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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnV on February 17, 2003, at 2:52:38
Howdy folks...haven't posted on here for a long time but am kindly asking for some oppinions. (kind of long) I really want to go back and finnish my university degree but this damn illness has kept me away for 7 or close to 8 years. I am a single male in my late twenties, and maybe many of you also feel this but it seems like all former friends, people you went to school with, are all married and/or have degrees and good work. I had to move back in with my folks because I couldn't handle a job with much stress. So I took a job a a night watchman, but quit while I am in an outpatient program, which both where at the suggestion of my family and doctor. My parents have been great and can financially support me and emotionally as well. But after 8 years, I got to put my life back on track because time is too precious and I have wasted so much. Yes I am a bit (well alot but) angry so much was robbed but am also thankful more than ever for what I got. On top of it the job situation is really bad here in Canada where I am from. I live in the big city of Toronto and it is all still just really bad. Most jobs seem to be service jobs that pay minimum wage (6.95 Hour Canadian, and the cost of living here is hell)
So I have a few choices. I could attend a local university and get my four year bachelor degree, which would likely be in sociology or psychology. I have part of that degree finished. But the catch is, I also am able to take a correspondence course through an excellent bachelor of social work program which will also give me a placement and more work experience, and a BSW degree when I am done. I could end up working in Child Protection for on average 50,000 a year. Ever since I had my first 'episode' 8 years ago, I lost my job of 6 years and can't use them as a reference because they fired me, and have badmouthed me also. So I need that job experience.
My worry with correspondence is that I will remain isolated, and with being physically in an actual classroom or lecture hall, I can learn to socialize again. I would be a fair bit older than most of the students, but that only bugs me a tiny bit. My parents have said I could stay at home until I finnish my degree, no matter which road I take. Money isn't a problem for school, because I luckily got a good size inheritance about a year ago to cover the complete cost of school. Plus, I need a few years to wait out financial problems from the past, as after 6 years any past debts are wiped from your credit rating. When I lost my last job, I couldn't afford the lifestyle I was accustomed to and had thousands of dollars in credit card bills. Not being able to find another good job, those debts went bad.
If anybody can offer me some enlightenment or is in a similar situation, I would love to hear from you. I am far from being "cured" but have regulated my symptoms fairly well with medication and now as I soon enter a few different types of therapy. Thank you for any responses kindly.
Posted by Bipolarsux on February 17, 2003, at 5:28:05
In reply to Going back to university after 7 years oftreatment, posted by JohnV on February 17, 2003, at 2:52:38
Hi John.
I can relate perfectly to what you have written. I had my first 'episode' when I was 21...and the 'episode' has not stopped since (I am now 'middle aged').
Exactly like you, I often still feel bitter because I am so conscious that my youth was destroyed. So much for the 'best years of our lives' eh?
I also watched my friends get married and build careers while I felt too overwhelmed with my illness and/or the side effects of treatment to do the same. It is very demoralizing and I know exactly what you mean. I am still single, still clinging to my job by a thread...still very ill.
As for your current 'crossroads' situation: maybe I could offer a strange suggestion? As someone with a severe mental illness, I find that *routine* work gives me the stability and lower stress that I need, especially when there is a physical aspect to it.
Have you ever thought of taking up a trade; carpenter, metal worker etc etc? Often it is not menial or back-breaking work and is a good distraction from mental pain, which is definitely worth something.
It pays fairly poorly at first, but not too bad later on (and at least you don't actually lose money, unlike going to college).I know it's a bit of a left-field suggestion but maybe it's something you haven't considered before.
Bipolarsux
Posted by daizy on February 17, 2003, at 7:33:33
In reply to Going back to university after 7 years oftreatment, posted by JohnV on February 17, 2003, at 2:52:38
> Howdy folks...haven't posted on here for a long time but am kindly asking for some oppinions. (kind of long) I really want to go back and finnish my university degree but this damn illness has kept me away for 7 or close to 8 years. I am a single male in my late twenties, and maybe many of you also feel this but it seems like all former friends, people you went to school with, are all married and/or have degrees and good work. I had to move back in with my folks because I couldn't handle a job with much stress. So I took a job a a night watchman, but quit while I am in an outpatient program, which both where at the suggestion of my family and doctor. My parents have been great and can financially support me and emotionally as well. But after 8 years, I got to put my life back on track because time is too precious and I have wasted so much. Yes I am a bit (well alot but) angry so much was robbed but am also thankful more than ever for what I got. On top of it the job situation is really bad here in Canada where I am from. I live in the big city of Toronto and it is all still just really bad. Most jobs seem to be service jobs that pay minimum wage (6.95 Hour Canadian, and the cost of living here is hell)
>
> So I have a few choices. I could attend a local university and get my four year bachelor degree, which would likely be in sociology or psychology. I have part of that degree finished. But the catch is, I also am able to take a correspondence course through an excellent bachelor of social work program which will also give me a placement and more work experience, and a BSW degree when I am done. I could end up working in Child Protection for on average 50,000 a year. Ever since I had my first 'episode' 8 years ago, I lost my job of 6 years and can't use them as a reference because they fired me, and have badmouthed me also. So I need that job experience.
