02
In reply to Re: Link between cortisol(adrenal fatigue)+depression, posted by sac on November 10, 2009, at 5:19:20
>>In my experience, the best of the best is Eleuthro (Siberian Ginseng,
my fav. also, except I can no longer get it. I liked the ground root (the whole siberian ginseng) and used to love making tea with it. Kept me going for many years. Actually only started on the antiD's after I could no longer get this.
> >the real benefit came with the real stuff...physiological replacement doses of oral hydrocortisone. Many people find 20mg the target dose. Me, my best dose was a mere 2.5mg.My best dose was 3mg and time released as well, although I never did try 2.5mg:)
I now like prednisolone cream on occasion, would really like some whole ground siberian ginseng root though
tea
Posted by sophia04 on December 28, 2010, at 20:32:45
In reply to Re: Link between cortisol(adrenal fatigue)+depression, posted by bleauberry on November 7, 2009, at 6:33:24
I know this is an old thread, but any info you may have would be greatly appreciated. I've been on hydrocortisone for over a month. Presently taking 2.5mg in am + 5mg around 1pm. I have fibromyalgia and hit a really debilitating wall of fatigue every evening around 5-6pm. Thus far, I haven't noticed any improvement. The only impact that I've noticed has been a worsening of my depression (which has been relatively under control w/ parnate) + some excess water (?) weight in my belly. My question is... have I given it long enough? Is my dose too high? My doc says I can go up to 25mg/day, but that more is not necessarily more effective. My first two weeks I started at 2.5mg/day, but again, no noticeable impact on the fatigue.
thanks...
Posted by jeaner on December 30, 2010, at 20:26:35
In reply to Re: Link between cortisol(adrenal fatigue)+depress » bleauberry, posted by sophia04 on December 28, 2010, at 20:32:45
Fibromyalgia can be related to low thyroid which causes fatigue.You may need some thyroid hormone.Have you had your thyroid checked?Have you checked your iodine levels? MSM and magnesium help me alot with pain from fibromyaldia.
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