![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 13:39:22
Suddenly started wondering if my ex T fully understood me. He understood my brains and my day to day issues, but I wonder if he ever understood me as a person completely.
I don't know if he ever understood what I looked for from him.. Why I kept writing to him, why I felt so extremely dependant on him, and why I still kind of miss him. What I am, how I feel. What my emotions are..
All the communication was through emails, and I hadn't been as open to him as I am here as well.. Partly because the volume of emails was limited, and partly because I didn't get as much replies from him as I get here. It would have taken tons and tons and tons of emails back and forth to have gotten all that I got out here with him.
I am now wondering if he ever thought of me as a flirt, as some over spoilt only child, as some nag and non stop nuisance or arrogant person. Initially he never liked me (from what my husband told me later). He kept urging my husband to leave me - because he thought I was no good. And I was very depressed at that time, and was getting extremely angry and throwing things and crying and shouting. But I have tried to change a lot in these past 3 years. And I wondering if he ever changed his opinion or still thinks like that.
Posted by rockymtnhi on May 18, 2005, at 14:50:24
In reply to Wondering if my Ex T understood me, posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 13:39:22
It sounds like you have a lot of unfinished business with your ex T.Even though it is unrealistic, I wish you had a day to spend with him to let out all of your feelings and get some answers.
In reference to your comments about your husband, I would like to share a story with you about my ex-T. My ex-T kept asking my husband why he didn't leave me...I was a terrible housekeeper, unloving, etc. Of course, my husband would come home and tell me these things and I always felft betrayed by my ex T because of it. As it turns out, what my ex T was really saying to my husband was why did he stay? He was pointing out to him that there obviously more good than bad, he just choose to look at the bad. I hope your ex-T was helping your husband to see what a treasure that you are.
Posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 15:18:31
In reply to Re: Wondering if my Ex T understood me, posted by rockymtnhi on May 18, 2005, at 14:50:24
Thanks Rocky for the kind words.
As to the comment to my husband - I think he was right at that time. I was not behaving well at all. To my credit, I was extremely depressed at that time, but my ex T didn't think I was depressed. I was so emotionally tortured and crying and angry and agitated at that time. But I was pretty logical even then. So my ex T thought I was fine. And I had only a few sessions face to face - now I realize it is impossible for anyone to see through my "logical fineness" for anyone in that short span of time. Even my current T initially thought I was very ok. It took her lot of time and face to face interaction to understand that I was really depressed. Many people don't suspect anything is wrong with me when they see me. In college, I was thought of as the most cheerful person in the whole class, and even in my work, everybody used to think I am an excellent person and that I am happy. It takes a long time to cut through my facade. And I had become so good at putting on a happy face and intelligent face for my whole life time (I understood later that I had to put that because I was afraid of my dad - he wouldn't let me be anything less. he would never let me get any emotional nurturing and openness).
So my ex T thought - "Oh.. she is very capable and understanding.. So she must be arrogant and cruel to do all this to her husband".. And I think that is what his whole perception of me has been. I don't blame him. Only I tried to show him my real self and I failed horribly.
But the only issue that I fail miserably even now is this going back to India or staying in the US. It is so emotionally hard for me even now. The major blunder that I made in my life was to have
married my hsuband agreeing to go back to India. And that is a mistake I have paid very very dearly in my life in the past 4 years. and I think I will continue to pay a huge price for that mistake. I give in in other areas, but this one is extremely hard for me. Mainly beucase of the way I was brought up. Every day, several times my dad used to tell me that Is hould go to the US. So it is almost like giving up on my faith now.I don't think I will ever get more closure from my ex T than what I already got. I have stopped all contact with him, and I don't think he will ever write again to me. And he told me finally there was no question of liking me or disliking me. That is the best that I got after 2 and a half years.. One more day is not going to change that, and it is perhaps unreasonable of me to expect any more understanding from my ex T. What I have to figure out is to how to move on with what I got. And not keep longing for more. I have to make peace with it and let go. That is what I am trying. But it is awfully hard to move on, knowing that the person you came the closest to and who you thought understood you, finally didn't understand you, and worse yet, didn't like you. That is a huge defeat for me. But I cannot do anything about it now.
Posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 14:53:09
In reply to Re: Wondering if my Ex T understood me » rockymtnhi, posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 15:18:31
I know it is pointless rumination..
But anyway, I still have this deep desire to make my Ex T understand me fully. I want to go and explain everything, my child hood, what happened with my father, why I had behaved the way I had, why I had so much of intense longing for him (and why I still do).. how emotionally messed up I had been even though I appeared all together.
I so wish he would understand me.. and tell me I am ok human.. not too bad. That he cares about me and wants me to be well and happy. I even want him to say how he terminated me was wrong. That he shouldn't have left me abruptly like that with one email.
Well, here pinkeye goes .. round and round in circles. And with no hope of breaking the loop :-(I should change my name to something like "The Ruminator" or something like The Terminator.
Posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 20:16:25
In reply to Will my ex T understand if I tell him now?? » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 14:53:09
He probably understood all along.. maybe he didn't know the full pinkeye, but he knew the significant enough portions of her. And that is enough to form a judgement about a person.
And it probably won't make any difference whatsoever - more of my sob story or why I behaved the way I did, or why I became so messed up. The end result is I ended up being messed up completely, and he knew it. Ts must see lots of us, and they would become immune to all this sad stories I guess.
However, slowly I am coming to realize that is not the point at all. What he thought of me is not the point. If he understood me, liked me, cared about me or he thought I was a nuisance, irritating, or pitiable etc. The point is what I think of myself and whether I think of myself as a good person, whether I empathize with myself, whether I allow myself to forgive myself and heal. The point is to become happy and cheerful irrespective of what difficulties I have and or had.
And this whole idea of the therapist being your soul mate and having an intense connection is all not true. They see so many patients, and it is impossible for them to feel connected to every patient. It is just us projecting things on to them .. like a blind man trying to figure out an elephant. I don't think he and I are soul mates.. or that we have any deep connection or anything. In fact after reading this board so much, I now understand how much of a cliche it has become to like your therapist, that it is almost feels extremely stupid. He is a good guy and a decent guy and took charge of me and helped me and I really like him as a person. But I don't know anything beyond that about him, and he doesn't know much about me either other than what I have told him myself. And it is such limited knowledge. It is all transference. Complete transference. He probably felt pity and thought he should help me out.. and now I understand what he meant when he said "there is no question of my liking or disliking you".. I now know that he has been completely indifferent all along, and will be so in the future also. And I don't feel too bad about it now. I learnt a lot, and he took care of me very well when he was my Dr. And that is more than enough. I should be able to go on on my own hereafter without depending on him.
I will be able to just take all the learnings without hurting anymore. And I have thankfully beocme a little nicer than what I was 3 years back, and maybe I will just proceed in this way. And my husband might turn out to be a better guy, and I will live happily ever after.
Just talking to myself.. ignore me.
Just talking to myself.
Posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 20:21:54
In reply to I think it wouldn't have made a difference anyway » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 20:16:25
How he keeps running running running, and one day gets tired and stops running. I think I have made my peace - more or less.
Posted by Dinah on May 20, 2005, at 21:46:04
In reply to I think it wouldn't have made a difference anyway » pinkeye, posted by pinkeye on May 20, 2005, at 20:16:25
I wish you could be a fly on the wall in my therapy sessions sometimes. Even a relationship with strict boundaries can be very special, and very intimate. And I'm one of the best around at picking up on what's going on around me, so I don't think I'm being misled.
There's no romance, there are fairly strict boundaries - even for a therapist, yet there is a goodly amount of affection, expressed and unexpressed, and an even greater degree of intimacy.
