![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 36 to 60 of 64. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 23, 2004, at 13:50:29
In reply to Deep breaths everyone?, posted by Dinah on December 23, 2004, at 7:24:18
> could I suggest a bit of a step back and some deep breaths?
>
> I see that everyone has been putting a lot of effort into their responses and trying really hard to help Crushed with her pain.
>
> everyone's reactions are perfectly understandable. But if everyone takes a step back and sees how each other's reactions are also perfectly understandable, perhaps we can keep some very valuable connections here on the board strong and maintain important sources of support for everyone involved.
>
> DinahThose are all really good ideas. Could I also encourage the use of I-statements? For example, instead of:
> I liked Dinah's reply, as I made pretty clear in my response to it. She validated my feelings without telling me what to do.
>
> I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just looking for help and some kinds of help are not helpful.How about:
> I liked Dinah's reply, as I made pretty clear in my response to it. She validated my feelings and I didn't feel told what to do.
>
> I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just looking for help and some kinds of help I don't find helpful.--
And instead of:
> I really FEEL for your PAIN and frustration I REALLY DO...but I feel that youre biting a lot of hands that are typing and trying to help.
How about:
> I really FEEL for your PAIN and frustration I REALLY DO...but I feel that others that are typing and trying to help feel frustrated, too.
--
And instead of:
> i don't like being told to flip a coin.
How about:
> i don't think flipping a coin would help.
--
And instead of:
> OK no problem good luck on whatever you decide I just won't post to you.
How about:
> OK no problem good luck on whatever you decide, I just feel frustrated.
--
And instead of:
> To have you respond by saying that I don't get it and that I think you're doing therapy wrong and wasting your life is not only a misinterpration of my message but it's disrespectful of me and the time and thought I put into your situation.
How about:
> To have you respond by saying that I don't get it and that I think you're doing therapy wrong and wasting your life made me feel I'm doing posting wrong and wasting the time and thought I put into your situation.
--
And instead of:
> please, Rigby, don't do me any more favors. *Especially* if I'm not allowed to have a response to them. Those are favors I don't need.
How about, well, just skipping that? Or, as Fallen later suggested:
> thanks, Rigby, for trying to help.
--
And instead of:
> I too feel very hurt by all the time I spent trying to help and how much of what I said was also misinterprated in a disrespectful way. I have NO problem with someone saying this isn't what they want or need but I have never had anyone in all the time I have been on Babble be so disrespectful of my time and that of other poster's time and feelings. FEELING PUT DOWN is an understatement.
How about:
> I too feel very hurt. I spent a lot of time trying to help. I have NO problem with someone saying this isn't what they want or need but FEELING PUT DOWN is an understatement.
--
Taking a step back also means time to preview what you've typed:
> Babble is a place ... to learn about my own methods of interaction (what works, what doesn't work, what I should stop / start / do more of.)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/411257.html
> I have found that babble gives me the opportunity to practice responding rather than reacting to others. Because we aren’t face to face and we write rather than speak we have the opportunity to really think about our posts before hitting ‘submit’.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/413401.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by crushedout on December 23, 2004, at 13:58:34
In reply to Re: Deep breaths (and I-statements), posted by Dr. Bob on December 23, 2004, at 13:50:29
Wow, Dr. Bob, that was a really good lesson in I-statements. Thanks for helping.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 23, 2004, at 18:11:52
In reply to Re: Deep breaths (and I-statements) » Dr. Bob, posted by crushedout on December 23, 2004, at 13:58:34
Now I am just being a sh*t, and this really is a joke
but instead of
> Thanks for helping.
How about
I feel helped.
Heh heh. Have a good holiday crushed :-)
PS(I'm not trying to pick on you, nor Dr B either)
Posted by crushedout on December 23, 2004, at 22:28:49
In reply to Re: Deep breaths (and I-statements), posted by alexandra_k on December 23, 2004, at 18:11:52
thanks for the injection of humor, alexandra. :)
Posted by alexandra_k on December 24, 2004, at 1:13:55
In reply to lol » alexandra_k, posted by crushedout on December 23, 2004, at 22:28:49
Thanks for finding it funny
or for at least saying so :-)
I am in a bit of a funny mood...
