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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bob Jones on October 3, 2005, at 6:33:25
I have been engaged to a woman for over 1 year. Each of us has a psychiatric history. Ever since, my fiance's depressive symptoms have deepened. Yet at the same time she insists on having a child with me (she's 43 years old and we've begun to do artificial insemination. Of course, "insist" is the wrong word. It takes two to tango). Now, she refuses to marry me unless and untill she becomes pregnant. Furthermore, she's told me that if and when she becomes pregnant she will return to Europe, to her family, and give birth there. She will also raise the child with her family in Europe. Additionally, she refuses to share any of our expenses. I pay the rent; I pay for the car; I pay for the groceries; etc. I've convinced her to finally start seeing a clinical psychologist and she'll be seeing a psychiatrist soon for medication. But I don't know how much longer I can put with this. She sometimes refuses to respond to me when I speak with with her. She sometimes is oblivious of me. I turn into into an object, at times, I'm with her.
Has anyone experience anything similar to what I'm experiencing? Comments will be appreciated.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 4, 2005, at 3:29:30
In reply to Psychiatric Disorder, marriage, and children, posted by Bob Jones on October 3, 2005, at 6:33:25
Uh... What are you getting out of the relationship? I mean... Sounds to me like she has it all mapped out... And you tow the line or hit the road... But what is up with the 'get me pregnant or you can't marry me' thing?
I mean really...
?
Posted by crazy teresa on October 4, 2005, at 20:04:48
In reply to Psychiatric Disorder, marriage, and children, posted by Bob Jones on October 3, 2005, at 6:33:25
And you're willing to bring a child into this "relationship"?
No matter what your feelings for this woman are, it doesn't sound as if she has any regard for yours.
And I don't believe for one second she'll marry you if she becomes pregnant. She's blackmailing you emotionally. You and your sperm better run for your lives!
Sorry, Bob Jones.
Posted by sleepygirl on October 4, 2005, at 22:27:26
In reply to Psychiatric Disorder, marriage, and children, posted by Bob Jones on October 3, 2005, at 6:33:25
Yikes Bob,
Only one question:
When are you really going to start resenting this? It might just be a matter of time. Being alone when with someone can be a terrible thing. Please be careful- look before you leap :-(
all the best,
sleepygirl
Posted by sunny10 on October 5, 2005, at 11:39:58
In reply to Re: Psychiatric Disorder, marriage, and children » Bob Jones, posted by sleepygirl on October 4, 2005, at 22:27:26
there is a chance that she may be this way because she needs to be medicated for mood and/or personality disorder.
I say let her get the help she needs from the professionals before even thinking about being a sperm donor...
See if she becomes a person who shows some appreciation for your feelings before agreeing to spend the rest of your life with her.
She doesn't sound very stable/rational to me right now based on wht you've told us.
Good luck!
Posted by crazy teresa on October 5, 2005, at 12:06:05
In reply to Re: Psychiatric Disorder, marriage, and children » Bob Jones, posted by sleepygirl on October 4, 2005, at 22:27:26
answers. We're giving you our honest opinions based on what you've shared. It may feel as if we've attacked you and your relationship, but honestly, we're giving you the truth as we see it.
We think you deserve more than a drill seargent who threatens to end a relationship if you don't comply with her every wish. That's not a real relationship.
Posted by greyskyeyes on October 5, 2005, at 13:35:39
In reply to Psychiatric Disorder, marriage, and children, posted by Bob Jones on October 3, 2005, at 6:33:25
I'm sorry but it sounds so much to me like she's using you for your, ah, stud capabilities. Moving to Europe to have and raise a baby really sounds like she plans on excluding you completely from the process. Are you comfortable with possibly having a child with whom you would have little to no contact? Are you comfortable with bringing a child into a relationship with someone who is often oblivious to your presence? With someone who would issue such an arbitrary ultimatum?
