![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Rod on December 1, 2003, at 19:27:01
What you see right now is called sight… What you see later is much more complicated… Sight is experienced in only one spot in the brain, called the visual cortex… This is all eyes do, and do it good they do…
The mind’s eye is a whole lot more… After you attach a feeling to what you saw with yours eyes, your mind works with your brain to find a good place to store that picture so that it won’t get quickly lost… Feelings create a value to the picture you see, forming it into a memory, adding priority and meaning to the picture, which in turn helps you find it later…
If the picture you are storing causes you a conflict, things start happening to the picture quality, mostly to attempt to resolve the conflict… Sometimes with some people, lack of proper guidance and/or acceptance of guidance, starts messing with the simple picture… The brain also has clues as to where the picture went, but growing up in un-disciplined discipline can scatter good simple pictures all over the place…
None of this is good or bad unless you make it good or bad… Its about choices, yours… As a children, inappropriate and undisciplined discipline can leave you feeling that choices are never yours to begin with… Most common, is a nagging feeling that whatever choice you make isn’t right, “enough”… You “vibrate with indecision” until you have no time left and make a sometimes regrettable decision, or panic and don’t decide at all…
If your history is chaos, going down its comfortable and well-worn path leads only to tomorrow being just like yesterday, one day at a time… Curiosity and discovery, instead of avoiding this new idea or that new chore, allows you to see more new stuff… Since stuff you’re not even aware of not knowing, and can’t even guess at, is almost everything that exists, new clues will creep into to your brain from this unknown territory, only when and if you let them; more choices!!! This process is a gentle upgrading of your information and knowledge “toolbox”…
I can’t do it for you… Your “meds” can’t do it for you, no matter how much you need them to exist (it’s a bad idea to stop existing)… No one at “Psychological-Babble” can do it for you… Your shrink can supply you with clues and “meds”, but the "choices" part is still yours…
Thank heaven for your ability to see something new 10 times per second… Really!!! That’s how long it takes to know something new; 100 milliseconds, 1/10th of a second… See how enormous the waste of your time that chronic indecision and procrastination can become???
…and the choices are yours…
Posted by helenag on December 1, 2003, at 21:51:25
In reply to Mind's Eye, posted by Dr. Rod on December 1, 2003, at 19:27:01
You certainly know how to do psychobabble.
Posted by Joslynn on December 1, 2003, at 21:57:36
In reply to Mind's Eye, posted by Dr. Rod on December 1, 2003, at 19:27:01
Dr. Rod, I notice you here a lot explaining to us what we have to do or not do in your opinion, so I would like to ask, in what field do you have your doctorate? Thank you.
Posted by stjames on December 1, 2003, at 22:48:29
In reply to um, what are you a doctor of? , posted by Joslynn on December 1, 2003, at 21:57:36
Posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 23:23:05
In reply to Mind's Eye, posted by Dr. Rod on December 1, 2003, at 19:27:01
Thats an interesting post you wrote. I'm not sure I understand all of it. There are parts I agree with, and parts I disagree with.
One part that struck me was when you mentioned today being just like yesterday because we are making the same choices. I know this sounds like a silly question, and that the answer might seem obvious, but HOW do we stop making those choices. It seems I have gotten so used to the same ones, that I no longer see other choices available. Also, I too would like to know what area your doctorate is in.
Elle
Posted by lookdownfish on December 2, 2003, at 5:40:11
In reply to Mind's Eye, posted by Dr. Rod on December 1, 2003, at 19:27:01
Posters here are often told
"please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down"
To my mind's eye some of your posts are doing exactly that, due to your air of superiority.
For example, accusing others of "chronic indecision" or "grumbling and obligatory thinking"
Can you think about whether these types of posts are supportive to others?
Hope this does not offend, but simply upgrades your toolbox.
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 2, 2003, at 6:43:08
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye » Dr. Rod, posted by lookdownfish on December 2, 2003, at 5:40:11
maybe dr bob will reconcider taking a closer look at rob..
i felt me and my "lable" were under attack..
now i know we all are..
boy , i sure have troubles with those "i feel sentences..."
oh my
jyl
Posted by Poet on December 2, 2003, at 10:29:40
In reply to Mind's Eye, posted by Dr. Rod on December 1, 2003, at 19:27:01
Dr. Rod,
I am very aware of choices available to me, I need help evaluating them. That's why I post here, am in therapy and yes, on meds. I am choosing to get help.