Posted by gardenergirl on December 27, 2004, at 15:47:57
In reply to Re: lol » crushedout, posted by alexandra_k on December 24, 2004, at 1:13:55
Posted by crushedout on December 27, 2004, at 23:46:47
In reply to Crushed? How are you doing? (nm), posted by gardenergirl on December 27, 2004, at 15:47:57
GG, you are really nice for asking.i'm still struggling a lot with depression and missing the T (not sure whether those two things are connected or just compounding one another) but things are a little better. i think i may desperately need a med adjustment but am too depressed to deal with the pdocs. i've called a few and i really don't like them.
i had a hard day today, because i saw my mom with whom i have a difficult relationship, and some friends of hers who were giving me a lot of sh*t because they think i'm not living my life the way i should. they think i should be making a lot of money. and one of them was really nasty about it. anyway, on the way home, i ran into this guy i dated briefly on the subway, and he missed his stop and then we ended up hanging out and kissing and it was kind of really nice. he gave me a massage and he was a really good kisser. and he gave me some ideas about meds i could try. (he's been struggling with similar stuff lately and has found something that was really helpful -- lamictal -- but i don't want to get redirected to the med board.)
oh geez, am i manic? this post seems manic. i don't want to find out that i'm bipolar on top of everything else.
:)
crushed
Posted by fallsfall on December 28, 2004, at 7:48:55
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing? » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on December 27, 2004, at 23:46:47
No, you don't sound manic to me.
I'm glad you connected with someone who could help normalize your experiences. You sound pretty lonely to me, though. Post often. I'm here.
Posted by crushedout on December 28, 2004, at 10:19:43
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing? » crushedout, posted by fallsfall on December 28, 2004, at 7:48:55
Thanks, falls. I guess I am really lonely. :(
Posted by Annierose on December 28, 2004, at 20:18:06
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing? » fallsfall, posted by crushedout on December 28, 2004, at 10:19:43
Crushed - So sorry to hear how rough these past few weeks have been for you. Is T2 on vacation, or when is your next appointment? It doesn't feel good to be alone in this mess, but we are here for you. Hasn't it been 2 months without T1? That's a long time. Thinking of you - Annierose
Posted by crushedout on December 29, 2004, at 11:16:17
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing?, posted by Annierose on December 28, 2004, at 20:18:06
Thanks, Annierose. Yes, T2 is on vacation. I see her again on Monday. Yep it's been two months without T1. It is a long time.
> Crushed - So sorry to hear how rough these past few weeks have been for you. Is T2 on vacation, or when is your next appointment? It doesn't feel good to be alone in this mess, but we are here for you. Hasn't it been 2 months without T1? That's a long time. Thinking of you - Annierose
Posted by Annierose on December 29, 2004, at 16:15:54
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing? » Annierose, posted by crushedout on December 29, 2004, at 11:16:17
But you ARE doing this. I hope you find the strength to continue. I know how hard it is! I left my T after 4+ years in mid-session and never returned until now ... 15 years later. I do remember how painful it was at first. But it does get easier. In fact, after I quit therapy, a few months later my husband left me for another woman. So I guess the pain from therapy was replaced with another kind of loss. Boy am I glad he left me. What was I thinking?
Posted by crushedout on December 29, 2004, at 16:23:36
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing?, posted by Annierose on December 29, 2004, at 16:15:54
wait, you mean 15 years later you've gone back to your OLD shrink? the one you left? i'm confused.and was your marriage bad? did you ever remarry?
Posted by annierose on December 29, 2004, at 22:35:49
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing? » Annierose, posted by crushedout on December 29, 2004, at 16:23:36
Yes, yes and yes.
Yes, I went back to my first T after 15 years.