>
> My worry with correspondence is that I will remain isolated, and with being physically in an actual classroom or lecture hall, I can learn to socialize again. I would be a fair bit older than most of the students, but that only bugs me a tiny bit. My parents have said I could stay at home until I finnish my degree, no matter which road I take. Money isn't a problem for school, because I luckily got a good size inheritance about a year ago to cover the complete cost of school. Plus, I need a few years to wait out financial problems from the past, as after 6 years any past debts are wiped from your credit rating. When I lost my last job, I couldn't afford the lifestyle I was accustomed to and had thousands of dollars in credit card bills. Not being able to find another good job, those debts went bad.
>
> If anybody can offer me some enlightenment or is in a similar situation, I would love to hear from you. I am far from being "cured" but have regulated my symptoms fairly well with medication and now as I soon enter a few different types of therapy. Thank you for any responses kindly.
I also had to leave Uni half way through because of my anxiety and depression, but Im also hoping to finish my degree at some point. Sounds to me like you feel ready to get back into it again, which is great but maybe the correspondence course would be a good way to ease back into it? It would be less demanding socially, and if you dont have to worry about money or a place to live two major stresses are already eliminated. You will get the chance to be social and meet new people through work experience, and as you probably know employeees favour work experience, and you cant get most good jobs if you dont have any. Just my opinion anyway :-)Just take time making the decision, and you can always change your mind if it doesnt feel right for you!!
Posted by JohnV on February 17, 2003, at 7:39:23
In reply to Re: Going back to university after 7 years oftreatment » JohnV, posted by Bipolarsux on February 17, 2003, at 5:28:05
Hello, and thank you so much for your insight. I see you are having a difficult time yourself, and I wish you all the best. One question about your situation: have you tried high dose benzodiazepines? They can act both as anti-manic as well as being anti-anxiety.I thought of a trade career a few years ago when I couldn't even get out of bed. But, (touch wood), I am eager for a university education, and that tends to be my "calling" because I am a very, very non-technical person and can't even hammer a nail properly. (Really...I had a developmental disability as a child that has carried over into adulthood, and it was/is very motorskill and cognitive oriented.)
I've been told many times I do have a talent with my 'people' skills. Not that I am "Mr. Social", but I really empathise and am a caring, very understanding person. I am sure you can see how mental illness would get in the way of that...hehe. I already have a two year degree in social services, but really need that BSW.
Thank you for the thought, it is really appreciated. Sincerely, John (the "V" one:-)
Posted by agencypanic on February 17, 2003, at 10:11:41
In reply to Re: Going back to university after 7 years oftreatment » Bipolarsux, posted by JohnV on February 17, 2003, at 7:39:23
I'm inclined toward the correspondence route, but is there a way that
you could do both? Maybe just take a class or two and do at a U near your home and do the major
portion of your degree work via correspondence?
Posted by shar on February 17, 2003, at 12:50:07
In reply to Re: Going back to university after 7 years oftreatment, posted by agencypanic on February 17, 2003, at 10:11:41
I was thinking what Agency said: Go the correspondence route, but take at least one class (even if you 'audit' it) at a local place (college, community college, adult education course, etc.). That way you are in a social situation which would be good for you, but not so much that it might make it hard to do your studies.
BTW, here in the U.S. (or maybe just Texas), auditing a course is sitting in on it, not for a grade but just for the information. It's also a good way to take a course outside of your degree plan that just interests you, without worrying about a grade.
Another BTW, I started grad school when I was 30, after being out of school for about 7 years, and most of my classmates were in their early 20's. So, it is more difficult initially in some ways (I also had a 12-year-old at home), but not too difficult to handle.
Good luck. I hope you pursue your education, whatever path you take.
Shar
Posted by noa on February 17, 2003, at 14:18:07
In reply to Re: Going back to university after 7 years oftreatment, posted by shar on February 17, 2003, at 12:50:07
Some thoughts. First, congrats that you are feeling ready to embark on a new chapter of your life!
