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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Ginjoint on March 3, 2003, at 9:00:18
In reply to Help! , posted by kara lynne on March 1, 2003, at 17:30:20
Hey kara lynne...
I'm trying to think of what to say...why can it be so hard to type out words of encouragement?! Sometimes it is so easier to say them verbally, so that true vocal inflections shine through and really make the other person feel better. I really want you to feel better.
I can identify with your feelings of being too old to ever have what you want...I think just the sensations of clinical depression can make anyone feel twice their age. In the last few weeks, I am trying to make myself cognizant of what, at age 36, I'm too old for (not too much), and what the depression is making me think I'm too old for...and also what the depression makes me _physically_ feel I'm too old for. What do you feel you are too old for, kara lynne?
I think moving might be a good way for a fresh start, provided that the move itself won't cause too much extra stress. As we all know, moving can be a major stressor, so as long as you brace yourself for that and are ready to roll with its punches, go for it! One thing I'm doing this week for a fresh start, because I don't want to move, is to paint the walls of my apartment. I got permission from my landlord, so goodbye dirty white walls. It took me a long time to rev myself up for this. If you can't move, is there something else you can do with your home to freshen it up and reenergize yourself? Maybe just a good spring cleaning or moving some furniture around? I know this can take high energy levels to do, and I wish I was there to help you.
I have been in few relationships in my life, so I'm not very good at advice in that department. But I do know that feeling of utter despair, that this is "as good as it gets." What you've told though, sounds more like habit than relationship. Do you have any kind of support nework should you decide to leave? Ask yourself if any increased loneliness you might feel could be tempered by a new "lightness of being" as you leave other problems behind. I wish that I could think of better things to say, kara lynne, but I do wish you the strength to make the choices you need to make. I am rooting for you.
Ginjoint
Posted by kara lynne on March 3, 2003, at 14:29:36
In reply to Re: Help! , posted by Ginjoint on March 3, 2003, at 9:00:18
Hi Ginjoint,
I apologize for the long post, I didn't know I was going to write so much--I know it can be daunting to read and you don't have to! But thank you so much for your message, anyway. I can't tell you how much these posts mean to me in these times. It's funny, (or not really) but the depression *has* always made me feel like it's too late, like I'm too old, until now when I can really say it and mean it --about some things. But really it's that same pit of utter despair and emptiness that I've been waking up with for decades; it doesn't age. It's the same horrible feeling that I am detached from the rest of the world and just can't see the sun shining the way other people do. The same feeling that has made me isolate my entire life, even when I had "my whole life ahead of me"; that made me hide, and never answer phone calls, and never go anywhere I was invited, until eventually, I stopped being invited.I really hate to say this, it makes me sound like the kind of woman that I always thought was most desperate, but now I am too old (I'm pretty sure) to have my own child. I have two other siblings, and none of us ever had children and I feel like my parents must be ruined by this. More than that though, I just think I'm going to wake up for the rest of my life every morning by this emptiness that can never be filled by anything else. My brother did me the favor recently of telliing me that my old boyfriend and his wife are expecting their second child (a baby girl) any day now. He told me over a month ago and it plummeted me into something I have not been able to get out of. This man and I were going to get married and have two kids; he did it perfectly, even in the perfect order (boy first, girl second)--even though we were horrible together and it probably never would have worked.
I don't feel strong physically, I'm on medication and it would be damn hard for me to have a baby right now--if it still was possible. But I just can't let go of it. I got too old and tired too fast; I always thought I would be married with a family by now. On the one hand I try to give myself a break because I've had to deal with this debilitating depression most of my life. On the other hand, this debilitating depression has robbed me of a lot of life-- and given me a timeline much different than one I would have written for myself. So here I am today, with a guy who has many problems and no desire ever to have a child (and probably shouldn't anyway, and maybe I have no business thinking about having one either!), and I'm trying like hell to figure out what the next thing is I should do to save my life. Thank you for realizing the stress of moving; I'm trying to do what's realistic for me and what doesn't throw me into some sort of collapse. I guess at some point it will require a leap of faith. I do have a small support group, but as you might know, when you want to isolate you can do it anywhere. I'm sorry to be so long winded. Just trying to explain a little, for now anyway. Thank you again for your post.
Posted by kara lynne on March 3, 2003, at 14:38:38
In reply to Re: Help! » kara lynne, posted by bozeman on March 2, 2003, at 22:59:26
Hi bozeman,
Thank you and zorro for your prayers and kind words. They go a long way. Bozeman, I just love reading how you write about your cats. You're so funny, and you really capture their ways in a way I appreciate so much. I follow along and think, yes, I know just that kitty expression or antic or miraculous kitty feat. My kitty (although no longer a kitty-- but always a kitty, if you know what I mean) has been such a source of healing for me. I would have 3 if I could, but I'm allergic to one as it is. She's got me getting allergy shots rather than not letting her sleep in my bed!! (of course she would say, Yes, and is there a problem with this?) Anyway, I'm so glad to hear zorro's better, and tell him I'm on my way to go lay in the sun with him.
