![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wishingstar on July 23, 2006, at 18:23:19
Wow, sorry this got so long.
I saw Anne (regular T from home) Thursday evening. I drove 2 hours to get there after work and I was pretty brain fried, but I made it. I was hoping that I'd leave with some sense of relief or of being cared about and heard... but I didnt.
I havent posted anything about it until now because I just cant get my thoughts together on it. I'm not even sure how I feel. Hurt, crushed, hopeless, frustrated, angry, guilty, doubting myself... pretty much everything.
I asked her if everything I've done with her has been manipulative, and she said she doesnt like that word. We agreed that my response to her not calling back during my crisis a few months ago was an overreaction (it was), and she said that signals to her that it's a sensitive area that needs to be worked on. Okay, not exactly what I wanted to hear (I still never got an apology, and that's what I want), but I'll take it.
Regarding everything else.. she didnt really give me any straight answers. I felt as if she was dancing around my questions but without meaning to maybe. When I kept asking the same questions, she got frustrated (first time I could ever hear it in her voice). In the past I've made many comments to her that I thought would be helpful when I became aware of how I operate.. for instance, I've told her that generally when I get really quiet, I'm censoring and having a hard time saying what I need to say. Another example was when I told her how I've taken all the emotional content out of certain words (like "upset") and that it'll help me a lot if she can sometimes use words other than the ones I used. I really just thought I was being helpful, or at least neutral - I didnt know me telling her those things was bad. But apparently she feels like asking her to note those silences or use certain words or anything else is shifting the responsibility of the work off of me and onto her. That wasnt my intent at all! I constantly talk about how I know things are my responsibility.. but one of the biggest issues I have is with not being able to express how I really feel. It's not as easy as "just do it" for me. I just need someone to hold my hand, or maybe just one finger, so I can feel a little safer in taking that step. Just a "I noticed you're silent.. what's going on?" would help so, so much. I thought I was being proactive and helpful. Wrong again.
I did ask her about her policy for phone calls. She said that it's best that I not call right now since I'm seeing Laurie for the summer. I completely understand that, although I wish she'd told me that last time I called rather than saying "okay, talk to you next time you need to call". But okay. She said when I am her client regularly, calling once in awhile is okay, and she always trys to return calls within 24 hours, although it doesnt always happen. Understandable.. she has a real life, but why has the 24 hour return call NEVER happened for me (except when I call to reschedule, when she usually calls back within an hour or so)? What's wrong with me? It seems like she really just doesnt want to talk to/deal with me. I didnt push it any further because the session was almost over.
I told her how Laurie often says things like "that sounds really painful" etc.. and how that helps me a lot. Anne seemed surprised (and slightly defensive) and said that she does say those things. But she DOESNT. Occasionally, sure... but not often. I dont doubt that she says that stuff to others... does she really dislike me this much? I dont get it. That would do so much to help me feel heard.
At the end of the session, she said something like "see you in a few weeks possibly.. but if you dont like my style then you should consider getting a new T" (paraphrase of course). I'll be back in town in 3-4 weeks and the plan all along was that I'd come back. I can completely respect her suggesting I go somewhere else if she feels like she cant help or cant work with me, but throwing it in the end there was hurtful. I already knew she was frustrated with me, and I've definitely been feeling unheard and uncared for by her, so even though I'm sure she said it trying to be helpful and ethical, it hurt. It was just another "by the way, I dont really care about you" in my head... "come back if you want, or dont, it doesnt matter either way".
In a way, it seems very obvious to me that it's time for a new T. I looked a little online and am considering the options there. However, that sounds impossibly hard (starting over) and I'm not sure if I'd even find a new T right away. However, part of me isnt sure. Part of me wonders if this "issue" is really my issue and something that needs to be worked through as part of my therapy, not run away from. How do you know when something is your issue, and when something truly just isnt right? I never used to doubt myself like this, but I feel like my world is completely upside down right now. I am going to talk to Laurie about it on Tues, but shes the one who thinks that all my behavior with Anne has been manipulative, so I'm not sure I can get a very good objective opinion there. I also wonder if I'm hurting myself by trying to get Anne to care or to pay attention through any means possible when she just isnt going to do so... exactly like my family. My parents never cared or were interested, no matter how I acted (perfect child, bad kid, etc). Could I be repeating that? Is she just like my family and wont like me/care regardless of what I do?
Sorry this was so long. I know you all have given me your opinions on this several times already so it's okay if you dont reply. I just thought I'd let you know what happened and vent a little. It helps to not feel so alone.
Posted by annierose on July 23, 2006, at 18:49:54
In reply to saw Anne on Thurs... long, posted by wishingstar on July 23, 2006, at 18:23:19
I think you can see why it's difficult (to say the least) to see two different T's at the same time. It's not fair to you or to them. In an ideal world (and it's not) as long as you felt comfortable and it was the "right fit" you would work out your issues with just one of these Ts.
