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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Emily Elizabeth on May 9, 2006, at 8:51:01
In reply to T wont stop talking!, posted by wishingstar on May 8, 2006, at 22:51:40
I haven't quite had this problem, but in similar type situations I get a little therapisty on her. I say something like, "I've noticed that you have been talking more lately. What do you make of that?" It is non-confrontational and allows us to think abt the process/relationship. It might work for you.
Best,
EE
Posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 9:41:22
In reply to Re: T wont stop talking!, posted by Emily Elizabeth on May 9, 2006, at 8:51:01
Ohh I do like that idea about asking her a therapist-like question. I may have to try it. For some reason, I think she has gotten very stuck in her own head about all of this and that might be just the thing to get her to consider HER feelings about all this, without mine playing so much into it. Thanks. :)
Posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 9:48:37
In reply to Re: T wont stop talking!, posted by annierose on May 9, 2006, at 6:28:23
When she does let there be silence, I usually get anxious and dont like it.. but I KNOW I'd get used to it quickly and speak. As it is, I'm just blurting out whatever comes to mind and never getting any deeper.
I did write her a letter once maybe 2 months ago telling her that I was struggling with the impulse to hurt myself in order to get her attention (I have a history of self injury, but I think it was pretty clear that I wasnt referring to that in the letter). We did discuss it a little, and I think I even posted about the response here maybe. I told her I didnt feel heard and told her what I needed from her (even though she didnt ask! grr).. she changed things a bit for a few weeks, but it's back to normal now. I'm not sure I could articulate what has changed though. Maybe I need to try a different type of letter. I have been thinking of leaving a message on her voice mail with how I feel, and not asking her to call back.. just so she knows. Thanks for the suggestion though, I'm going to think about it.
And I do like your question suggestion! I am a little bit sarcastic in real life, so it wouldnt feel terribly unnatural. I've also been considering just saying nothing.. not responding at all after she goes on these monologues. Maybe my "I see what you're saying" is reinforcing. And then she'd have to ask why I wasnt talking, right?
Sorry for the rambling.. I think I'm sort of thinking outloud (or.. with my fingers?) here. I appreciate your "listening". :)
Posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 9:51:37
In reply to Re: T wont stop talking! » wishingstar, posted by Dinah on May 9, 2006, at 7:41:24
You're right dinah, I know it isnt my job to protect her feelings. I've talked briefly about that issue in therapy, and she trys to reassure me that she's able to take whatever I throw at her without being hurt.. but it still scares me. But I also know that I'm being more honest than I was 6 months ago.. so I guess I'm getting there. I think she tries insanely hard to keep herself out of therapy, sometimes to the point that it's just silly to me. She has very tight boundaries. All that makes me think she really doesnt realize how she's coming off recently. A letter may be the best way to get that across. Thanks. :)
Posted by happyflower on May 9, 2006, at 11:38:50
In reply to Re: T wont stop talking! » Dinah, posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 9:51:37
Hi wishingstar!
I know everyone has given you some great ideas on what to do. I feel like my T does too much talking sometimes. But he has learned when to let me talk. It seems like when I am talking I look away and then when I am ready for his respons, I look at him. It seems to help because sometimes I am pausing on what I am saying because it is so hard to say and he is ready to fire his gun of a mouth sometimes before I get to finsih what I wanted to say.
Sometimes I tell him, look I have something I need to say, and I need you to be patient with me because I need to get it all out.