Putting posters down for choosing to get help is a poor choice of guidance from someone who calls himself doctor.
Like the others, I would like to know your academic and professional credentials.
Poet
Posted by mair on December 2, 2003, at 12:11:07
In reply to Mind's Eye, posted by Dr. Rod on December 1, 2003, at 19:27:01
For years I've been opining to my therapist that since I seem to slip in and out of depressive states fairly quickly and since I'm pretty high functioning most of the time even when depressed, I must be "choosing" to be ill. I frequently feel that depression is something I should be able to "will" away. Of course when I'm not depressed, everything looks less complicated and more possible. My therapist has never bought into this to any degree although it comes up from time to time and we have taken a pretty close look at my theory.
I've also been struck by how I can sometimes think incredibly awful things about myself although I then may have no physical symptoms of depression. My therapist has been trying to convince me that this pattern of negative thinking is, in and of itself, a symptom of depression. It's pretty key that I buy into her theory because otherwise, all of those negatives, if not depression based, become more reality based. The negative messages are the clearest ones I give myself and definitely the most convincing.
I'm not quite sure what I'm left with if in fact I truly can choose not to be depressed and yet don't (choose).
Mair
Posted by mair on December 2, 2003, at 12:13:28
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye, posted by Poet on December 2, 2003, at 10:29:40
Does your theory apply as well to people who are treatment resistant? My sense is that the vast majority of the people here have not been as successful as many people have with drug therapies.
Mair
Posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 17:55:19
In reply to um, what are you a doctor of? , posted by Joslynn on December 1, 2003, at 21:57:36
My PhDEd, is a doctorate in the science of knowing, the science of education...
Are you absolutely sure that all I ever say is only my opinion??? Can't I also repeat facts without telling a story about the facts???
Note: (Webster's)
opinion = information held confident without direct knowledgeOpinions are stories about the facts, not the facts... People live their entire lives not seeing and knowing any facts... Other people tell them how and when to think...
It is a fact that I saw a woman overcome her acrophobia with only eight minutes of "guided imagery"... It is also a fact that over the next 10 minutes she accepted training for her self induced follow-up... It is now four years later and she reports no acrophobia events...
It is also a fact that a number of drug abusers and wife beaters have been able to stay out of jail by proving to the court that their behavior is sufficiently amended to societal standards, after studying and employing these techniques...
I'm here discussing what I know, not what I guess...
Posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 18:28:20
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye » Dr. Rod, posted by Elle2021 on December 1, 2003, at 23:23:05
PhDEd, the science of knowing...
Elle, please accept my apology if I appear to you as "nit-picking"; "...TOMORROW will be the same as YESTERDAY..."; no discussion of TODAY...
Elle, Obligatory thinking traps you into the "playbook" of others... Obligatory thinking prevents you from being independent... "FEAR of ABANDONMENT" (emotional or physical) locks you into those choices you continue to make, sabotaging your future...
I have seen the effects of disconnecting from the will of others in order to find your own will... Just suspend all opinion for 24 hours if you can... You can then start seeing which opinions are being dumped on you by others and which opinions are really, really, really your own... Of course a new level of responsibility comes with this new freedom...
"Fear freezes the feet!" implies that the usefullness of fear isn't absolute, like when an 18 wheeler is bearing down on you and your kids... Respecting that same 18 wheeler is the adult solution, leaving you FREE to choose what to do next...
No doubt that my rustling in the bushes around this WEB site has an effect... Also, you are all very generous in your responses... I get more than you can imagine from being here...
Posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 18:32:08
In reply to Re: mind's eye, posted by helenag on December 1, 2003, at 21:51:25
It's gotta be frustrating continuing to avoid new stuff... ...and tomorrow still looks like yesterday did.......
Posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 18:51:27
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye » Dr. Rod, posted by lookdownfish on December 2, 2003, at 5:40:11
I apologize for my sophomoric zeal and seeming "puffed-up" with myself... I promise you that I was humbled by my limitations for 30 years... However, starting 15 years ago, step by step, I found my way out... I manage my feelings well enough to assure you that I am not superior in feeling or in fact to anyone... I don't want to be, and since I have dumped all expectations and obligations, I will contiue not wanting to be; superior... Since my life is no longer defined by events, my life as a process seems better at every tomorrow...
Sounds like you see me as expecting something... Am I right??? Do I seem to be expecting something???
Posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 19:17:05
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye, posted by Poet on December 2, 2003, at 10:29:40
I have re-read, and re-read, and re-read my post... Please help me... You FEEL I put down somebody (or somebody put down somebody)... I am mystified...
What did I say??? How was I supposed to say it??? Did I abuse someone??? Did I abuse the truth??? Was what I said any good to anybody??? Am I a bad person???
Harnessing my impulses and working diligently on appropriate "conflict resolution", has freed me forever... I can now make "bad decisions" and not suffocate in the aftermath... In my own life, I fix anything I break!!! I respect the dangerousness of breakage and try never to break nothing... Try as I might, sometimes I break stuff...
I am curious what the next thing is that I make a mistake doing...
Posted by Civ on December 2, 2003, at 19:35:23
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye --- mine must need washing... » Poet, posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 19:17:05
Well, I already know about fallling into the trap of which you speak. I'm basically surviving instead of living, afraid to make the changes that I need to, paralyzed by anxiety and confusion for a whole year now. I would like you to expound on how you overcame your difficulties. Others may find it helpful too.
Posted by Joslynn on December 2, 2003, at 20:12:40
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye --- mine must need washing... » Poet, posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 19:17:05
I can't speak for Poet, but since you asked and seem puzzled about it, I can share what I personally found offensive:
I'm picking up a lot of "you statements" in your posts and I get the impression that you want to tell other people that they are not feeling or thinking the way YOU think they should. Yet it is not until now that I have read you discussing your own experiences. (I admit, I have not read all your posts, so I could be wrong.)
In the posts by you that I have read, there is a large amount of space taken up by explaining to others your theories about what they are doing wrong. Those theories may be valid, they may not be, but people don't come here to be spoken to in a teacher/student context.
My impression from the FAQ etc. on here is that it is a board for MUTUAL support and education. When one person tells other people what they should do or should not do, without relating his or her own experiences, it no longer feels mutual. Rather, it comes across as aspiring to an authority on the board that no one on here can earn. No matter how well intentioned, no one here is in the position to be a teacher telling the rest of us how to think our thoughts and live our lives. Even Dr. Bob, a medical doctor, does not try to give therapy or lectures here.
Here is an experiment. If you have MS Word, cut and paste your post into a new file, and use the find/replace feature to find the word "you." It might surprise you to learn how many times you say "you" in one post. Then count how many times you say things like "my experience was" "I think/feel" etc. I think you will find a big difference.
On the FAQ, there is a link about the value of "I" statements that you might find helpful. http://www.crnhq.org/windskill4.html
Posted by Joslynn on December 2, 2003, at 20:25:27
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye --- mine must need washing..., posted by Joslynn on December 2, 2003, at 20:12:40
Posted by Joslynn on December 2, 2003, at 20:43:16
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye --- mine must need washing... » Poet, posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 19:17:05
Rod, since you wanted to know what you said that was offensive, here are some random things from a variety of your posts that I found offensive. If you read these and still do not understand, then I apologize for wasting other people's time and will just drop this and scroll past your posts without comment.
Here are the excerpts, in quotes, in no particular order:
"It's gotta be frustrating continuing to avoid new stuff."
"Your grumbling and obligatory thinking cloud your vision from seeing this truth about yourself..."
"Sad to say that your story sounds much like this... You witnessed part of it, delusions filled in some, and the rest you have tried to fill in with induction of imaginary facts and opinions... This is my experienced guess..."
"Sometimes the quest for knowing "why" serves as a distraction for the undisciplined impulsive mind..."
"See how enormous the waste of your time that chronic indecision and procrastination can become??? …and the choices are yours…"
Rod, looking at the quote above, what if you had said: Several years ago when I was fighting depression, I wasted a lot of my time with chronic indecision and procrastination. Then I realized that for me, the choice was mine and I did blah blah blah (insert helpful technique and how you used it to get better)
That's all I can say on the matter, I just can't try to explain it anymore and this is probably the wrong board anyway.
Posted by crushedout on December 2, 2003, at 21:39:57
In reply to since you asked for input » Dr. Rod, posted by Joslynn on December 2, 2003, at 20:43:16
...explaining what has been offensive about Dr. Rod's posts. Thank you so much.crushedout
Posted by Dr. Rod on December 3, 2003, at 2:37:48
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye --- mine must need washing..., posted by Joslynn on December 2, 2003, at 20:12:40
I appreciate your patient manner in your response... For me to be all those things you say, I would have to be singularly judgmental, passing judgement on all of "YOU"... Joslynn, I promise you I am only hoping to evoke; to be evocative, no more, no less... Instead, I hear avoidance of my information by labeling it “judgmental”... So, by implication, I must be doing it wrong, otherwise you would see wisdom instead of totalitarianism in what I say...
