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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pegasus on June 14, 2011, at 10:12:07
I recently got embroiled in a debate about whether it should be required in psych and counseling grad programs that students experience their own therapy. Apparently, there is no clear evidence that having been a client makes a T more effective. Mind you, there is also no clear evidence that it *doesn't* make Ts more effective, either. It's just that the research is very sketchy, and inconclusive at this point. I expect that's because it's a very tricky thing to study, with lots of variables that are hard to control.
The thing that surprises me is that a bunch of folks are saying that, because there isn't any conclusive evidence that having been a client makes you a more effective T, this requirement should be dropped from the programs that have it. The argument is that, since it might not contribute to making you a more effective T, it's burdensome on the students to insist on that requirement.
Complicating the debate, IMHO, is the fact that many programs don't have such a requirement. So, there are many Ts out there who have never undergone their own psychotherapy of any sort. And people tend to think that their own experience is best. So, the Ts who have never been clients are pretty vocal about how that that experience isn't necessary. And even that maybe people who have had a therapy could be less qualified to be Ts (I guess because they might be mentally ill). And the Ts who have had therapy are vocal about how that experience has been really helpful to them as Ts.
What do you guys, as clients, think? If you knew that your T had never experienced any type of therapy as a client, would that bother you, or give you more confidence in them (because they never needed therapy), or what?
My bias is that I wouldn't want to work with a T who had never been a client. I would expect that they would not be sufficiently sensitive to how vulnerable I feel.
- p
Posted by Dinah on June 14, 2011, at 14:23:33
In reply to Ts doing their own therapy, posted by pegasus on June 14, 2011, at 10:12:07
I'm not sure I'd want to see a therapist who had never had therapy. Everyone has problems. Well, at any rate, I'm not sure I'd want someone who thought they never had problems or had never needed an objective observer. Or never engaged in the sort of introspection that comes from therapy.
Those who are going to be mucking about in the psyches of others ought to have a pretty good understanding of their own. Know their own vulnerabilities.
And to be honest, I'd wonder why people who are entering the field think that you have to be really screwed up to seek therapy. It implies a certain amount of superiority over their prospective clients.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on June 14, 2011, at 16:49:26
In reply to Ts doing their own therapy, posted by pegasus on June 14, 2011, at 10:12:07
Hell yes I'd want a t who has been in therapy.
Mine has, and I am sure it's been an important part of being a therapist for him. Flawed comparisons aside, I wouldn't want a driving instructor who has never driven, a teacher who has never been a student, a lifeguard who never learned to swim, a member of the clergy who never grappled with questions of existence and meaning etc. I could go on. ;-)
Therapy, is after all, an art and a science. There is no way to learn an art but by doing
Honestly, it concerns me, the idea that therapy is for "other people", especially from people who would espouse it's usefulness.
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 14, 2011, at 19:20:07
In reply to Ts doing their own therapy, posted by pegasus on June 14, 2011, at 10:12:07
Both my DBT therapist and p-doc (also therapist) have had therapy, but I didn't know that when I started seeing them and don't think it was a requirement of their training. I trusted them because they were good, understood me, treated me with compassion and kindness, were experienced and confident in their technique, we established good rapport quickly, etc. Whether or not they had been in therapy didn't matter at all to me.
Posted by Daisym on June 15, 2011, at 1:10:56
In reply to Re: Ts doing their own therapy, posted by emmanuel98 on June 14, 2011, at 19:20:07
There is a book called "The Pyschotherapist's Own Psychotherapy". It isn't hugely entertaining but it is sort of interesting to read how therapists view their own therapy.
I'm conflicted because I truly think it might depend on the type of therapy you plan to practice. CBT, seems to me, to not need the experience of therapy, since transference is ignored essentially. I'm not saying it isn't helpful but to require it, given the expense and time, might be limiting.
Depth therapy absolutely needs someone who has felt the process, with all it entails, in order to not pathologize the stages of regression, need and defensiveness that often come up. It is less about their flaws and more about their ability to understand the process emotions, not just the presenting problems.
I would imagine that after doing therapy for awhile, therapists might need their own. Hearing so many problems and carrying lots of worry will need somewhere to go. Which is different than supervision, I think.
Good question for reflection.
Posted by pegasus on June 16, 2011, at 11:44:26
In reply to Re: Ts doing their own therapy, posted by Dinah on June 14, 2011, at 14:23:33
I couldn't agree with you more. Fortunately, not everyone in the debate thinks that people who seek therapy must be screwed up. But that argument has been raised a couple of times. Fortunately, several others in the debate questioned that line of logic right away. There seems to be a general sense in the community that therapy for personal growth is completely valid, and valuable. Thank goodness.
But among those folks, there are some who say that the goal of understanding your own psyche can be addressed in ways other than therapy. I'm thinking those are probably not pychodynamically oriented folks, or anyone who provides long-term therapy.
- P
Posted by pegasus on June 16, 2011, at 11:47:36
In reply to Re: Ts doing their own therapy, posted by sleepygirl2 on June 14, 2011, at 16:49:26
Yeah, I don't get that either. How could someone who obviously believes in therapy say that it doesn't necessarily benefit every therapist to undergo some small amount of therapy?
I guess the argument is that it can be a pretty large financial burden for grad students, so we need to be really sure that it's necessary before we require it. But, hey, tuition is a pretty large financial burden for grad students, too. And everyone seems to agree that attending grad school is a reasonable requirement.
- P
Posted by pegasus on June 16, 2011, at 11:53:00
In reply to Re: Ts doing their own therapy, posted by emmanuel98 on June 14, 2011, at 19:20:07
That's a good point. I bet there are lots of folks out there who are good therapists without having been in therapy. And if they're are good enough, why would a client care one way or another?
This makes me ponder where the line should be drawn. I figure there are probably some folks who are so naturally good at this that they wouldn't even need to go to school to be a good therapist. But most states don't allow people without appropriate degrees to practice therapy. And we all know that there are plenty of people who have degrees and licenses and etc. who are not good therapists.
So, how are we to decide what the minimum requirements should be? The research doesn't give us a lot of information about what types of experiences make therapists better.
- p
Posted by pegasus on June 16, 2011, at 11:55:52
In reply to Re: Ts doing their own therapy, posted by Daisym on June 15, 2011, at 1:10:56
This is where the debate I was in ended up as well. When we say "therapy" we could be talking about so many different things. Both in terms of what the T is doing, and what the client is doing. So, how do you make requirements for all Ts, no matter what type of therapy they provide, and what type of clients they see?
And, yes, I can't imagine being a T and not having somewhere confidential to sort through my own experiences with clients, and what that brings up for me.
Good thoughts from everyone here!
- p
Posted by 10derheart on June 17, 2011, at 16:50:11
In reply to Ts doing their own therapy, posted by pegasus on June 14, 2011, at 10:12:07
So strange....until I read your post, peg, I never realized I never actually came out and asked either one of my past beloved T's this question. Over 7-8 years combined, I never got around to asking! Weird. I remember thinking of asking, but never did. Probably afraid it was an inappropriate question or something. And I don't even have a guess, in either case.
Based on what I know now, though, I surely hope they both did, and at least one desperately needs his own therapy NOW. Of course, I am biased. But that's what I think.
This is the end of the thread.
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