There isn't any horrible pain, because I don't want more than he can give.
I wish everyone could experience it.
Posted by pinkeye on May 22, 2005, at 17:43:23
In reply to Re: I think it wouldn't have made a difference anyway » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 20, 2005, at 21:46:04
I understand what you mean by having the right expectations. I failed big time in that. Maybe my transference was causing it.. but I understand it is my incorrect expectations that led to lot of the hurt. But after understanding everything also, I still fail to see how I manage to still feel bad about termination.
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 18:18:21
In reply to Re: I think it wouldn't have made a difference anyway » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 22, 2005, at 17:43:23
You manage to feel bad because loss hurts. Pure and simple.
If you had lost someone you cared about to death, no one would think twice about your hurting. It would be expected.
You've lost someone. You hurt. It stinks.
(((Pinkeye)))
Posted by pinkeye on May 22, 2005, at 18:26:14
In reply to Re: I think it wouldn't have made a difference anyway » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 18:18:21
Hmm. So Why don't Ts understand it?
Why do they think one termination mail, and I should be all fine and up and running and be able to go on and forget?
Posted by Dinah on May 22, 2005, at 18:54:49
In reply to Re: I think it wouldn't have made a difference anyway » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 22, 2005, at 18:26:14
Maybe they don't. But maybe sometimes there is no alternative.
Posted by JenStar on May 22, 2005, at 20:07:34
In reply to Wondering if my Ex T understood me, posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 13:39:22
PInkeye,
can you trust the things your husband said about your T? Those sound like serious issues - that he urged your husband to leave you, that he didn't like you. I find it hard to believe that to be true, since you seem like a thoughtful, intelligent person - NOT a spoiled brat! Is it possible that that communication is being filtered through your husband's perception and could be wrong? I don't think a T could be helpful to YOU if he was telling your husband to leave you. That sound extremely unhealthy. If that is the case, then NO, your T could not have understood the real you. And he didn't do you justice either. (((pinkeye)))JenStar
Posted by JenStar on May 22, 2005, at 20:10:27
In reply to Wondering if my Ex T understood me, posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 13:39:22
Pinkeye, is your ex-T from India, too? You mentioned that the culture there is very steeped in patriarchy and a bit of condescension towards women. You also said that your T did NOT keep your conversations private, but would talk to your family about what you said. To me, that is a huge violation of the relationship and means that you could not possibly have been getting "real" therapy that was "really" helping you. It almost sounds MORE damaging to you, because you had to put up an extra shell of care to hide certain things, wonder what was said about you, etc. To me it sounds like the ex-T was actually a hindrance to your progress.
If you go back to India, would it be possible to have a Western-style T who respects your privacy truly and listens and assists?
I'm concerned about you! ((pinkeye))
JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on May 22, 2005, at 20:17:58
In reply to Re: Wondering if my Ex T understood me » pinkeye, posted by JenStar on May 22, 2005, at 20:10:27
Oh No. My ex T didn't do anything wrong.
The style in India is totally different. I went to therapy with everyone in my family - my husband, my father, my mother. And my ex T has spoken to everyone individually. Intiially I went for marital counselling becuase of the same India/US issue at that time as well. And I WAS BEING EXTREMELY BAD. I was angry, shouting at my husband, throwing things, cursing everyone etc. I was very depressed.
He didn't go behind my back and tell others things that I told him. He most certainly did not. But I think it was a honest assessment at that time that I was not behaving well, and my husband was being quite very nice at that time. If I had been a therapist, and a couple comes to me for marital counselling, and the wife was behaving like I did, I would have advised the husband to leave the wife myself. And that is what he did too. I don't hold it against him.
But after that, I continued to write to him when I came back to the US and continued sort of marital + indivudual therapy with him, and my husband did not keep in touch with him. And my ex T has been very helpful in the past 2 and half years.