GOod luck, some T's like to talk and it is hard to get them to shut up. LOL Being direct is the way to be at least for me. ;-)
Posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 12:09:38
In reply to Re: T wont stop talking!, posted by happyflower on May 9, 2006, at 11:38:50
That's exactly what I'm dealing with.. there are things I need to say, but it's hard.. and when she jumps in and says something when I pause for more than 5 seconds, I never get a chance to. For me, I'm not completely sure what "it" is yet, but I know there is a lot of "it" wanting to be heard and I really dont think I'll feel better until it is. I feel like I've told her that so many times.. SO many times.. why doesnt she hear me? I just got home from driving around town and sort of worked myself up thinking about this. I tell her EXACTLY what I need (I mean, down to the words that will and wont help sometimes).. and nothing. Ever since she found out that I dont have a history of any actual suicide attempts (even though I was intensely suicidal for a long time and am beginning to feel that way again), she doesnt even ask about it. It's like a side comment if I mention it. Shouldnt "hey I'm feeling like hurting myself" raise some sort of flag for her? I know about risk assessment and all, so I know that shes probably thinking I'm not that big of a risk because I've never done anything before.. but geez, it makes me feel 10x worse when she ignores it. I told her that. She still doesnt ask. I think therapy is making me WORSE, not better. Maybe I need to quit.. but sometimes unhelpful attention is better than no attention. I'm trying so hard.. why cant she just hear me?
Sorry. heh.
Posted by antigua on May 9, 2006, at 14:40:46
In reply to Re: T wont stop talking! » happyflower, posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 12:09:38
are there people in your life who didn't/wouldn't hear you when you tried to talk? I know that I get very impatient when my T doesn't HEAR me, but I've kind of learned that although I think I'm speaking as loud and as clearly as I can, it's still not enough. I was so stifled as a child that I know nothing drives me crazier than when someone won't listen to me, or ignores what I'm saying. I'm just a lot more forceful with my T now. I'm not there yet, but geez, you'd think they'd get the hint more often! But they don't. They don't know unless you find a way to connect with them in your telling.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 15:15:37
In reply to Re: T wont stop talking! » wishingstar, posted by antigua on May 9, 2006, at 14:40:46
Oh yes.. definitely. Emotions/feelings are NOT talked about in my family, period. I went through a pretty traumatic time in high school where I was feeling suicidal and no one would help - my parents wouldnt tlak about it or get me help, my school thought I was being manipulative and were quite rude and hurtful.. doesnt sound that bad I guess, but I'm still not over it. It was VERY hard for me. But the answer to your question is a big yes.
Now I'm afraid that maybe I'm overreacting though. She has labeled my frustration with her not hearing me as transference before, so it wouldnt be the first time. Maybe I'm not being as clear as I think I am. I sometimes feel like I'm not even hinting, but telling.. and she misses it.. but I guess its possible what sounds forceful to me is barely even noticable to others. Who knows. It's something to think about.. thanks. :)
Posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 15:20:04
In reply to T wont stop talking!, posted by wishingstar on May 8, 2006, at 22:51:40
Well, I did it.. I left her a voice mail. I'd been trying to talk myself into it all afternoon. She's probably wondering who kept calling it and hanging up! (Does an answering machine show a hang up if you hang up before the beep? I hope not.)
I basically just told her that I was calling to tell her something that I knew I'd have a hard time saying next Monday, but I wanted her to know. I told her I want to quit therapy because it's just making me feel worse, not better.. and that I just cant connect with the inner child thing, even though I'm trying, it's just not for me. I said that therapy isnt supposed to make me feel this way. At the end, I said that she could call me back if she wanted, but she doesnt have to. Secretly of course, I hope she does. But I'd bet that she wont, since I said it was up to her.
I hope that was the right thing to do.
Posted by annierose on May 9, 2006, at 16:25:02
In reply to I left her a message, posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 15:20:04
Wishingstar -
How you feel is never the wrong thing. I hope she does call you back. If I was your T, I certainly would. I'm glad you told her how you feel. That's all they ask of us, that we share our feelings, all of them.
If she calls you back, try to bring us your other point. That you have noticed that lately she is doing more and more of the talking. I think that is important too.
Good Luck and I have my fingers (and toes) crossed for you. Let me know if she calls and how that goes.
Posted by Poet on May 10, 2006, at 9:47:51
In reply to I left her a message, posted by wishingstar on May 9, 2006, at 15:20:04
Hi wishingstar,
I think your T owes you a call. I hope she listens to what you said and wants to discuss it with you. Not just talk without letting you have your say.
