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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 13:25:28
I am being sued for several million dollars by someone who claimed I ran a red light at an intersection. It was yellow when I entered it and I was below the speed limit when he hit me from the side. He is an insurance broker who is self-employed and claims in the next 5 years he will have to have surgery on his back and will never be able to work again. After the accident I was taken to the hospital and he wasn't. He waited up to the day before the end of the year after the accident and filed suit. His attorney wants my deposition and my psychiatrist's. I'm terrified they are going to make my disorder responsible for this and cause financial ruin to my family. I don't know why anyone would do this to someone else. I'm sorry to vent, I can't talk about it to my husband because it would freak him out too. So I'm sitting here crying and barely able to care for my family. I just want to go in a closet and take a bunch of pills and someone let me know when it's over. Not too mature... thanks for listening- judy
Posted by mair on March 4, 2003, at 15:29:31
In reply to I'm losing it..., posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 13:25:28
Judy
I know this seems awful, but really the complaint you've probably been served I'm sure way overstates the claim. Unless your auto insurance coverage is way low, then the insurance company has an obligation to defend you and to pay the claim. Even if it is quite deficient, sometimes a homeowner's policy, if you have one, will cover the overage. And even assuming that you don't have homeowners insurance to help cover what an auto policy won't, if you're like most people, you and your husband hold most of your assets in joint names. Probably the only assets this guy could reach would be those in your name alone. But really going to this end is pretty remote. It's probably very very unlikely that this would lead to the kind of financial ruin you fear, or even financial distress.
Also there may be mechanisms to keep this guy from dredging up your mental health history, especially if it's not at all relevant to what happened. Talk to your attorney about this. Also the fact that your psychiatrist may be asked to give a deposition does not at all mean he'll ever end up in court or that you'll ever end up in court, for that matter. The huge majority of claims are settled before a trial occurs.
Also remember that discovery is a 2 way street. This guy has to come up with somne convincing evidence that what he says is true - about his own medical condition and his own ability to work - usually insurance companies are pretty good at sniffing (and snuffing) out the more ridiculous claims. It's alot easier to make wild claims on paper than it is to follow through with them in oral testimony.
Was an accident report submitted and did it support his claim of what happened? Did the police cite you for running a red light? Is there some evidence that he was speeding or had a good opportunity to avoid the accident? Lots of states have laws which serve to diminish or eliminate a possible recovery where the claimant bears some responsibility for the claim as well.
There's no doubt that being sued can cause alot of anxiety and mental distress. I know this from unfortunate first hand experience. That being said, you'll do yourself a great favor if you can get into the mindset that it will be awhile before this all works itself out, and that in all likelihood, even the worst that can happen isn't, in the grand scheme, all that bad. You have to try not to be anxious about the outcome since the outcome will be so long in coming.
So bury yourself in the closet for awhile maybe taking some deep breaths to calm yourself down, but skip the pills because things really aren't as bad as they seem right now and one day, this too will just be an unpleasant memory but not the disaster you fear.
Mair
Posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 15:43:08
In reply to Re: I'm losing it... » judy1, posted by mair on March 4, 2003, at 15:29:31
you sond like my lawyer :-), that's a good thing. I think everyone with anxiety disorder )or maybe everyone) catastrophicizes (is that a word?) things, and I know I'm guilty of that. Since you have first-hand knowledge, thank you for your input. My lawyer just said they check assets, but since I'm not Howard Hughe's granddaughter :-), not to worry and that they will probably reach an agreement in mediation. The insurance attorney is going to stop them from accessing my medical records since I'm not suing and they're not entitled to them. My shrink said he would never hurt me and these are all things I needed to hear. When you are in the middle of something awful, it's almost like depression- you just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you so much for writing and take care, judy
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2003, at 16:37:07
In reply to I'm losing it..., posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 13:25:28
I'm sorry, Judy. It's an awful thing to have to go through, but it sounds like you're doing just the right thing. You're asking questions and finding out information that will help you deal with all of it, even though I'm sure that's the last thing that you feel like doing at the moment. Very mature and very well centered of you.
Nothing attacks fear like information.
The pills are, of course, not a great idea. But the closet is a very calming place for me for when my anxiety escalates out of control.
You've got a lot of people on your side, so you're not in this alone.