I was so curious to see how we both turned out, so to speak. I was just out of college when I started seeing her, and she was working on her PhD at the time. We really both look the same, just older. She still holds firm boundaries, but is more relaxed and talkative as a T. She had sent me a Christmas card last year, totally out of the blue! Freaked me out. I had sent her holiday cards time to time (especially if I had a photo of my kids on them), but she NEVER EVER responded, even after I walked out mid-session. So the card was "what the heckers!". So I called her and made an appointment last January. I thought I would just wrap things up with her, and then, next thing I know, I'm in this family battle
(my parents) and a legal battle. So I was so glad to have her support throughout the year.Yes, my first husband left me after only a 15 month marriage. I refer to it as my "starter marriage". No kids with him, thankfully. And yes, I remarried 3 years later to my current husband, we have 2 kids (11 and 6).
See, one never knows the curve balls life is going to throw your way. I am so glad I am back in treatment with my T1. But I am extremely thankful, I waited. We grew.
Posted by crushedout on December 30, 2004, at 8:36:30
In reply to Re: YES! » crushedout, posted by annierose on December 29, 2004, at 22:35:49
*why* did you walk out midsession? (maybe you told me and i forgot.)(this is a crazy story.)
Posted by Annierose on December 30, 2004, at 19:06:05
In reply to Re: YES! » annierose, posted by crushedout on December 30, 2004, at 8:36:30
Crushed - No, I never posted about this before.
And it's hard to make it short and to the point. Warning, I'm on vacation, skiing w/family (they're on the slopes) and I have a terrible internet connection.
Anyway, I was seeing her for 4+ years (i forget) and I was getting frustrated with her silences, always reflecting, never sharing, but I did like her and connect, we had some great moments and I learned a ton about myself, but I was always frustrated. I guess I wanted her to be more human, more herself. She was, at the time, very rigid (heck, she was fresh out of school, and went to a psychodynamic program).
And she kept encouraging me (gently, she felt) to try and lie down. I guess you can say I'm fairly highly strung. Always have my radar on. So on this day, she says to me, "Annie, I know you are a very perceptive person. And I think you know something about me and are not sharing it." I'm thinking to myself, what in the world is she talking about! I pause, think and say, "are you pregnant?". Yes, she was and "see, you did know." I didn't know, I guessed, (and those were not her exact words, way more psychologically spoken. I sat silently and said something like, "this is crazy, I quit" and we never spoke again. Well actually I think she called me when I missed my next appointment, but the conversation was very brief, "Please come in so we can talk about this." "No, I quit." Obviously, I didn't quit over this one interaction.I would be curious to get Garden Girls feedback as well. Because now that I am back with her, I have brought up why I quit 3 times. "Do you think it's important that we talk about it?" kind of topics and she skirts over it EVERY time. She did say on our first meeting in 2004, that she probably felt huge and projected things onto me, and she is more experienced now to handled these situations, but she doesn't want to delve deeper than that. It's so surprising to me. She was always the one never taking anything at face value, and now, it's the pink elephant sitting in the room. Any thoughts?
Posted by crushedout on December 30, 2004, at 20:16:34
In reply to Re: YES! Crushed GG, posted by Annierose on December 30, 2004, at 19:06:05
What about the pregnancy incident made you get up and leave? Were you angry? If you were, what about it made you angry?I'm just curious and trying to understand.
Posted by Annierose on December 31, 2004, at 7:18:21
In reply to Re: YES! Crushed GG » Annierose, posted by crushedout on December 30, 2004, at 20:16:34
That she couldn't tell me straight out she was pregnant. Instead, it was wacky, putting in on me that I knew and was withholding. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. As I had no idea. It just confirmed to me that in even sharing the happiest news in her life, she still couldn't do it.
Don't you think it's odd?
Posted by crushedout on December 31, 2004, at 8:33:40
In reply to Re: YES! Crushed GG, posted by Annierose on December 31, 2004, at 7:18:21
I do think it's odd.