Inner child work is not right for everybody and she needs to know how unhappy it's making you.
Keep us posted.
Poet
Posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 18:12:20
In reply to T wont stop talking!, posted by wishingstar on May 8, 2006, at 22:51:40
she didnt call.
It's only 7pm here (i left the message around 4 yesterday) so I guess it's still possible.. but I'm pretty sure that she would have by now, if she was going to.
I cant even tell you all how bad I'm hurting. I cant stop crying. I've probably cried more in the last 2-3 days than in the last year (I'm not a crier, at all). Even writing this is brining the tears up again. It hit me an hour or so ago that shes PAID to talk to me. That doesnt mean she cares. Of course it'll feel like she does.. she listens, responds, etc.. but listening does not equal caring, especially when shes paid. This is her job. Just like someone works at a bank or a store or a restaurant. I forget that this isnt a real relationship. It's just a service I've purchased and that's as far as it goes.
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm carrying around a sign that says "please dont call me, no matter what". I called my old therapist on Thurs to ask her about seeing her over the summer (as I'll be out of town) and we missed each other when she called back on Friday. She told me to leave a message with when I was available on Monday and she'd call me back. She said she'd be happy to see me and was happy to hear from me and all that. Well, here it is Wed night.. she never called either. What's wrong with me? What's wrong with me that I put this kind of emotional energy into this, when.. I dont know. It's not what I like to think it is, I guess.
I guess it's mostly my fault that my current T never called back.. In the message, I did say that she didnt have to (I think I even said it twice). I guess I was hoping she would anyway.. that she'd know how badly I was hurting (because I said I was) and care enough to call. I know.. a lesson in asking for what I need I guess. But just telling her I was unhappy with her was incredibly big for me (and she knows that, I'm sure). Oh well.. no excuses I guess.
I really dont know what to do. I cant think of anything that would help me stop crying and stop feeling so bad right now.. even some of the self destructive things I sometimes use dont in the past dont sound very appealing (which is a good thing, I know.. but it leaves me feeling even more lost). I told a friend all about this last night and he listened, but he doesnt understand where I'm coming from. I havent written any of this down yet, except here, but I'm going to journal some tonight. I went to the bookstore to try to take my mind off things, but no luck really.
I just dont understand. I'm sorry for rambling.. I guess I just need to get it out. I want to call and leave her another message, but I wouldnt even know what to say. Maybe I'm wrong and she'll call later tonight. Doubt it. I'm sorry guys.
Posted by bent on May 10, 2006, at 19:56:08
In reply to she didnt call.. im falling apart, posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 18:12:20
Please do call her back! Call her and ask her to call you back. Tell her you NEED her to call you back. Its ok to need her. It really is.
When I do this to my T, she says its my way of testing her. And I get hurt and angry when she doesnt call me back, but in the back of my mind I know that she wont call unless I ask her to. But I am learning (slowly) that this test I put her through isnt the way to find out if she cares. Please call her. Ask her to call you.
Posted by annierose on May 10, 2006, at 20:04:45
In reply to Re: she didnt call.. im falling apart » wishingstar, posted by bent on May 10, 2006, at 19:56:08
I agree with Bent. Every T has a different policy on this, but I would bet, most want you to specifically ask, "please call me back" and they will.
I'm guessing the T that said she would call on Monday just plain forgot. Call her back too.
It doesn't make it easier, it is painful. I'm sorry you are hurting. Please call both back.
Posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:07:41
In reply to Re: she didnt call.. im falling apart » wishingstar, posted by bent on May 10, 2006, at 19:56:08
I wouldnt even know what to say to her now if she did call... I have nothing to say. I'm so hurt and so angry, I just wouldnt have anything to say.