Posted by David Smith on March 4, 2003, at 16:51:05
In reply to I'm losing it..., posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 13:25:28
Hi Judy.
Glad you survived the accident. I bet if
that jerk's lawyer saw your post,
they would run for the hills!I get upset when someone looks at me the
wrong way. You remind me what is really
important- your family. You should not
have to go it alone. Is there anyone else
you can discuss this with?
Posted by IsoM on March 4, 2003, at 18:11:10
In reply to I'm losing it..., posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 13:25:28
Oh Judy, my sympathies are with you. Just when life seems to be going okay, something like that jerk comes along to throw it out of order again.
Mair's sensible & has good advice. I'm glad you have a lawyer who knows his stuff too.
My suggestion? Don't go in that closet. Go scoop up your little Gabrielle when she's feeling quiet or sleepy, find a comfy rocking chair, & rock & sing all your childhood songs to her. Just forget anything else for a while & feel her soft warmth against yours & soak in the calm & comfort she brings. Take care, sweetie.
Posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 21:30:16
In reply to Re: I'm losing it... » mair, posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 15:43:08
I am glad you have a lawyer. Do you feel confident in your lawyer? The insurance company's lawyer is important too, but I think it is important to have one's own in case at some point your and their interests diverge, so you will have your interests looked after, especially if they are claiming damages beyond your insurance coverage.
The suit sounds like overkill. They are just gearing up for the negotiation. I suspect they don't even want to go to a judge but want to settle before it goes that route.
I would hope that one would have to prove some majorly extremely drastic injuries to actually get that kind of money.
As for the medical records, I think what your lawyer says makes sense. The plaintiff's psych records might be material since he is putting his medical condition on the table. I agree with Mair--but I am not a legal expert, so take my opinion as just that--unless the police report indicates that you were grossly out of line as a driver, ie, where whether you take meds or not or have a psych condition or not would be at issue, it surely must remain immaterial. If you were not cited for major moving violations and nobody questioned your fitness to be behind the wheel at the time, it would, at least in my mind, be hard to get a judge to say, that after one year, all of a sudden, this is the supposed reason for the accident, and that their line of questioning with regard to your fitness and any effect on your driving from medical/psychiatric problems should be admitted. They might still try to intimidate you with the fear of it, and even in a trial, could possibly try to slip mention of it in "accidentally" but I cannot imagine that any decent judge would allow such game playing to go on.
From what I know, insurance lawyers are often not trial lawyers, ie, they do most of their work in negotiation, and that there are even formulas for how much certain kinds of injuries or damages are worth. This plaintiff, being an insurance man, must know that it is all about the negotiation table and part of the strategy in negotiating settlements is to try to intimidate you into settling in their favor.
Don't be intimidated. If you have a good lawyer, let him do his thing. Ask questions, keep yourself updated and informed, make him explain the process and his reasoning for recommending certain strategies, etc. But let him shoulder the game playing part of it--don't let the intimidation tactics even come close to you. Let him "digest" all that crap for you. That is why I am convince that lawyers must have iron stomachs to be successful!!
I was once involved in a trial--I was actually the plaintiff, not the defendant, and it was a very different kind of case. But the defendant hired the meanest bulldog in the business in our area and he got extremely nasty--I mean really rotten nasty, with major intimidation tactics. I survived it. And my lawyers were great. I never thought the other side would ever let it go to trial, but they were arrogant so they did, where the nastiness took on a whole new look, but it was their loss, becasue I won the case and I won really big, way bigger than anything I would have gotten had they done what would have been best for them--just be done with me by settling early for the modest amount we proposed in the first place (or even more modest with a little bargaining, which they refused to do because they thought they could intimidate me out of the whole thing).
In your case the plaintiff is asking for what sounds like an unreasonable amount given the situation. And I'll bet they think they'll be able to intimidate you into setting large so you won't have to go to trial, but I also think it wouldn't be good for them to drag it out into a trial, especially once your lawyer does his little magic and fights off the motions to admit stuff that is not relevant. Going to a jury is a big risk. I did not mind the risk (though I certainly wasn't eager for it to go to trial), because the defendant in my case was unwilling to hold good faith negotiations. I didn't care at that point if I lost or came out with only a meager award. My situation was such that there was an ethical/moral issue involved that I felt had to be played out since they refused to take ownership of something very wrong that they did.
