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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:48:17
At our last appointment my T and I were mostly talking about my relationship with my parents, and just a little about my relationship with my own family, esp. my husband. Anyway, toward the end of the session it came out that my mom blamed me for the divorce between her and my dad. He looked shocked, and said, "Why?!" Well, of course, that's not something you can answer in 5 minutes, so I told him it would take another appointment.
The problems is that if I tell it in context, it invoves the first "therapy" I had, which caused a lot of friction between my mom and my dad. My dad hated the psychiatrist, and my mom was sucked in by him. It was just all so incredibly bizarre. To me, looking back, the guy was just twisted. I'd never take my kids to him, or anyone like him, but my mom was an idiot about doctors. Whenever I brought up this therapy with my last T he acted like talking about it was off limits or taboo. I didn't tell him much, but now I'm afraid to talk about it because it really was bizarre. It was such a big part of what went wrong during that part of my life, I can't really leave it out.
What do I do?
fw
Posted by Annierose on September 3, 2005, at 7:03:05
In reply to Where we left off..........., posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:48:17
It sounds important. I would try my hardest to tell him about it. The hardest stuff is sometimes the most healing. Sometimes it may take more than one or two sessions. You may want to start with just a small fact about that time, and slowly work towards the parts that are really hurtful.
Posted by rainbowbrite on September 3, 2005, at 9:10:16
In reply to Where we left off..........., posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:48:17
Hi FW
Its really important to talk about it. Try to warn him you are about to say negative things about a therapy experience. Personally I think it is the old T that might have had a problem with it. Did you give a name? maybe he recognized it or who knows. But honestly you should be able to tell him and if he reacts strange it might have to do with their own insecurities. I think people get uneasy talking about others in thier profession negatively, so they dont want to say anything 'wrong'. Explain the other reaction your old T had as well, it should help and hopefully you can have a better experience talking about it.
Posted by happyflower on September 3, 2005, at 9:15:53
In reply to Where we left off..........., posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:48:17
My T always says, if it is important to you then we talk about it . I wouldn't let your experience with your last T influence what you tell your current T. I think you have a good T now, and you should tell him about everything even if takes more than one session like Annie said. It seems like if you leave out this important information, things won't make much sense, like a piece missing from a puzzle. Take your time, I am sure he will want the whole picture. Good luck! :)
Posted by 10derHeart on September 3, 2005, at 12:12:11
In reply to Where we left off..........., posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:48:17
If it still seems too, too hard to say, maybe bring this post (you summarized the situation nicely!), warn him it says negative things about a T. from a long time ago, and let him read it? Just if you want to really get it out there quickly...?
Like others said, not being able to tolerate negativity about previous T's IS the T's problem! I think it's rare and you had rotten luck with that last one. I've told two T's really blunt, possibly rude things about prior therapy, because I felt they were true and accurate, and these things hurt me! So they needed to know.
In fact, last week, I told my T. that another T. I saw in 2003 for a while, although mostly good, was "monumentally stupid and insensitive," in the way she treated a certain issue. Guess what? He agreed! Went on a little rant of his own about how her reaction and remarks were "so, so HER stuff, not yours!"
You can do this, fw, you'll find the right way. Be patient with yourself and T., okay?
Posted by fallsfall on September 3, 2005, at 13:52:05
In reply to Where we left off..........., posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:48:17
I had fears of talking about certain things with my second therapist because of my first therapist's reaction to them. My second therapist kept saying "I'm not First Therapist". And he isn't. If you talk about your reaction to your first therapist's reaction before you talk about the "thing" it might help.
But it does sound like something that you need to talk about.
Posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 21:09:36
In reply to Re: Where we left off........... » fairywings, posted by Annierose on September 3, 2005, at 7:03:05
Thank you everyone for responding to me. I ran the issues by my husband this evening. He knew basics but not details, he knew my parents well enough to know it was difficult. Tonight I explained why my mom blamed me for my parents affair after I was raped, and then their divorce. And how I ended up with a shrink who wasn't good for me, and what led to the SI, which only happened once, but still haunts me.
It took me a little over an hour to tell him, leaving out the details of the rape. He agrees it's important to tell my T because it's such a huge part of what happened to me, he was shocked and hurt for me, and thought leaving it out leaves a huge gap in my history - age 15 - 17, and a lot of hurt and anger. He understands now why I can't just "let go", like he has always wanted me to do; he knows he still doesn't know everything.
Anyway,
Annie, I hope you are right, I hope telling him is healing somehow. Telling my husband was really hard, and afterwards I just felt dirty.
Rainbow, you asked if I gave the name of a T and possibly this is why the T was defensive. No, this was in a different city, and years ago. I think he just didn't want to hear the details, didn't want to deal with the messy stuff.
Happy, I think you're right, nothing else would make sense at all if I leave this out. I hope he wants the whole picture and isn't like the last T, if he is, I'll be crushed and done.