Because of the anger piece, a big part of me doesnt want to talk to her. At all really. All I've been asking her for over the past month or so has been to listen to me.. not to fix anything, nothing.. just listen and be there with me.. and I just dont feel like she is. I'm sure I play a role in that too, but still. I'm really angry. Therapy is supposed to be about me and what I need and what I believe, not what she believes or wants me to believe. A big part of me is afraid then when I do finally talk to her again, she's just going to start talking about transfernce again.. and I just cant take that. I may be hypersensitive to these things because of my past, but this is about HER right now. Not my mother or anyone else.
I'm considering calling tomorrow and cancelling my session on Monday. I told her it'd be my last in the message, so I guess I'd ask to rescheudle for the week after and have that be the last, if I stick with that plan. I just dont think therapy is worth the emotional disaster its creating.
Back a year or so ago when I was seeing her the first time, she told me I could call her if I needed to.. even gave me her home number once when I was feeling suicidal. Now, she hasnt ever even mentioned that I can call, and if I mention feeling suicidal (which I do often), I feel like it's pretty much ignored. I just want to scream. I'm trying SO hard to be real with her and she's not making it easy. I think I need her, but I need her for something she cant/isnt willing to give me.
I guess I am overreacting. I know I am. I'm building it up in my mind, and yeah.. I guess that's related to my family and my past. But it doesnt make it hurt any less.
Posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:11:22
In reply to Re: she didnt call.. im falling apart, posted by annierose on May 10, 2006, at 20:04:45
I'm not so hurt about the old T who was supposed to call monday.. a little maybe, but I dont think I'd care so much if it wasnt for what's going on with my current T right now. It's just the icing on the cake, as they say.
She probably would call back if I specifically asked her to. But I dont feel like I have anything to say to her anymore. I would have no idea what to say if she called me right now. I just wrote more on that in the reply to Bent.. but I'm angry on top of the hurt, and I just have nothing to say. I just want to be done with this. I guess I want her to care in a way that she doesnt or cant. It's a professional relationship. I have to keep that in my head I guess.
Posted by happyflower on May 10, 2006, at 20:13:04
In reply to Re: she didnt call.. im falling apart » bent, posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:07:41
I agree with the others, call her back and tell her you need to talk to her even if it is to reconnect with her. It is okay to need your T and please don't cancel with her, because of this. (((((((wishing star))))))
Posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:37:45
In reply to T wont stop talking!, posted by wishingstar on May 8, 2006, at 22:51:40
You guys are the best..
I called her again. My old T (the one who I wasnt so upset about) finally did call me back just a few minutes ago.. and she was so sweet and so genuine. It made me feel really good. And I was thinking about everything you all have said.. so I took the moment of feeling proactive and went with it. I called her and just rambled on her machine.. I said I want her to call me, and I dont know what I'll say when she does, but I'm just falling apart, and I'm really trying to help myself and I'm fighting the urge to quit.. I dont know. I hope it was the right decision. I wish shed call me back NOW but it's almost 10pm, so I'm sure it wont be until tomorrow. I really dont know what I'll say. Any suggestions?! (kidding.. mostly).
But wow, talking to the old T, even for 5 min, really made me miss her. She's definitely the best therapist I've ever had.
Posted by happyflower on May 10, 2006, at 20:53:10
In reply to I called again, posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:37:45
I am proud of you star! yeah! :-) I am glad your old T called you back, and that you can see her again.
But I am really glad you called your current T back and asked her to call you. I am sure she will know what to say. My T always does, and on phone calls (which he keeps very short) , he controls the conversation most of the time. So maybe you won't have to say anything, in fact I think you already did in your message. I am sure she can tell you are frusterated and wanting to quit. If she is a good T , she will know what to say to help you feel better. Good for you for reaching out!
Now it is late, she probably is in bed sleeping , so that is what you should do too! Get some sleep, get up in the morning, get dressed and try to keep busy and not just wait by the phone. If you are at home all day, try cleaning or something, you can accomplish 2 things, to get your mind off when she is going to call, and have a nice clean house. Good luck and I hope you have a nice conversation ! Sweet dreams!