But in your case, I think (you should ask you lawyer this) it is *them* that risk more going to trial. It smells of wanting to settle for as much cash as they can get, and like I said, unless they have good, solid, ADMISSABLE evidence that could get a jury to agree with their implausible story that you have negligent responsibility for huge damages, I think they are going to want to settle and not go to trial. I emphasized the word admissable because one of the things I learned in the process is how much work the attorneys do that is never seen by a jury. Good lawyers are good at presenting reasoning and case law precendents to the judge as to why something should or should not be admitted as relevant. There will no doubt be a lot of motions and counter motions flying back and forth whether or not it goes to trial, because it affects the power of what each party brings to the table in terms of trying to intimidate the other side. If anything, since he is bringing medical claims, it is his records that will be introduced, not yours.
If it does get to the point of taking depositions, I think it is a good idea to let your lawyer know that you want a LOT of prep time so that you can feel as comfortable as possible about going into the deposition, having role-played and practiced how to respond or not respond to difficult questions. Also, I realised after the fact that I answered way too quickly, and it would have been better to take a slow, deep breath, think a little, before answering, espcially the questions that are meant to push buttons. It is a simple thing that I did for a few questions, but should have done more of--settle back, breathe, and think before answering. I don't want you to be nervous at this point about a deposition because it may not even get to that point, who knows. But look, even if it does--I certainly could have done a lot better in my deposition, but I ended up winning the case anyway!!
BTW, the defendant in my case tried to get my medical and psychiatric info in discovery, but did not succeed--the judge agreed that it was irrelevant. That did mean that I had to claim less "profitable" damages, and my lawyers did push me a bit to consider allowing it, so we could claim emotional and medical damages, but I didn't and stuck with the lower profile damages because there was no way in hell I was going to introduce my medical/psychiatric care into the case. Glad I didn't and in the end didn't need them.
I'll be thinking of you. I coped much better than I ever expected to, and you will, too, I am sure. Let the lawyer screen the crap for you--that was an important part of it for me.
Posted by stjames on March 4, 2003, at 23:23:59
In reply to I'm losing it..., posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 13:25:28
Been there, done it. I was sued for several mills
over an auto accident that I was totally at fault
for & why insurance did not cover me. I never had to pay anything, so take heart in that.You MUST answer the papers you were served with, in a specific amount of time, or the court will award default judgement. YOU LOOSE, YOU PAY.
If your insurance was named as a party in this suit they may represent you. Don't assume, though.
At the very least, a one hour consult with a
lawyer is worth it.
Posted by stjames on March 4, 2003, at 23:33:55
In reply to Re: I'm losing it... » mair, posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 15:43:08
My lawyer just said they check assets, but since I'm not Howard Hughe's granddaughter :-), not to worry and that they will probably reach an agreement in mediation.
Glad you have representation. Yep, that is what
I was told when I was sued, they were going for money and I did not have any.The insurance attorney is going to stop them from accessing my medical records since I'm not suing and they're not entitled to them. My shrink said he would never hurt me and these are all things I needed to hear.
I am glad you have seperate representation from the insurance attorney, so you have someone totally on your side.
Judy, it seems to me that while you may have totally freaked about this, you still took care of yourself. You consulted councel, spoke to your doc, ect. I am impressed.
Posted by medlib on March 4, 2003, at 23:54:24
In reply to I'm losing it..., posted by judy1 on March 4, 2003, at 13:25:28
Hi Judy--
I'm so sorry that you have to go through this! Your initial reaction to such outrageous demands is understandable, and perfectly normal. Anyone would be frightened by such tactics; in fact, a big part of the intent behind such high dollar suits is intimidation. If someone sues you for 5 mil, then you're more likely to settle eagerly for 10-20% of that, feel that you "dodged a bullet" and be willing to overlook the fact that you may not be legally liable at all. My best (non-legal) advice is to get therapeutically ANGRY, then allow that to gradually mellow down to a steely determination not to be a victim this time!