10der, my husband thought too that having it in writing might be good just because it took so long for me to tell him, and reading it might take less time, BUT I don't want this on paper when my mom died I was so glad that there was no one left who knew the details of my past, no one left to throw my past up in my face, like she did for so many years. So maybe write it down, but don't let him keep it!? I think telling him that it was my perception that my last T seemed not to want to talk about this might be okay. I don't think he would react badly if I told him this even though they work together. But my husband and I agreed that I will not tell him specific comments that my last T made since they work together, and some of the comments were just outright wrong.
Thanks falls, I think it would be good to tell him that it was my perception that my last T acted as if this was off limits because it does make it more difficult for me to talk about this. As a matter of fact, I hate to admit this to anyone, but the appt. when I told the last T about the rape, was the appt. when he took the personal phone call! I think if this T knew that, he'd be outraged, and rightfully so, but I don't want to see him outraged. I don't want to discuss the rape with him because of that, it was not beneficial to talk about it last time. I will tell him that it happened, and I will tell him why I won't talk about it now, but I won't discuss it, maybe sometime later. I have my reasons, there were other comments, and it didn't help. I know he wouldn't do the same thing, but.....well, you know.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
fw
Posted by Tamar on September 3, 2005, at 21:31:20
In reply to Re: Where we left off...........***trigger***, posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 21:09:36
Hi fairywings,
I think it’s amazing that you talked about it with your husband. It seems to me that it’s great that you were able to do that.
> Thank you everyone for responding to me. I ran the issues by my husband this evening. He knew basics but not details, he knew my parents well enough to know it was difficult. Tonight I explained why my mom blamed me for my parents affair after I was raped, and then their divorce. And how I ended up with a shrink who wasn't good for me, and what led to the SI, which only happened once, but still haunts me.
It sounds as if there’s a lot you need to talk about in therapy. The situation you describe is truly awful (and sadly not uncommon as far as I can tell). I imagine it could take a while to get through all this stuff in therapy, and I can also imagine that it could be scary to contemplate it. But if you build a trusting relationship with your therapist I really think it’s possible.
> It took me a little over an hour to tell him, leaving out the details of the rape. He agrees it's important to tell my T because it's such a huge part of what happened to me, he was shocked and hurt for me, and thought leaving it out leaves a huge gap in my history - age 15 - 17, and a lot of hurt and anger. He understands now why I can't just "let go", like he has always wanted me to do; he knows he still doesn't know everything.
>
> Anyway,
>
> Annie, I hope you are right, I hope telling him is healing somehow. Telling my husband was really hard, and afterwards I just felt dirty.Yeah, it’s hard to get that stuff out to someone as close as a husband. I think you’ve been really brave. And the feeling of being dirty is very normal. Talking about that in therapy can be really helpful (at least, that was my experience).
> Thanks falls, I think it would be good to tell him that it was my perception that my last T acted as if this was off limits because it does make it more difficult for me to talk about this. As a matter of fact, I hate to admit this to anyone, but the appt. when I told the last T about the rape, was the appt. when he took the personal phone call! I think if this T knew that, he'd be outraged, and rightfully so, but I don't want to see him outraged. I don't want to discuss the rape with him because of that, it was not beneficial to talk about it last time. I will tell him that it happened, and I will tell him why I won't talk about it now, but I won't discuss it, maybe sometime later. I have my reasons, there were other comments, and it didn't help. I know he wouldn't do the same thing, but.....well, you know.
I have to admit, I’m outraged that your former therapist took a phone call in a session where you were talking about your experience of rape. So I can imagine that your current therapist might be outraged. Maybe you don’t have to talk about it right now, but perhaps in the future? Sometimes I think other people’s responses when we tell them about being raped can be almost as significant as the experience of rape. It seems to me that a bad response is a huge rejection, and just as depersonalising as being victimised.
Bear in mind that you’re still at the beginning of this relationship. You can take your time if you need to, or if you want to. If you want to get the measure of this therapist before you spill your heart out, that’s fine. When I started talking about my experiences of sexual violence I took it really slowly; I needed to be sure my therapist deserved my trust. So if you need time to get used to your therapist, I think that’s absolutely OK.
I hope he proves himself worthy of your trust.
Tamar
Posted by fairywings on September 4, 2005, at 12:42:50
In reply to Re: Where we left off...........***trigger*** » fairywings, posted by Tamar on September 3, 2005, at 21:31:20
Hi Tamar,Thanks. My husband is so awesome. Since day one he's been so understanding about everything I've ever been through and how it's affected me. Sometimes I'm afraid that he'll have had enough, and leave me, but he's reassured me that "I won't get rid of him that easily"! LOL
I know there's a lot to talk about with my T, and I think he will be someone I can really trust, he's so kind. I find that I just want to race through every thing, and get it over with! I'm not sure I'll feel any less dirty telling it in therapy, but there has to be a reason why ppl do this, and there has to be a reason it makes ppl feel better, and I hope it works for me too. I don't really understand how it is supposed to make you feel better to talk about it, when you won't forget about it, but I know ppl do it all the time, so I just trust that it will.
