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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2005, at 18:41:11
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1462399.htm
damn it is it SO CLOSE.
Last I heard (from last night) centrebet was paying 10c more for a Helen Clarke (labour) over Brash (national).
nerve wracking...
omgsocial welfare on the one hand...
tax cuts on the other...ps if brash gets in and he lifts our nuclear free policy then do ya think you guys will give us back free trade and let us rejoin ANZUS?????
(LOL!!!)
Posted by ClearSkies on September 17, 2005, at 7:20:36
In reply to election today, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2005, at 18:41:11
Looks like Labour has a narrow margin - how soon before the official results are announced?
p.s. I had to look for the election news on the BBC website; it hadn't made the US networks that I've seen.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2005, at 11:18:47
In reply to Re: election today » alexandra_k, posted by ClearSkies on September 17, 2005, at 7:20:36
> Looks like Labour has a narrow margin - how soon before the official results are announced?
Here are the results if anyone else is interested.
http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/
There are still special votes (from people overseas) to be counted.
I think... 14 days till the final result comes in...And now for the million dollar question...
But what does that mean???61 seats (out of 120) to get a majority government. Since labour didn't get 61 seats all by themselves they now need to enter into negotiations to enter into coalitions with the minor parties. The greens will definately (100%) go with labour so they can count on them...
They might just be able to swing it.
The problem is...
Well... The same as last time really.
Bloody Winston Peters holding the country to ransom!!!
He lost his Tauranga seat (unbelievable! though the polls did start predicting that) - but we can't get rid of him because people insist on voting for his party (you need 4% of the party vote to win a seat).Peters won't make any promices with respect to forming a coalition... It is still possible for national to form a coalition with (say) NZ first (Peters party), the maori party etc etc and thus Brash (national) could end up with the majority government after all.
Basically...
Either labor or national could still do it.(Is this reminding anyone of watching a 5 day test match of cricket only to find its a draw??? Our elections are a little like that lol! Well... With respect to frustration anyways... The results come in but the outcome takes a couple weeks)
So...
Who knows what Peters will do...If neither national nor labor manages to get a coalition for the 61 seats then Helen Clarke (as the leader of labor who got the most votes) will be PM and we will have a minority government which hasn't happened before.
I think that means... That there will be more voting going on in parliament as issues have to be voted on rather than getting through because people (should really unless they want to be ostracised) vote with the party but with no clear majority... issues are decided on more of an individual basis.
maybe a good thing...
maybe...
hard to say.i hope labor manages to scrape that support together...
but who knows
bloody winston...
<sigh>
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2005, at 22:54:49
In reply to Re: election today » ClearSkies, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2005, at 11:18:47
> 61 seats (out of 120) to get a majority government.
Okay. There are two overhang seats (so there will actually be 122 seats this time) so it is 62 to get the majority.
Looks like... Nobody is going to be getting that which means we will be having a minority government.
>The greens will definately (100%) go with labour so they can count on them...
There has to be a vote of confidence and supply. You need to get more votes for than against in order to get control of the budget. United Futures (Christian party mostly) have refused to vote confidence for a Green coalition government so it looks like if the Greens and Labour form a coalition then they won't get the confidence vote (NZ first said they won't vote on that either way).
It is getting all confusing...
And special votes...
All the peoples overseas wanting their tax cut (national voters...)
All the students outside their electorate (greens...)
Usually the greens go up and labour goes down
So it is possible that national and labor could end up with the same number of seats or national could even come out one up.So basically...
Nobody knows anything
And we won't know for a couple weeks how many seats everyone has
And then there are coalitions to be worked outI was thinking a minority government would actually be better....
I mean... Typically you have to tow the party line (they get pissed if you vote against them).
If your party is part of a coalition... Then typically you have to tow the coalition line (they get pissed if you vote against them).
So that weakens the voice of the minority parties...But apparantly the confidence vote then becomes problematic...
And it is likely the government won't last the full term...
So there might be an early election...Hrm
Posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2005, at 19:44:27
In reply to Re: corrections..., posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2005, at 22:54:49
crappy politics.
this is why i don't vote
because i don't understand the system...
apparantly germany had an election round the same time as us
and we are using a similar (if not an identical) system.
and they have found themselves in a similar position to us...i don't know what to say...
lots of people voted green because they thought that a (party) vote for green was the same as a (party) vote for labour - because they thought a coalition between green and labour was assured. in fact, they wanted to vote green to give something approximating an environmental conscience to labour...
but given that it looks like labour can't get the majority...
and given the crucial role that united futures gets to play (with respect to whether labour can get the confidence and supply vote) united futures pretty much get to dictate that the greens and labour do not form a coalition.
the greens are working on them...
trouble is the greens are perceived as being opposed to business (gee i wonder why).crappy crap crap
there may have to be another election if this doesn't get sorted...
and the government is likely to be unstable which means another election could be called at any time...
i don't really understand...
i don't see the point in a confidence and supply vote.
the people have voted for the present government so i don't see why there has to be one of those.
and i reckon people should stand for what they personally believe if they got voted in as a person to represent their electorate.
and i reckon people should tow the party line if they got voted in in virtue of being on the party list.and bills should be voted on.
why does it all have to be so f*cking complicated???????
grumble grumble whine whine.
Posted by ClearSkies on September 20, 2005, at 20:24:37
In reply to Re: corrections..., posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2005, at 19:44:27
...had turned out as messed up as NZ's!! Coalition gov'ts sound like enormous juggling acts.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2005, at 21:11:25
In reply to I was wondering if the German election » alexandra_k, posted by ClearSkies on September 20, 2005, at 20:24:37
yeah. its alright if one party gets the clear majority.
but typically... they don't so they need to form coalitions.
i think what it does...
is it gives the little guys a voice too.if a party gets 5% of the vote then they get peoples with speaking rights in parliament
so it is supposed to be more representative of what the people want...
and
it is supposed to help give the main parties a bit more of a conscience...
but like most things...
ideology is one thing
practice is anotheri'm quite fond of plato's notion of an oligarchy
(why the hell should the ignorant masses have a right to vote???)
but the problems arise in the implementation...;-)
Posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2005, at 19:25:49
In reply to I was wondering if the German election » alexandra_k, posted by ClearSkies on September 20, 2005, at 20:24:37
and apparantly... this happens every election. i guess i'm just too young / uninformed to know that lol! there won't be another election... because nobody wants there to be one.
they are just enjoying their two weeks in the limelight. especially the little parties. then they will fall back into the norm of everybody ignoring them and not giving a sh*t ;-)
:-)
This is the end of the thread.
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