I come from a family of several generations of civil attorneys; similar stories were normal dinner conversation at our house. It's beyond unfair that you should have to, but it sounds like you're doing a good job of marshalling your resources. However, when you speak of "your attorney" I hope that you are referring to your *personal* attorney, not one assigned to your case by your insurance co. S/he may call her/himself your attorney, but, in reality, that person represents the insurance co. in this matter. Your best interests and those of the company don't always coincide; and, when they don't, yours will *not* receive first priority. In particular, ins. co.s are often eager to settle(cheaper for them than going to court), even when "proof" of your liability would not begin to stand up in court. Then, of course, once the claim is disposed of, your ins. is cancelled and you have a judgement on your record which may make getting future ins. more difficult/expensive.
In addition to all the good points Mair made, I'd urge you to examine what happened as if it had happened to someone else. I hope you'll bear with me if I do a little of that here. Let's see: You were in the intersection on a yellow light proceeding at a legal rate of speed when you were struck by a car from the cross-street which had been stopped at the signal? Are there any witnesses who will testify that the light on the cross-street had actually turned green *before* complainant entered the intersection? Even if complainant had "jack-rabbited" into the intersection on green (not reasonably safe driving behavior given predominate driving habits), he was accelerating from stop; so his speed couldn't have reached more than 5mph before impact, at which point his air bag presumably deployed. You were transported to the hospital, but he was not; therefore, he has no point-of-contact proof that any actual injuries resulted from that impact. Even if his "injuries" were documented by physician visit that same day, those injuries could be preexisting or have been caused subsequent to your accident. From a standing start no more than 1-2 car lengths away, he struck your car in such a fashion as to cause an injury for which no immediate evaluation or treatment was sought, but which nevertheless resulted in permanent disability severe enough to prevent all future employment? Riiigghhtt. I believe I detect a foul odor, perhaps, eau de greed with just a touch of extract of contingency and a bit of attar of con game thrown in?
I don't know why I'm so outraged on your behalf, Judy. Maybe it's the notion of someone who's in a lifelong struggle to deal with so much undeserved cr*p getting hit with more. Enough already!! Don't let this one dirty your shoes!
I'm probably the least emotional person around this side of catatonia. Hope my indulgence hasn't made things more distressing for you.
Well wishes---medlib
Posted by judy1 on March 5, 2003, at 11:12:01
In reply to How about hitting something inanimate, instead? » judy1, posted by medlib on March 4, 2003, at 23:54:24
I *really* appreciated your reaction and envied it too, I know anger is so much healthier then my retreat into fetal position reaction. Yes, I have a personal attorney who told me I was the only call of 10 he answered yesterday (i must have sounded particularly pathetic), and I agree with you that the insurance attorney representing me doesn't have my best interests at heart. Your letter really helped me- thank you, judy
Posted by judy1 on March 5, 2003, at 11:21:30
In reply to Re: I'm losing it... » judy1, posted by noa on March 4, 2003, at 21:30:16
Your replies were wonderfully supportive and helpful to me, it means a great deal that I can post a letter and have all these great responses in a day. I didn't go to my husband for advice because he would put a negative spin on it ( which is not unreasonable because CA is a joint property state and he would be affected by any financial disaster that befalls me), so I talked to my personal (not insurance) lawyer, my shrink and to all of you. I have to say I gained the most comfort from your responses, and I am truly grateful for that. take care, judy
Posted by judy1 on March 5, 2003, at 11:32:17
In reply to For the rest of the posters...., posted by judy1 on March 5, 2003, at 11:21:30
My personal attorney told me he lost 40 pounds during a trial once and he loathed going to court. The insurance attorney representing me pretty much said the same thing, that trials are draining and he would do everything to avoid that. He did say the plaintiff's attorney was doing an asset search on me- hah, mania and credit cards are a lethal mix- so despite having a home, I think if things were written out we would qualify for bankruptcy. so I asked if I should see a bankruptcy attorney and the answer was no- it's way to early and they are hopeful this will settle in mediation. so that's the latest and obviously I'm on a learning curve here. thanks again, judy
Posted by IsoM on March 5, 2003, at 13:40:21
In reply to For the rest of the posters...., posted by judy1 on March 5, 2003, at 11:21:30
I'm glad you're feeling a bit better, Judy, & have plans to deal with that "b*st*rd" trying to sue you. Despite diff views & strong opinions here, I think everyone does have each other's best interests at heart. I'm happy that you feel our support.