I wonder if starting by taking one or two courses for a semester or two would be a good way to start, to get your feet wet. Full time uni can be stressful and very demanding, and you have been out of the routine for a long time. Also, could you look around at various universities, even community colleges, to see the percentage of older students? Some seem to attract more returning students than others, and you might feel more comfortable at one of those.
I don't know if correspondence classes would be better than in person, but allow me to share my personal pov: Universities are great places to not only do your coursework, but to expand your mind by meeting all kinds of people. I would also think that in social work, which is probably rather stressful an occupation, one needs the support of fellow students, in person. Besides, I remember school being a time for studying in groups, etc. But, of course, this still takes some initiative for part time students or older students (I was close to 30 when I entered to grad. school). But the support of fellow students can be quite wonderful--no one else in one's life really understands the intensity of the school experience, the ins and outs of a particular uni program, etc. I am still friends, over long geographical distances now, with some of my grad school friends. But this is just my personal way of looking at it, and I can't really say what would be best for you!
A friend of mine who had already had a bachelors and masters degree in one field, and had been working in her profession for 10 years, at 35, decided that career was just not for her. After a lot of soul searching and career counseling, she decided to pursue an entirely different career, which meant started over, almost from the very beginning of uni to get a bachelors degree (they gave her about 1 year's worth of credit, but because it was a whole new field, the other 3 years had to be done from scratch). She was older than many of her professors!! But she did it.
One more thought: Do they have disability support services (sometimes called "vocational rehab")where you are to provide advice and counseling, and sometimes material support, for getting back into career training and education? If you qualify, it might help to find out what they offer that could support you in the process of returning to school.
Fwiw--I understand that when the economy is bad, it is a good time to be in university, if you can pay for it, of course. In the early 90's, apparently grad school enrollment soared because of the slumping economy.
Posted by JohnV on February 18, 2003, at 1:00:24
In reply to Going back to university after 7 years oftreatment, posted by JohnV on February 17, 2003, at 2:52:38
I obviously am not or have been the only one to struggle with this. The kicker is how closely related education and getting a good job are, so if you don't get one, then you usually won't get the other. One of my other worries is going into a very high stress job in social work. I could get a good job in Child Protection Services that pays between 50-75 thousand a year, but will I still have my mind left by the end of the first year?..hehe. But, I feel with proper medication support and ongoing therapy, I should be able to handle it. I was a welfare officer once with a 300 client caseload, and I did ok, and that was before all my current treatment. Plus, I could just limit mymself to working in a particular job for no more than a few years, than move to something a bit less stressful.But my first goal is to get my Bachelor of Social Work degree. I already have a 2 year college degree in Social Service Work, so I should get a bit of advanced credit. What I may do is just apply for the program, and wait until I get accepted (which is quite likely..with my experience of 7 or so years in the field and excellent grades) to make any further decisions.
Thank you all for your kind help. John (the "V" one :-)
Posted by noa on February 18, 2003, at 12:19:31
In reply to Thanks for encouragement folks..other questions., posted by JohnV on February 18, 2003, at 1:00:24
Well, you don't have to decide the exact setting yet, of where you would work. Take one step at a time.
It seems the high stress jobs pay better, yes? If you try out that setting--like child protective services--as an internship, you'll get a taste of it and how the stress affects you. It sounds like the nature of the work itself is high stress, but I would think it also makes a big difference how the organization is run--your caseload size, bureaucratic issues, paperwork, how much superivision and support you would get, how much in-service training you'd get, how decisions are made, etc.etc. I am sure some organizations are better at these things than others and I imagine that makes a huge difference in the experience of doing that kind of work. Maybe you can ask for an informational interview to learn more about that branch of social services, or even if you can shadow someone for a day.
Money is important--it is true. You need enough to live on. As long as you can earn a livable wage, even if very modest, and if Social Work is what you really feel is right for you, then I say go for it. Your salary in the first years (unless you go into one of the high-stress jobs) might be very modest, but I'm sure it will improve somewhat with experience, no? If you can tolerate the idea that your earnings might always be relatively modest and you'll have to make some hard economic choices, and the profession is what fits you best, that is far better than going into a profession that you aren't interested just because earnings would be better. Also, you've had a lot of support from your parents, so I wonder if they can continue to help you out until you get more settled? Seeing a financial planner at some point could help, too.
It is funny---when I read my alumni magazine, full of all these very high powered people who went right to law school or business school or medical school, or right into lucrative jobs, now, as we get older, some of them have written in that they have changed careers--like from business exec. to teacher, or attorney to social worker, etc. because they find the new career option more meaningful to them.
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