When I think of telling him why I don't want to talk about the rape, because that's when the last T took the personal call, my heart really races. The last T was better with here and now kind of stuff, and less with past stuff, but he was just stupid to take phone calls, esp. during a time when I needed him to be fully present, and he wasn't. He also told me that if I saw the guys today, they'd say that it was consensual sex! I said, "What?!" He said that when it's aquaintence rape the guys generally see it as consensual. I told him that I didn't need to hear that, I'd never heard that before, and than it was not helpful. He said, "Oh well".
I have such a good feeling about this T. The only thing he could do to lose my trust at this point would be to terminate me. If he told me I was needed more help than he could provide it would be too much, but short of that we'll be okay. I feel that strongly because he and my p-doc are friends, and my p-doc trusts him. I also feel that I can trust him because he said that nothing, short of suicide, would leave the room, and just the way he's reacted to certain things I've told him - genuine reactions that were from the heart.
Anyway, maybe I'll have to ask him next appointment to make sure there's no reason we'd get into all of this and then he'd terminate me.
Thanks,
fw
Posted by Tamar on September 4, 2005, at 14:18:40
In reply to Re: Where we left off...........***trigger*** » Tamar, posted by fairywings on September 4, 2005, at 12:42:50
Hi Fairywings,
I’m glad your husband is so awesome. It’s great that you have that kind of support after everything you’ve been through.
I don’t know why talking works either, but it worked for me. I told my therapist I didn’t want to say the words out loud because it would make it all seem real… but he said that maybe naming my experiences and describing them could give me power over them, or something like that.
It sounds as if your experience telling your former therapist about being raped was quite traumatic, especially if you have a physical reaction when you think about it. And I can’t imagine why he would say that the guys who raped you would see it as consensual. Why on earth would he think that was something useful to say to you?
I think there are some very serious misconceptions about acquaintance rape. I thought for years that the guys who raped me would have seen it as consensual because I couldn’t imagine that they really meant to attack me. But having thought about it a lot over the years, I’ve come to the conclusion that men who commit acts of acquaintance rape know perfectly well that the woman isn’t consenting to it – but they tell themselves she actually wants it; she’s enjoying it; she doesn’t really mean no. Women often have automatic physical responses to sexual violence that they can’t control, and rapists use these as ‘evidence’ that the woman enjoyed it really. So the acquaintance rapists know it’s not really consensual, but they think it’s OK to coerce women into sex. I suppose they might say the woman consented when what they mean is that the woman wanted it, although neither is true.
To be honest, I wish your former therapist would take a postgraduate level course in feminism and gender politics. I apologise if I’m out of line; it’s just such a common experience for women that I think all therapists should know how to handle it sensitively.
I’m so glad you feel you can trust your new therapist, and that he has reassured you and reacted in a genuine way. And maybe if you give it a little bit of time you will feel able to discuss all this with him.
Tamar
Posted by fairywings on September 4, 2005, at 21:49:11
In reply to Re: Where we left off...........***trigger*** » fairywings, posted by Tamar on September 4, 2005, at 14:18:40
Thanks Tamar, I think my husband would have been a great T, but I'm glad he's not, don't need anyone else falling in love with him! LOL
What my ex-T said, and I apologize, I should have said the whole thing, that in aquaintence rape the guys convince themselves after the fact that it's consensual because they know the victim, and usually there's drugs or alcohol involved. And in my case there was alcohol and probably pot involved, and I told him that. You're right though, it wasn't helpful to tell me that, and he shouldn't have told me that, and he should have apologized all over himself when I told him that it was hurtful. He's actually a clinical psychologist and I think fancies himself quite the feminist! LOL He's not a bad guy, just doesn't know when to shut up! He had me read "The Courage To Heal" and warned me that it would be really hard for me to read, and it might take me awhile to read it because of the content, but to just take my time with it, which I thought was really sensitive of him. I'd say 90% of the time he was great, but that other 10% he had his head up his BU**! LOL
thanks
fw
Posted by happyflower on September 4, 2005, at 21:52:38
In reply to Re: Where we left off...........***trigger*** » fairywings, posted by Tamar on September 4, 2005, at 14:18:40
>
>> I don’t know why talking works either, but it worked for me. I told my therapist I didn’t want to say the words out loud because it would make it all seem real… but he said that maybe naming my experiences and describing them could give me power over them, or something like that.I agree with your T about this. I for years didn't want to admit that my parents physically abused me. If I did, then that would have made me "damaged goods". "Damaged goods don't become successful or deserve a good life." These denied facts keep me going in life. But there was always something not right about me . A sadness inside. So I kept the memories inside of me forever until EMDR uncovered those repressed memories of the abuse.
This was the hardest moment in my life when this happened. I couldn't fake it anymore, I had to accept that I was abused, very badly, cruely.Well the first time in my life I had to admit it happened. Admitting it, did take away the control it had over me, and now I feel like I have the control over it. It was a major turning point in my therapy. It is hard to explain, but facing the abuse (when you are now safe) will help you deal with it and heal.
It is hard, but with your new T , I feel you will do great. You are good person, Jazzy, I can't wait until the fail of unhappiness comes off your life. You deserve to have full happiness! ((((JAZZY)))
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