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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 20, 2004, at 0:31:35
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
I'm so sad for you that a session that's supposed to help, can instead ruin a couple of days for you.
Being known as a "typical male", I want to fix it for you instead of validate your feelings. I am mentioning this because I must disclose that for nearly two minutes after I read your post, I was off mentally telling you what you could do different next time.
Sadly I'm not finished remodeling my brain yet.
Posted by judy1 on January 20, 2004, at 0:48:35
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
it sounds like you did some very difficult work with your therp- and that always leaves you drained. (It's probably why I avoid the hard stuff). when do you see him again? if it's a week, maybe just getting some support from him on the phone would help. try to be gentle with yourself- hope you feel better-judy
Posted by naiad on January 20, 2004, at 6:37:25
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy! » DaisyM, posted by judy1 on January 20, 2004, at 0:48:35
Daisy,
Just want you to know that on this board you are not emotionally distant. You are warm, caring, wise and wonderful. I, too, feel flawed but as others have said, change is possible at any age and time.
Please take care of yourself. I hope today is better than yesterday and that you can get some relief from those overwhelming negative feelings.
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 7:54:52
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
(((((Daisy)))))
You wrote: I decided that I must be really frustrating because I need to control everything.
Gee, my whole session yesterday was about control, too. It is so hard to see what we really are doing and know how it is affecting others. But let's get realistic here. We may like to control things - but there is a reason. It's not like we are trying to oppress people - at least for me, it is that I think that I can help them make their world and my world better if we do it my way. I really have good motives, and I'm sure you do, too.
So, when you are beating yourself up for being so controlling, please remember that you mean well, and that you want good things for people. You are a wonderful person.
Don't worry just yet about changing the behavior. Just accept that you are a good person who behaves sometimes in a way that you don't like so much. Later on, you can work to help the good person show her "niceness" in a different way.
But you truly are a good person.
You and I can learn to be less controlling together. OK?
Posted by All Done on January 20, 2004, at 9:05:33
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
Growing up I didn't learn how to let people close and now it is too late.
>>I agree with everyone else, Daisy. It's never too late.
But I'm really lonely and sometimes wish someone would take care of me instead of me always taking care of everyone else. Not that I would actually allow that -- it would be scary.
>>I know how you feel, I'm the same way. But maybe as you start to let others take care of you (in small ways, of course - baby steps), the loneliness will start to fade away. Start by letting us take care of you a little bit.
(((Daisy)))
I hope today is a better day for you.
Posted by tinydancer on January 20, 2004, at 9:34:54
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
Sorry if I am dumb and didn't follow but why did you leave in tears? Were you talking about something or does it have to do with your T not rescuing you?
Posted by Poet on January 20, 2004, at 11:09:27
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
Daisy,
I'm so sorry that you left your session in such pain. I understand how you feel about work, it gives my brain something to keep it busy so I stop obsessing over a hard session.
Eat lots and lots of chocolate.
Poet
Posted by Karen_kay on January 20, 2004, at 14:35:16
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
(((Daisy)))
It's not too late to let people close to you. I understand that it's a hard step to take. I still don't know how to do that either. But I hope that in the future I can. I know that for me, I don't let my emotional guard down because I've been hurt in the past. And I won't allow that to happen again. But, I would guess it is a decision you just have to make. To begin one day to allow yourself to slowly let others do things for you. And to enjoy it.
You're not emotionally flawed. You've been hurt. That's not a flaw. That's not something you can help. But that is something that one day you will overcome.
Take care of yourself.
Posted by Raindancer on January 20, 2004, at 17:56:16
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
Dear Daisy, I'm so sorry you are having such a bad time and I do hope you're feeling better soon. You have helped me so much over the past days, I feel very sad that you are in such pain. I have felt very close to you recently and care for you a great deal. Your own care and thought for others warms and comforts them.You are not at all emotionally flawed - just hurt by what life has done to you. This can and will heal, but it may take a long time, and as you know, therapy can be tough and painful. Hold on tight. You may not see it now but you are gaining ground with every step. With thoughts and prayers.R.
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 23:25:52
In reply to Re: Leaving in Tears » DaisyM, posted by Raindancer on January 20, 2004, at 17:56:16
Posted by DaisyM on January 20, 2004, at 23:59:31
In reply to Daisy? How is it going? (nm), posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 23:25:52
Not better. Haven't much to say. Still can't take in good things so can't respond yet to any of above.
My son had his "last" therapy session today. He was thrilled to be graduated out. I dropped him at home, went back to my office and sobbed my heart out. How do I take care of this emotionally attuned child when I can't get my own emotions under control? I needed his therapist more than he did.
More evidence about how incompetent I feel. I know I'm just having a pity-party. Shouldn't be so negative. Sorry.