Please tell me how to evoke responses any other way; any-way differently than I have been... I honor my implied contract with Dr. Bob and this board not to "therapize" anyone in anyway...
What kind of goof would I be if I warned about the "tyranny of the shoulds" (and don'ts) and turned around and told you what you should and don't do??? Please re-read my posts and earmark all my "you shoulds" and "you don'ts" if you can...
How I got here is a story alright... You can tell I "did my time" and "paid my dues" by the "emotional limp" you see when I walk/talk...
I found that the surety of "knowing why" was an endless story, played out so I wouldn't have to look at myself... I was "other centered" yet I swore I was "peddling as fast as I could" toward my goal of wholeness; being "enough"...In 1990, while writing notes for my first book, I discovered something amazing... I had been feverishly chasing a dream of wellness by trying to change myself and my attitudes... I knew what I wanted, and I wasn't it... What came leaping out of the pages of my struggles at writing was that I was now back where I had started 17 years before in 1973, however, I saw who I was and I liked who I was... I was "enough"...
I had gone all my life with the notion that I was what I did; the nuns had trained me well... What was different now is that I was back where I started, but I was no longer prone to do those things that sabotaged myself and my future... To the point, I was no longer whatever I did; I was just me...
I liked me!!! Most important, I discovered that I probably suffered from "self-loathing" before, which was now extinguished... You know what they say about suffering, "pain is real --- the misery and suffering are optional"... I took the option not to suffer anymore... When I talk to myself in the mirror, I now hear only one voice, mine!!!
This stuff I talk about is so new and cutting- edge that there are few examples to even tell stories about... Third party references come to mind; he, she, it, and them...
I promise to work on being careful(ler) next time if you promise to try to "wear" what I say instead of avoiding it... I call this a mini-contract...
Posted by Elle2021 on December 3, 2003, at 2:54:11
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye » Elle2021, posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 18:28:20
You have me pegged when you speak of "fear of abandonment." I do have my own opinions, and trust me, I have no trouble expressing them. Just take a look at the faith board and the administration board. I don't think other people's opinions really influence me. I ask for advice, and weigh the ins and outs of a situation carefully before making my own decision. But, I have never *let* someone make a decision for me. I don't like that idea. If I am going to suffer the consequences of my decision, then I better have made it myself. Any ideas on how to get passed the fear of abandonment?
Elle
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 3, 2003, at 4:13:55
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye » Dr. Rod, posted by lookdownfish on December 2, 2003, at 5:40:11
> Posters here are often told
> "please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down"Yes...
> your air of superiority.
Please take care to be civil even when you don't think others are. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by lookdownfish on December 3, 2003, at 6:59:35
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye and being all puffed up about it » lookdownfish, posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 18:51:27
It sounds like good news for you that you have such confidence. I accept your apology, and I'm sorry for my accusatory tone. Its hard to express some things without sounding rude.
>>Sounds like you see me as expecting something... Am I right??? Do I seem to be expecting something???
No - I don't know what you mean really. It's just that most people who post here have problems that they need help with, and they in turn want to help others with their problems. Yet you are different, you seem to have all the answers...? Anyway looks like you have a bit of a break from posting. see you later.
Posted by Poet on December 3, 2003, at 10:23:08
In reply to Re: Mind's Eye --- mine must need washing... » Poet, posted by Dr. Rod on December 2, 2003, at 19:17:05
Dr. Rod,
Joslyn spoke for me without knowing it. I am bothered by the word *you.*
<<You “vibrate with indecision” until you have no time left and make a sometimes regrettable decision, or panic and don’t decide at all…
I felt put down about what you were saying about choices because I blame myself for every bad decision and the resulting consequences. I think if you had said "I used to...my experience taught me..." I would have looked at your theory differently.
<<Harnessing my impulses and working diligently on appropriate "conflict resolution", has freed me forever... I can now make "bad decisions" and not suffocate in the aftermath.
That was worded perfectly, you gave me personal examples without making me feel accused of doing something wrong.
What you say is interesting, it's how you say it that needs some laundering.
Poet
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