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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 26, 2021, at 14:12:58
Hey guys,
I think I have a real issue with this emotion. What do you think about my question?
Posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2021, at 0:21:21
In reply to Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 26, 2021, at 14:12:58
I am not sure that it does.
I am also not sure what does heal hatred.
Maybe it depends why you hate.
I have discovered hatred.
It is true that I could try and empathise with them more. With their point of view. Their motivations. I could engage in rationalising things from their point of view...
That is what I would have done when I was younger.
But now I see that they cry crocodile tears and they manipulate by inducing guilt and shame and so on in their... Victims?
I am not a victim. In the people try try and keep under their thumbs.
So I try and limit my empathising. To the point where I say that I know they have their reasons. Largely it is an expression of their pathology. Because they did not get the help they needed. The issue / problem is that expressing their pathology will not get them the help they need. Also, expressing their pathology harms a lot of others. And actively prevents things developing to the point where they could actually get the help they need.
So...
I think there is a lot of sense in how it is... Pointless? Fruitless? Not a good thing... To forgive someone who is likely to do the same thing again / reoffend.
It is like... 'Sorry' doesn't mean anything when it isn't backed up with a plausible / credible plan so the situation doesn't happen again. 'I'm sorry you feel that way' is synonymous with 'tough bikkies, get used to feeling that way because I'm going to do that thing I did all over again'.
So staying angry at people likely to reoffend... Seems sensible. Wise.
I mean... What are the alternatives? Despair that they are going to do the same thing again? Hopelessness?
Anger is more likely to motivate some kind of action. Which seems to be what is needed.
What kind of action would be helpful?
They say that justice is costly. That's why nobody prosecutes. Because it is costly to prosecute. But what is the cost of failing to prosecute? Game over. I don't mean 'they win' game over. I mean annihilation game over. No more playing of games full stop.
Life is nasty bruitish and short.
And eventually they fall ill.
And the vultures (the next generation of them) come swarming for their prey.
This is the world that they made.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 1, 2021, at 4:38:30
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by alexandra_k on March 28, 2021, at 0:21:21
Right, you shouldn't use Jesus's words to avoid having boundaries. Or should you? Not sure what he meant by saying that thing with the other cheek. I'm sure he didn't want people to be victimized over and over again, right?
Posted by alexandra_k on April 1, 2021, at 5:28:24
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by Lamdage22 on April 1, 2021, at 4:38:30
> Right, you shouldn't use Jesus's words to avoid having boundaries. Or should you? Not sure what he meant by saying that thing with the other cheek. I'm sure he didn't want people to be victimized over and over again, right?
I don't know. By all accounts he allowed them to hang him on the cross. He chose to die so that he might rise again.
He chose to die so that... We didn't have to. For our sins.
So maybe that is something biblical, there, in not turning the other cheek.
I hear you on not using Jesus's words to avoid having boundaries. God helps those who help themselves. Amen.
I'm not really religious... But words of wisdom wherever they come from...
My grandfathers point was about there being something fishy in the leaders here (in this country) wanting to ship partiuclar men off over there (half way around the other side of the planet likely never to be seen of again).
Which is a different scenario from taking up arms, even, to protect your borders. Defending your home.
I honestly don't know his thoughts on if the Nazi's were invading our lands. But I know mine. And I know... I don't quite remember how it goes:
First they came for the Jews. And I did nothing. Because I was not Jewish. And then they came for the Blacks. And I did nothing. Because I was not black. And then they came for the people with disability. And I did nothing because I did not have disability. And then they came for me. And there was nobody to stand up for me, because there was nobody left.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 1, 2021, at 5:33:15
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by alexandra_k on April 1, 2021, at 5:28:24
There is some stuff on whether expressing or venting anger helps or whether it rekindles it or keeps it alive or keeps it going.
I'm not sure. Sometimes physical activity like punching or kicking or whatever can take some of the intensity out of the emotion. Which can feel healing. But othertimes it can really set it into a resolve. Sort of solidify or even magnify it or keep it going or keep it alive.
I think about Dexter... How he was trained to murder the murderers. There was a novel. I don't remember what it was called. Yes, I do. A Philosophical Investigation. It was again the trope of the murderer going after the murderers and the rapists and so on who were not punished by law.
I don't know if doling out that kind of vengance would be healing or whether it would keep the negative emotions alive. Don't know.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 9, 2021, at 2:48:43
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by alexandra_k on April 1, 2021, at 5:33:15
Yeah it is hard to heal hatred with hatred. Which doesn't mean you should let people walk all over you, either. It is difficult
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2021, at 18:29:59
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by Lamdage22 on April 9, 2021, at 2:48:43
it is very very difficult.
i find boundaries really hard.
people in New Zealand are known to be boundary pushers, too, largely because so many of us were born into families that didn't have clear boundaries, either. Lack of quality role models.
i find it hard that people manipulate with emotions. people try and force others to comply with their will by tugging on heart strings, sure, being cute and leading and so on. but also they aren't afraid to call in induction of shame and guilt and fear...
some people have this ability to numb themselves or split or dissociate their emotions from their frontal lobes.
i suppose they think they are more advanced that they have higher cognitive control over their emotions. so they can use emotions to communicate whatever message their frontal loes want to be uptaken by others instead of using emotions to express how things are (genuinely) with them.
i suppose people think it's good to have options. i suppose that it true. choose to express or choose not to express.
but there's something inauthentic. calculating...
people who use emotions to control others often lack... ethical sensibility. not just with how they treat people but how they treat animals, too. often you can also see it in their attitude to nature as well. is there anything wrong with wonton destruction of a planet when nobody knows it exists and nobody will come to know? a sort of a... do you think that anything has value other than yourself (and by association with yourself everything else derives whatever value it has in virtue of you you you you you)?
to identify those people. or people operating on those premises.
i suppose it's possible for people to flippity flip or flop in their lives...
i don't know.
i think there is somethign about character traits.
i don't know.
Posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2021, at 18:35:08
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2021, at 18:29:59
sorry, that likely has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
people get caught on cycles of hatred sometimes, yes.
a situation whereby life is nasty bruitish and short and you take what you can for as long as you can and then your time is up game over.
a little like how some herd animals are. the young males are driven off away from the herd. they muster strength and grow. they return to take down the leader. the strongest wins. some people are invested in that. the young males are driven away. or (even better) peacefully coaxed away with carrots of earning more money overseas or going off to foreign lands to return home with riches and glory...
then they come back... and plot to overthrow the status quo.
like deer.
or lions.
or whatever.
maybe to band together like a gang of monkeys.
oink oink.
Posted by Lamdage22 on November 17, 2021, at 2:36:55
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by alexandra_k on April 9, 2021, at 18:35:08
It has to do with what I am talking about. My parents have been abusing me probably from the get go and they are abusive to this day as we speak. Very abusive. In a way that is hard to prove. They seldomly abuse in black and white.
Posted by Lamdage22 on November 17, 2021, at 2:37:44
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by Lamdage22 on November 17, 2021, at 2:36:55
They are seriously bad people.
Posted by sigismund on November 17, 2021, at 18:17:08
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by Lamdage22 on November 17, 2021, at 2:37:44
Passive agressive?
Posted by Lamdage22 on November 17, 2021, at 19:10:44
In reply to Re: Hating the people that spread hateredheals hatred?, posted by sigismund on November 17, 2021, at 18:17:08
Sometimes but more so covert aggressive.
This is the end of the thread.
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