Thanks for checking.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 6:48:23
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going? » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on January 20, 2004, at 23:59:31
Oh, Daisy. :( Don't worry about being negative here.
When is your next therapy appointment? I think you could use some extra support.
(((Daisy)))
Posted by fallsfall on January 21, 2004, at 10:55:16
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going? » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 6:48:23
You said: In the end, I was in tears and he asked what was happening and I said I felt like I was sinking because I felt like my thoughts about being basically emotionally flawed had been confirmed.
I can identify with this feeling - the flawed business. But I really believe for me (and I would think it would be true for you, too) that I came into this world as a whole person - with the capability of growing into a person who had all the right emotional stuff. My family couldn't teach me the right things when I was little. I'm sure that I wasn't the easiest person to teach, but they really didn't do a very good job. I DO believe, however, that I still have the inate ability to learn how to be emotionally human. I think that it is HARDER to learn this at age 46, but I think that it is possible. That is why I'm in therapy. Because I want to learn to be human. I believe that it is possible for me to learn to be human - that belief is my HOPE.
You have been so caring and thoughtful on this board. You, too, have the inate ability to be human. And you want to be human. Your "emotional flaws" (and mine) are not hopeless. They are also not as devistating as we feel they are - if they were we would have no relationships and would have done no good in our lives (clearly this is not the case for either of us) Please see that you aren't to "blame" for those flaws, but also that they don't have to be forever flaws. Your SOUL is impeccable. It's time to find a way for that soul to shine through.
(((((Daisy)))))
Email me at babble fallsfall at hotmail.com if you would like.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 21, 2004, at 13:11:46
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going?, posted by fallsfall on January 21, 2004, at 10:55:16
Daisy
Things do get better. I promise. I know it's hard right now, but things will get better again. I know it hurts to feel that you are emotionally flawed in some way. But you aren't. I wish there was some way that I could make you see just how wonderful you are.
If you are still feeling down, why don't you call your therapist. I know that's a big step for you, but I think it would be an important one for you to make. And talk about how much the last session hurt. It could really lead to some bigger things...Just think about it.
Posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 18:59:52
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going?, posted by Karen_kay on January 21, 2004, at 13:11:46
I wrote a post this afternoon but it seems to have disappeared into cyber space so I am going to try again. Please accept my apology if that one suddenly pops up with duplicate thoughts. (Though I'm sure that one was better...)
I understand what you are all trying to say but...BUT.
All this pain is about figuring out that I'm not strong -- in fact, I'm a coward at my core. On the outside I'm organized, smart, capable of multi-tasking and decision making. On the inside, I hate confrontations and go to great lengths to avoid them with the people that matter to me. I let people treat me badly, for years and years, to avoid doing anything about it. I've believed for a long time that I was great for "putting up with them." The truth is they have been putting up with me.
I hold everyone at arm's length, keeping that emotional distance. How frustrating this must be - to never really feel like you can reach the other person. I talk about being lonely yet being vulnerable to someone, including my husband, is too hard, too scary. I'm so much better at solving other people's problems, at fighting their battles.
I've decided what I need to work on is acceptance
of these flaws...and of the loneliness. Don't tell me I'm being too hard on myself. The evidence of this pattern is pretty overwhelming. I don't see hope of suddenly finding courage.It is painful to acknowledge that the strength that so many people admire is just a sham. I'm not who I thought I was, who I want to be. Yes, I could feel this way because I live day-to-day with so much sickness and anger (his, not mine), or because I had a traumatic childhood or even that genetically it is my real character. It doesn't change what "is". So I long for intimacy but I won't risk emotionally to get it.
It was easier not realizing all this. Not knowing what I wanted/needed. I'm trying to accept the loneliness and stuff the rest back in the box.
I'll get my self together soon and be OK. Really. Thank you all for your support. I appreciate it more than you know.
-D
Posted by fallsfall on January 21, 2004, at 19:57:21
In reply to I'll be OK, posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 18:59:52
Posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2004, at 20:01:21
In reply to I'll be OK, posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 18:59:52
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 21:47:01
In reply to from me too, ((((Daisy)))) (nm), posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2004, at 20:01:21
I'm worried about you. (Even if you'd rather I didn't.)
Posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 23:00:14
In reply to Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment?, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 21:47:01
I went in today. We didn't get very far. I told him I felt like a lifelong fraud and just felt hopeless and I didn't know what to do about it.
He said that he thought I wasn't giving myself enough credit -- that I was strong. That I was functioning really well in some realms (work) instead of letting all of this completely overwhelm me. He said I just had to trust him. He had enough hope for both of us. And he insisted on sharing it.
At least he made me smile.