Posted by Annierose on December 31, 2004, at 11:49:22
In reply to Re: YES! Crushed GG » Annierose, posted by crushedout on December 31, 2004, at 8:33:40
... that you are having such a hard time right now. Grieving is a painful process to sort out, and unfortunately it does take time.
Thank you for taking the time to read "my story". I do like my T, but I'm glad that I quit when I did and went back when I did. With the passage of time, she is more comfortable and experienced. Although she keeps firm boundries, I do think she shares more now.
I'm glad you have an appointment on Monday. You'll probably feel slightly better. How are your new meds working? Thninking of you, Annie
Posted by crushedout on December 31, 2004, at 12:00:22
In reply to Re: Sorry Crushed, posted by Annierose on December 31, 2004, at 11:49:22
Thanks, Annie. Just started them about an hour ago, so I can't really say how the meds are working, although I wondered to myself for a moment if I couldn't feel the difference already. :)
Posted by terrics on December 31, 2004, at 16:12:47
In reply to I'm very close to going back to old T, posted by crushedout on December 21, 2004, at 21:33:08
Hi Crushed, You have a big decision. Try not to make it too quickly. How long have you been with the new T. Someone said to discuss this with your new T. Sounds like a very good idea. I remember when you were writing about old T. and 'mutual love?? affection?? attraction??'. Hope you do not mind me telling you of some things that went on with me. I left my 'beloved' T. for DBT. DBT therapists are rather strict, at least mine is. I am intimidated by her....she has extemely stong boundaries whereas the other one had almost no boundaries. Both Ts are intelligent. But, I have to say that my current T. is a better therapist because I am not intertwined in her stuff. Also, because I am borderline she really GETS me(meaning my problems and knowing how I really feel or don't feel). I was lucky in one way though. My old T. and I stayed friends. (I want more, but I am unsure of her feelings. She always sends double messages). She did kiss me on the mouth once but it was a peck. She knows I love her. She says 'I love you' however I think she means it platonically. The important thing I want to tell you is that if I had to make a choice between her friendship and my current treatment I would chose the latter. New T. actually realized I was not playing games when I wanted to...S She would not let me leave and went over the session time which she NEVER does. She insisted I call my pdoc while in her office. I felt protected. I am learning to function better in the world but am still very depressed. Probably because no one has found meds. that really work on borderlines...I think very much of BPD is chemical and right now I have to put up with the depression or something else. OOPS! Sorry I went too far
I really hope you find the right answer. Much luck. Terrics
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:12:56
In reply to Re: Crushed? How are you doing? » gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on December 27, 2004, at 23:46:47
You don't sound manic to me, either, just perhaps confused and upset?
Being around my mother is not all that healthy for me, either. I'm sorry it was upsetting to you. I think that those who have never expererienced depression just can't figure out why we dont' do what they think we "should" be doing. I hate that word, "should."
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:23:29
In reply to Re: YES! Crushed GG, posted by Annierose on December 30, 2004, at 19:06:05
Annierose,
It sounds like your T is very psychodynamic indeed. I think that's why she disclosed her pregnancy to you the way she did. Even if she were not psychodynamic in orientation, she just might be one who believes in no self-disclosure, and that any that occurs has to be in terms of what it means to the client. It sure sounds like it was a clumsy way of disclosing it, though.As far as not addressing it now, I admit I'm surprised by that. Perhaps you can get her to address it with you by talking about how puzzled you are that she does not seem to want to talk about something that you clearly do. That dynamic in and of itself is interesting and probably fodder for the therapy mill.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Annierose on January 2, 2005, at 9:14:56
In reply to Re: YES! Crushed GG » Annierose, posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:23:29
Thank you for your input. This site sure has me thinking all the time ... in a good way. I appreciate everyone's point of view.
A few weeks ago, I brought up directly, "Is it important that you understand why I walked out years ago?" And she said, "only if you would like to talk about it and feel it's important." ... But then she doesn't persue that conversation. Normally, she would go down a road with me, and this one, she avoids. I just find it interesting.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.