Also... it's great that you've gotten her to seek a psychiatrist's help. But please keep this in mind -- most psychiatric medicines *cannot* be taken while pregnant! And having a child is such a life-changing event. It could seriously worsen her problems. That's what happened to me - my depression was under control so I went off medication to become pregnant... but it came back *much* worse after my son was born. That, along with the number of medications I need, have caused my husband and I to rethink our idea of having more children. It's hard to be an effective mother when you're battling such demons... counseling and medication help but it takes a lot of struggle and conscious effort. It's also a lot of strain on a relationship, even a strong one.
More than anything - please consider your own needs as well. I don't know your psychiatric history, but this sounds like something which could exacerbate *any* condition. And you just don't sound happy to me. None of us are trying to condemn you, we're trying to understand you and we all hope the best for you (if I may be so bold as to speak for everyone here). So please, take care of yourself. Keep us updated.
~ grey
Posted by Bob Jones on October 5, 2005, at 17:36:24
In reply to Re: Psychiatric Disorder, marriage, and children » Bob Jones, posted by greyskyeyes on October 5, 2005, at 13:35:39
I thank you for all of your responses. Some answers to some questions:
1. "What are you getting out of the relationship?" Because I've experienced 4 psychiatric hospitalizations, and because I know what I refer to as "the depression experience," I'm hopeful that she will come out of her current depression. I'm well aware of the dangers of women being on psych meds while pregnant. She is not currently pregnant. But: is empathy equivalent to love? The answer is "no." So, my answer to the question is, She brings me joy, sometimes. At other times it's just plain awful.
2. Will I have a child with the woman? My answer is "no, I will not." I HAVE 'produced' sperm for the fertility clinic to analyze (it's fine. 'Produce' is the term that's used there), but that's all. The actual fertilization would be the next step.
3. "When are you really going to start resenting this?" I began to have negative feelings about her, and towards her, approximately 3 weeks after I picked her up at the airport (this past summer). She had been visiting with her family, in Europe, for about 2 months before she returned to the USA.
This may seem improbable but it is true: my best friend is my ex-wife. And I'm her best friend. I've been speaking with her regularly about what's been going on and, of course, she doesn't like it. But coming home from work tonight I thought to myself: "If I do ask her to leave, where will she go? She has very little money. It might be a load off of me but wouldn't her depression just worsen? Then what?"
The only choice for her, if I do ask her to leave, would be for her to move back to her family in Romania. But she came back to the USA to marry me, which, as I've said, she now refuses to do.
I will NOT kick her out of my apartment and put her on the streets. The psychotherapist she is seeing does marriage counseling and I've asked her if she would permit BOTH of us to see him for a few sessions. This might be helpful but, of course, I would be deciding what to do. I'm going to give more time. How much time? I'm not sure. I know that we're only here for a very limited time, so it won't be in terms of years.
Posted by crazy teresa on October 5, 2005, at 19:37:45
In reply to stud capabilities?, posted by Bob Jones on October 5, 2005, at 17:36:24
And she is using you to live without expenses. And she is using you to become pregnant.
You sound like a very nice person, being concerned about her depression. But that is absolutely no reason to continue living with her or marrying her. If you ask her to leave, she'll have to do what thousands of other women do-- support herself. Give her 4 weeks to get a job and find a place. She'll be fine.
If your best friend is telling you this situation is not a good one, listen! She doesn't want you to get hurt.
Best wishes,
crazy t
Posted by sunny10 on October 6, 2005, at 9:52:46
In reply to So she has used you to get to the USA. » Bob Jones, posted by crazy teresa on October 5, 2005, at 19:37:45
and we don't want you to get hurt!
The more you tell, the more I want to tell you to tell her to go back to Romania.
Just my .02...
Posted by Susan47 on October 8, 2005, at 15:43:13
In reply to stud capabilities?, posted by Bob Jones on October 5, 2005, at 17:36:24
Do I have this right, so the what you're saying then is that,
1. You have empathy for this woman, not in love with her though. Some kind of balance is being struck in the relationship, with joy at one extreme and awful at the other.2. You won't have a child with her, but you have given sperm to a clinic, leading her to believe that it's a possibility.