Posted by B2chica on May 11, 2006, at 10:26:13
In reply to I called again, posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:37:45
WISHINGSTAR!!!!!
that's Wonderful! i'm SO glad you called them back...BOTH of them!
good for you. it's a Big step that you should be very proud of.
and i'm glad just hearing the voice of your old T made you feel better.b2c.
Posted by madeline on May 11, 2006, at 14:08:28
In reply to I called again, posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:37:45
Posted by annierose on May 11, 2006, at 19:49:34
In reply to I called again, posted by wishingstar on May 10, 2006, at 20:37:45
Posted by wishingstar on May 11, 2006, at 20:50:18
In reply to Any word? (nm) » wishingstar, posted by madeline on May 11, 2006, at 14:08:28
Well... yes and no.
She called at 10:30 this morning while I was in the shower (what timing). She left a message and said she'd try back later in the morning or early afternoon. (She never answers her own phone, so I have to wait for her to call me).
Morning and afternoon passed. I had rehearsal (I'm in a ballet soon) tonight and had to leave about 4:30.. didnt mention that on the message cause I didnt think it'd be a problem. She said she'd call early. Well as I was leaving, I left a message and said I was leaving and wouldnt be back until late, so I guess we wouldnt get to talk.. and to just forget about it because we'd talk Monday, and it wasnt that important.
Around 8, she called and apologized for "missing me" (no, she didnt miss me.. she never called back!) She said she wanted to call me tomorrow, and could call between 8-8:30am or 1-1:30pm. That's it. I'm supposed to leave a message tonight with which time is better. Apparently shes going to some workshop. Well I'm leaving home early tomorrow so 1-1:30 is bad, and 8am.. I will have just woken up and wont really be feeling anything or making much sense at that point. Really not worth it. I dont want to finally get her on the phone and then act like everything is fine, because it's really not. I'm thinking I might just tell her I'll be out of town and I'll just talk to her Monday. I just dont care anymore.
I'm really mad and really hurt. I want to say.. dont you know how hard it was for me to ask you for help? You didnt have 1 free second today after 10:30? I was sick to my stomach all day with nerves. How am I supposed to trust her, especially now? I know I'm probably overreacting, but I cant help it. I'm just done. I feel like she doesnt like me lately, and I just dont know why. I cant think of one thing I could have possibly done. I did wear a shirt that said "gay? fine by me" to her office a few weeks ago (it was a university campaign to show support for homosexuality) and she seemed very off that day.. I wonder if she strongly disagreed with my views or something? I cant imagine that would do this though. I've had other Ts do this in the past too (not call me back for days when it was important).. what's the deal? I'm trying so dang hard, and it's definitely not being reinforced. It hurts. A lot. I feel completely abandoned and like my trust has been betrayed. I need her to be there for me so badly.. but I dont know how to let her. I'm still thinking very strongly about quitting. I just dont know.
Thanks everyone for all your support.. I dont know where I'd be without you all to tell this to.
Posted by madeline on May 11, 2006, at 21:14:04
In reply to Re: Any word? » madeline, posted by wishingstar on May 11, 2006, at 20:50:18
WOW! I'm really sorry. But it does sound as though she is trying to get in touch with you.
Maybe you should take the 8:00 am call? I don't know. One thing I would do for sure is to let her know how you feel, whether it is on monday or in the morning.
She is doing something that you don't like and it is important that she knows it. It is important for you to tell her.
Even if therapy with her doesn't work out, you still need to let her know how you feel. If she has any training at all, she will listen and work with you to try to make therapy workable for YOU.
I'll be thinking about you.
Good luck.
Posted by wishingstar on May 11, 2006, at 22:37:29
In reply to Re: Any word? » wishingstar, posted by madeline on May 11, 2006, at 21:14:04
Thanks. I just left her a message about tomorrow. I said she can try calling at 8 if she wants, if itll make her feel better.. but I dont really have anything to say, so it's up to her. So we'll see what happens. 90% of me hopes she doesnt call. The message came off sounding really passive-aggressive and not at all how I wanted it to.. but oh well. I'll let you know what happens, if anything.
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