Only that I am trying to find out reasons on why my exT didn't like me much, and I am thinking maybe it has to do with my behaviour in the first year and he probably didn't recongnize I had changed. Just my own rumination.. not really anything to do with my exT. He was most certainly not hindering my progress.
Anyway, I wrote to him today an email. I don't think he would reply, but atleast I felt relieved.
Posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 4:21:01
In reply to Re: Wondering if my Ex T understood me » JenStar, posted by pinkeye on May 22, 2005, at 20:17:58
I’m glad that you feel relieved about writing an email to your ex T. I’m sure he’ll be pleased to hear from you. And if he doesn’t reply it’s probably because he’s keeping the boundaries.
I was thinking about what you said about the way you were behaving when you started therapy with him, and I have to admit I was pretty unpleasant to be around when I was very depressed, too. I was always shouting and throwing things and generally being horrible to my husband and kids. But I think it was because of the depression; I wasn’t being horrible for no reason. I don’t think you should be too hard on yourself about how you were behaving when you were so depressed.
Someone (I think it was JenStar) made a comment that I thought was really important. Will you be able to find a sympathetic therapist if you do decide to return to India?
Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 12:53:08
In reply to Re: Wondering if my Ex T understood me » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 4:21:01
Thanks Tamar for the validation. When we become depressed, we do horrible things which we are not even fully aware of.
I guess then it was ok.
As to my email - I hope he responds.. But I don't want to hope. I started crying after that.. I was so ashamed of myself for writing again when he clearly is not encouraging it. I started having nightmares yesterday again imagining all possible worst scenarios.. what if he snubs me or completely ignores me.
I am trying to just leave it and not focus on it too much. But I was hurting very much and couldn't go on at all.. that is why I ended up writing. But now I feel more bad that I wrote.
This thing never ends.
Posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 15:24:17
In reply to Re: Wondering if my Ex T understood me » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 12:53:08
> Thanks Tamar for the validation. When we become depressed, we do horrible things which we are not even fully aware of.
>
> I guess then it was ok.> As to my email - I hope he responds.. But I don't want to hope. I started crying after that.. I was so ashamed of myself for writing again when he clearly is not encouraging it. I started having nightmares yesterday again imagining all possible worst scenarios.. what if he snubs me or completely ignores me.
Unfortunately, if he hasn’t replied to your other emails, he might not reply to this one. But even if he doesn’t reply, at least you know that he appreciates how much progress you’ve made.
> I am trying to just leave it and not focus on it too much. But I was hurting very much and couldn't go on at all.. that is why I ended up writing. But now I feel more bad that I wrote.
I felt something similar after I sent my ex-T a thank you note. Before I sent it I thought I’d feel better. But then I realised I wanted him to reply, and I felt worse, because I knew he wouldn’t. So I decided to think of it as something I was giving to him unconditionally (which, after all, is the purpose of a thank you note!). And even though he didn’t reply, I knew for sure he would be pleased to hear from me. I guess it’s about having the confidence to know that your T cared about your mental health and would be pleased to know you’ve made progress.
> This thing never ends.It feels that way, doesn’t it? I don’t know when it will feel more sweet than bitter, but I have to hope that time will heal it a little bit. I hope that time will help you too.
Posted by pinkeye on May 23, 2005, at 15:59:27
In reply to Re: Wondering if my Ex T understood me » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 23, 2005, at 15:24:17
Thanks Tamar.
I understand what you are saying. I think he most likely won't reply anymore. And I have to prepare myself for it.
Hopefully time will dull everything, even if it doesn't heal. I want to heal this time though.. not just make it dull everytime. I don't really want to repeat this episode ever again.
I wish I didn't have transference. I wish it had been much easie to say goodbye. I wish I hadn't projected everything from my dad onto my ex T. It all feels very stupid now, and extremely tough to sort out everything. I feel like going to the arctic pole and hibernating like a bear and not see anyone and not think of anything for 6 months.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.