It does sound like she was defensive, but maybe she was leaving the door open to you to find a new T if you didn't feel she was the "right fit". I thought things were going well with this T until leaving for "home" for the summer. I think being around your parents has triggered a flood of emotions and everything is getting stirred up right now. Anne isn't able to help you while you are away.
When you get back to your other home, I would try to work with Anne again and see how you feel then. It's just too hard with two therapists in the picture.
Posted by wishingstar on July 23, 2006, at 19:02:59
In reply to Re: saw Anne on Thurs... long, posted by annierose on July 23, 2006, at 18:49:54
Things werent great with Anne before I left the area either. Laurie is very good (aside from some issues, but no Ts are perfect) and I was afraid she'd become a comparison point that would make me feel worse about Anne, and I do think that has happened. However, I'm not sure if that's a bad thing. The frustration/hurt had been building for a long time.
I know Anne isnt able to help me right now. I dont expect her to be my therapist while I'm seeing Laurie and am out of town. The only reason I went to see her this past week was to talk about an issue between her and I and to clarify what our relationship (or lack thereof) is right now. If no contact is best (and she suggested), I am okay with that and truly do understand it. That wasnt really the hurtful part I guess.
I may go back to Anne once I'm back in town, but I'm not sure it's worth any more frustration. This really has been an issue for awhile. I cant keep hoping to turn her into what I want her to be. I just dont know.
Posted by canadagirl on July 23, 2006, at 19:24:01
In reply to saw Anne on Thurs... long, posted by wishingstar on July 23, 2006, at 18:23:19
Ooooh that would make me so frustrated too. If I were you, I'd find someone else. It sounds like (reading between the lines) that maybe she does want you to find someone else. She probably wouldn't come out and really say it. I find that everyone is human and if sometimes the fit isn't right after awhile, it's just more difficult to keep going pushing ourselves when someone isn't being particularly helpful. I'd continue your search and interview a few T's. You've obviously made a lot of progress, think of it as continuing your journey with a new guide.
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2006, at 2:05:44
In reply to saw Anne on Thurs... long, posted by wishingstar on July 23, 2006, at 18:23:19
If Anne isn't right for you and has never been, then stopping now and then to assess that and decide what to do in the future is a good idea. If you need something different, you need something different.
But I wouldn't let what happened today decide. My therapist would have reacted along the same lines. He would have been not too happy about my seeing two therapists, and never happy about any comparisons - unless perhaps they were in his favor. And even then he would have dismissed them a bit and refused to judge.
And he gets a bit defensive when I tell him things to do differently. If I tell him there's something I'd rather he didn't do, since I don't find it helpful, he might think about it and decide I'm right. But if I tell him I'd rather he did that he never does, because I would find it useful, he'd fold his arms and tell me he is who he is, and this is how he does therapy. Don't ask me the difference. I've never figured it out. But he's flexible on the one, and intractable on the other.
I wasn't there, and don't know the tones of voice or facial or body cues. But it doesn't sound all that awful to me - not this one session. It just sounds like she's a bit annoyed about the two therapist thing, and the conflicts it can and almost invariably does bring. I'd be very happy that she doesn't like the word manipulative, since I don't much care for it either.
Posted by wishingstar on July 24, 2006, at 15:52:30
In reply to Re: saw Anne on Thurs... long » wishingstar, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2006, at 2:05:44
It may not have been awful, but it FELT awful. My seeing two therapists was a decision I made with Anne and she never expressed any problem with it. If she does have a problem, I dont think it's fair for her to take that out on me now when she had plenty of chances to say it was a bad idea (and I likely would have listened and not done it had she said that).
I see your point about asking not to do certain things, as opposed to doing certain things he/she doesnt normally do though. I will have to think about that. Thanks for the thoughts.
Posted by wishingstar on July 24, 2006, at 15:54:34
In reply to Re: saw Anne on Thurs... long » wishingstar, posted by canadagirl on July 23, 2006, at 19:24:01
Thanks canadagirl.. whether shes right or I'm right, or she's good or bad, I guess it just hurts. I know therapy isnt fun, but I shouldnt be upset ABOUT therapy more often than I'm upset about what brought me to therapy, at least in my opinion. I guess I just needed some reassurance that it's okay for me to be frustrated or hurt here. Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2006, at 15:59:44
In reply to Re: saw Anne on Thurs... long » Dinah, posted by wishingstar on July 24, 2006, at 15:52:30
Well, it's difficult to get a full picture if you aren't there. Her body language or tone might have been cold.
You deserve a therapist who suits you. If Anne doesn't, you should look for another. I've certainly decided plenty of mental health practitioners weren't right for me. It's awfully discouraging, but it can lead (from what I've heard anyway) to finding the right one.
Posted by wishingstar on July 24, 2006, at 18:39:22
In reply to Re: saw Anne on Thurs... long, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2006, at 15:59:44
I wouldnt say her tone was particularly cold, but it has never been particularly warm either. I guess I'm a person who needs a few of those "warm" moments in my head to help me make it though the moments that arent so easy. I'm not suggesting she's a bad therapist at all - in fact, I think she's very good at what she does do - it just, maybe, isnt right for me.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.