You say "the next step is fertilization", which leads one to believe you may even go to the point of fertilizing her egg, but you say you won't have a child with her.
3. You have negative feelings about and towards her. The "towards" leads me to believe you're acting them out in some way? She must be okay with this.4. This woman is not your best friend. Another woman is. So on some level, you're closer to another woman than to this one. The only reason you live with this woman is because you're being a good samaritan? Is her depression your responsibility?
5. She came to this country on the pretext of marriage to you so that she could escape Romania. She wants a child. She doesn't care who the father is. She doesn't want to marry you. You don't want to marry her, or even be with her. Both your eyes opened and neither one of you can let go.
> I will NOT kick her out of my apartment and put her on the streets. The psychotherapist she is seeing does marriage counseling and I've asked her if she would permit BOTH of us to see him for a few sessions. This might be helpful but, of course, I would be deciding what to do. I'm going to give more time. How much time? I'm not sure. I know that we're only here for a very limited time, so it won't be in terms of years.Ouch. Been there, done that, it was not worth the trauma or the personal torture. I hope I'm wrong on every single count, for you. And if not, I hope you both are going to be okay, but wear a condom even if she says she's "protected".
Posted by Susan47 on October 8, 2005, at 15:47:08
In reply to Re: stud capabilities? » Bob Jones, posted by Susan47 on October 8, 2005, at 15:43:13
She's totally using you. You do deserve better, and I'm wondering why so many people from countries which such awful, terrible social histories, seem so mixed up and calculating. Why should we be surprised? This girl needs a lot of therapy, so if you stay with her, be ready. But you sound a bit mixed-up, too, and with her I would predict it would only get worse.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 8, 2005, at 17:49:07
In reply to Re: stud capabilities? » Susan47, posted by Susan47 on October 8, 2005, at 15:47:08
> I'm wondering why so many people from countries which such awful, terrible social histories, seem so mixed up and calculating.
Uh. I think you answered your own question just there...
Continuing the cycle...
(I'm not meaning to make a generalisation about people from any country in particular but thinking of this more from the individual level regarding - for example - history of abuse etc)
Posted by fairywings on October 10, 2005, at 23:05:42
In reply to stud capabilities?, posted by Bob Jones on October 5, 2005, at 17:36:24
> So, my answer to the question is, She brings me joy, sometimes. At other times it's just plain awful.
Hi Bob,
I"m so sorry that you're going through all of this, it sounds awful. What I see is that she's getting a free ride and free medical care, you love her, and she doesn't have to give anything in return. If she's not going to contribute financially or emotionally, then what is there for Bob? You have every right to feel resentful. Does she love you? Are the two of you affectionate with each other? Once she gets pregnant will she leave you and take the child, and does she expect you to stay here and deal with it? Will she try to extract support from you even though she's taken the child?
I'd really be insisting on getting the co-counseling. You say you won't throw her out, and that is admirable, but what about you? If she doesn't want to make a life with you, you really need to get on with yours, and find someone who will truly love you in return.
I hope when she gets on meds, and is into therapy a bit, things improve for you. I'm glad you have your ex-wife to confide in, and I agree with her discomfort over the situation.
fw
>
>
Posted by crazy teresa on October 10, 2005, at 23:29:36
In reply to Re: stud capabilities? » Bob Jones, posted by fairywings on October 10, 2005, at 23:05:42
Posted by Bob Jones on January 28, 2006, at 14:42:30
In reply to Bob Jones, are you still around? How are you? (nm), posted by crazy teresa on October 10, 2005, at 23:29:36
In response to crazy teresa's post, 10/10/2005: My fiance has been in Romania since the beginning of November, 2005. She returns to New York City on March 25th and I'll be picking her up.
She does love me, and I love her. We have spoken about the specifics of our relationship and we have drawn up a "contract" which states what each of us is responsbile for doing, including loving each other.
Of course, words are one thing and action is another. And, everyone around me continues to tell me "don't do it," i.e., marry her. But I will marry her.
This is the end of the thread.
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