And he insisted I come back tomorrow. I think I'm scaring him.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 23:07:33
In reply to Re: Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment?, posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 23:00:14
I'm glad you're going back tomorrow. Thank him for me, will you, for insisting. And you should congratulate yourself on your strength for agreeing. I know how hard it was for you to let yourself need help.
Posted by fallsfall on January 22, 2004, at 9:50:55
In reply to Re: Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment?, posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 23:00:14
I'm glad you are going back tomorrow, too.
He sounds really caring - he'll help you through.
We would be happy to help take care of you, you know? I don't often let people take care of me, but you did recently, and it really helped and it made me feel better. We're here.
(((((((Daisy)))))))
Posted by DaisyM on January 22, 2004, at 11:12:07
In reply to Re: Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment? » DaisyM, posted by fallsfall on January 22, 2004, at 9:50:55
It is hard for me to reach out, I'm always sure that I'm imposing. It is easier here because we rotate the support. I'm struggling with letting my Therapist "take care of me" because I know in the end it is up to me. But right now I have to let him lead. He told me that sometimes when we begin to recognize truths about ourselves it is incredibly painful. Not that he is confirming that I've hit upon a truth. So I should look at this as "normal" (Ha!)...I told him that for him to have to hold all the hope feels like a huge thing to ask of someone, paid or not. He countered with it is alot to ask of someone to accept that you can hold their hope. So I have to just trust him. I'm really trying. But I don't think he has the cure for all this pain. And I wanted so badly for him to have it.
You said in a previous post: Because I want to learn to be human. I believe that it is possible for me to learn to be human - that belief is my HOPE.
You are so much more than "Human". Being Human just the basic hunter/gatherer groupings. You are HUMANE...you reach out with your spirit to touch mine and the others here. I think you are looking to go beyond here with that ability...connecting to people in a way that helps you and them. You certainly do it for me here.
And as far as control goes...right now I'm glad I've had so much practice at control. My therapist commented yesterday on how split my life is: dual characters playing completely different parts. One is keeping it together: mother, boss, etc. The other is suffering quietly: the lost little girl and the woman looking for...I don't really know what...happiness? It takes so much energy to keep up the one role yet without it I know I'd be even more a mess. My Therapist agreed, and at least didn't tell me to "reduce my stress" (I hate that!)But, he wants me to see him more. And that feels really dangerous. I don't need a transference mess right now, especially after reading so much here about them. Though he would probably turn cartwheels if I developed that kind of attachment/trust. :)
I said it before, I really, really appreciate the support. I can feel myself beginning to pull back up from the black places. Thanks for the rope.
-D
Posted by DaisyM on January 22, 2004, at 11:16:24
In reply to Re: Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment? » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 23:07:33
Dinah,
Thank you for all the encouragement. I've been reading and I know your not having a picnic right now either -- I'm sorry I haven't been there for you.I'm trying to pull out of this. Writing is usually what helps me. I just couldn't find those words the past few days. They seem to have come back this morning. And the sun is out.
So maybe I don't need the appointment today???
I hope you are doing OK.
-D
Posted by Speaker on January 22, 2004, at 15:36:52
In reply to Re: Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment? » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on January 22, 2004, at 11:16:24
Daisy,
I have been gone for awhile but I just caught up on the posts. I'm glad you are going today! Its ok to go even when the sun is shining...sometimes that adds light into those dark days (how profound -yuck :). After living with a terminal husband for many years I know there are two sides of life. However, that doesn't make us frauds, it just makes us people that wear more hats. It would be inappropriate to be the "needy" one at work, we have to be strong and competent. I learned its ok to allow our emotional mess to come out at different times...like at the therapists office. I wish I would have gone to a T. during that time, instead I am going now!
Posted by DaisyM on January 22, 2004, at 18:39:33
In reply to We can go even when we feel good :)., posted by Speaker on January 22, 2004, at 15:36:52
I forget sometimes that you've been where I am...I'm glad I can call on your perspective and experience. I wish you had had support at that time too. :(
I called to tell my Therapist that I was feeling somewhat better today but he really (REALLY) wanted me to come in anyway. (As in, "I'm not taking No for an answer!" -- pushy, isn't he?!) So I went. We had a good conversation about all of this...why I'm feeling so hopeless and how hard it is to be dealing with a sucky present and painful past at the same time. And how awful I felt to be dragging myself in to him in this weepy, whiney state time after time.
He does what he always does. He gently reframed, he told me he would share not only his hope but his strength. He gave me permission to shut it off, to stop for awhile.
The conversation did take an unexpected turn (see new post). But in the end he reminded me that I could call him anytime, over the weekend or during an evening, even if he had seen me that day. Even with extra sessions. He made me feel better.
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