I must tell you a story sent me but a friend who works in a law firm. I can't remember where it happened except that it was in the States where lawsuits are much commoner. I'm telling the story as it was told me. I don't know if it's 100% accurate.
A lawyer, thinking he was clever, bought a box of very expensive Havana cigars, & had them insured against loss by theft, fire & something else. Then he proceeded to smoke them, one by one, till they were finally gone. He then put in a claim with the insurance company stating his cigars were lost in a "fire".
The insurance company was outraged & took him to court over it, but the lawyer knew his stuff. The judge ruled the company had to pay him as it didn't specify what sort of fire. He left the court a happy man.
But the insurance company was not to be outdone & they had their own lawyers. They promptly charged him with 20 (or how many cigars were in the box) separate counts of willful arson & fraud in claiming the insurance. He was found guilty & had so many months probation, but even better - he ended up paying more to the insurance company for fraud than he had won from them! Justice sometimes does prevail.
Hope this puts a smile on your face for today.
Posted by BCI on March 5, 2003, at 17:28:28
In reply to Re: For the rest of the posters (and a story) » judy1, posted by IsoM on March 5, 2003, at 13:40:21
Judy1,
Bets are that the judge throws it out of court. Hang on.
Posted by judy1 on March 6, 2003, at 10:15:46
In reply to Re: For the rest of the posters (and a story) » judy1, posted by IsoM on March 5, 2003, at 13:40:21
It did and thank you! I guess I understand there are greedy people in this world, but my hopes lie in a fair system that will sort this out. thanks again, judy
Posted by judy1 on March 6, 2003, at 10:17:20
In reply to Re: For the rest of the posters (and a story), posted by BCI on March 5, 2003, at 17:28:28
"Hang on."
I'll try and thanks for the good wishes- judy
Posted by beardedlady on March 9, 2003, at 13:30:30
In reply to Re: For the rest of the posters (and a story) » BCI, posted by judy1 on March 6, 2003, at 10:17:20
Judy--I don't read this board, so I didn't know about your terrible trouble.
What stood out for me is that he didn't file a report until the last moment. I think that'll be a red flag.
Mair's and Iso's words are always those of wisdom. You have nothing to fear. And his dogma will soon be hit by his bad karma.
beardy
Posted by judy1 on March 9, 2003, at 15:42:18
In reply to sorry I'm late » judy1, posted by beardedlady on March 9, 2003, at 13:30:30
thank you for the words of comfort.
"And his dogma will soon be hit by his bad karma."
I agree with you on this. I know I try to be the best person i can and i guess that's why i don't understand when things like this happen. i just hope my good actions in life will mean a good end to this.
again, thank you for the good wishes-judy
Posted by ShelliR on March 12, 2003, at 12:21:11
In reply to Re: sorry I'm late » beardedlady, posted by judy1 on March 9, 2003, at 15:42:18
Judy,
Also just read about what happened to you. Just wanted to tell you a bit late (but better than never) that I'm sorry you have to go through this. For us it's enough to deal with our own head stuff without the reality of someone suing. I'm sure Mair is right, that it seems much worse now than what the outcome will most likely be.
But we're all pulling with you.
Shelli
Posted by judy1 on March 12, 2003, at 16:15:51
In reply to Re: sorry I'm late » judy1, posted by ShelliR on March 12, 2003, at 12:21:11
thank you. my deposition is scheduled in 3 weeks and i'm already freaking about that. if this goes to court and a judgement is handed down against me, my family will file for bankruptcy. i felt i had to know the worst possible outcome, so i went to my lawyer to ask- if i hadn't done that i would have imagined even worse case scenarios. i hope if anyone takes anything from my situation, it would be please cover your assets because there are some very greedy people out there. take care, judy
p.s. i'm not sure i posted this, but my lawyer had a judge block access to my psych records, i'm greatly relieved about that.
Posted by noa on March 13, 2003, at 20:14:53
In reply to Re: sorry I'm late » ShelliR, posted by judy1 on March 12, 2003, at 16:15:51
> p.s. i'm not sure i posted this, but my lawyer had a judge block access to my psych records, i'm greatly relieved about that.
GREAT!! First battle won--it is a very good sign.
This is the end of the thread.
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