Posted by Ginjoint on March 3, 2003, at 20:02:46
In reply to Re: Help! / Ginjoint, posted by kara lynne on March 3, 2003, at 14:29:36
Hi kara lynne,
Don't worry, your posts aren't too long! You say what you need to say, and that's just fine.
I'm 36, and under a ton of pressure from my mother to have a child. I'm also under a ton of pressure from myself...I would love nothing more than a family. This pressure weighs down on me and grinds into me all day, every day. If I don't manange to get pregnant, I will look into adoption of older children, or even foster parenting. This issue is of enormous importance to me. May I ask, how old are you? Remember that more and more women are able to get pregnant later in life. It might take some special help, but it can and does happen. My attitude has always been, if you wait until everything's "perfect" to have a kid, you'll never have one. I know how happy a child would make me, and I know I could care for it well. I bet you could too. I kind of know how you feel when hearing of your ex's children -- right now my own pdoc is on maternity leave with her third child, a girl. She now has two boys and a girl and a loving, intelligent husband. This is going to sound so small and trite, but I had a very difficult time during her pregnancy and afterwards...maybe I'll talk about that in some other post.
Depression has screwed my life eight ways to Sunday. It reminds me of a line from an Indigo Girls song - "I missed a million miles of road I shoulda seen." I feel sometimes like it's my fault my life has gone so far from plan, but depression clouds everything. It's like swimming in a cold, murky loch, and after a while you just get TIRED. My pdoc reminds me to cut myself some slack for that; that people with other diseases are often sidetracked too. Still, it's hard not to be kind of frustrated and even bitter.
Families come in many shapes, sizes, and colors now, kara lynne. I hope I find my family, and I hope you do too.
Ginjoint
Posted by kara lynne on March 3, 2003, at 21:54:58
In reply to Re: Help! / Ginjoint » kara lynne, posted by Ginjoint on March 3, 2003, at 20:02:46
Hi Ginjoint,
Thank you so much for writing. God, it doesn't sound trite at all to me that it was hard for you to watch your therapist during her pregnancy. I can barely look at a pregnant woman these days-- and it seems like there are more than ever. I can't tell you how many women I went to school with who got married and pregnant while I stood by and watched. And every time I turn on the television it's another pregnant woman, or baby commercial, or story of a celebrity with zillions of dollars doing in-vitro fertilization. It just consumes me. Ok, here goes, and it does feel traumatic to say: I will be 43 years old very soon. I have always always wanted a child of my own, not to say that there's anything wrong with adopting and I think it's wonderful that you are thinking about that. Like I said, it feels like there is nothing else that could ever fill that longing. I know that women do get pregnant much later in life these days, but I would have to make a quantum leap in order to even consider it. I'd have to meet a man, (I 'd much rather a husband and father be in the picture), and be physically and financially prepared. I don't know if it's even physically possible for me anymore. It might take lots of help and then who knows-- and there's no-one in the picture to try with. Then again, I know of a 46 year old woman who met a man not long after her husband died (she had endured a long-suffering relationship with her husband) and got pregnant without any help, without even trying, and now has a beautiful, healthy baby girl.Right now I don't even have the energy to sit up in bed; I'm at a pretty bad biochemical low, and trying to find some med that will provide at least a little relief. I've been trying since Thursday to get ahold of my doctor and he's not calling me back. Today the receptionist said the air conditioning was broke in the office and the doctor was just trying to get through seeing his patients without being grumpy. I got off the phone and thought, Gee, that's nice. We wouldn't want the doctor to be grumpy now, would we? It's only my d**m life we're talking about, after all. On top of that a woman who I am very close to has just stopped talking to me-- we go through these periods. I'm not supposed to say anything, or notice, she prefers that we stay in denial about everything. If we should talk again, there will be no mention of it, and she will get mad at me if I mention it. She's known me since the day I was born (friend of my parents) and we have been very close throughout my life. We used to talk everyday, sometimes two or three times a day, and now nothing. I called her a couple of weeks ago upset about my relationship and I think she just had enough of it; she was almost angry at me. I guess she *was* angry. She just thinks I should make things work out with him somehow.
Anyway, I'm relieved that you understand this struggle. I know on a deep level what you mean when you say you're under a ton of pressure from yourself, that the pressure grinds into you all day, every day. That's me exactly. And you still have time!! Much more than me, and you still have a good chance of having a family of your own. On one hand it's nice to have your therapist model a good relationship and a loving family; on the other hand it is painful to watch when you don't have it yourself--yet. I feel like having a child would transform me; it just feels like a heartsick void to die without having that experience. I hesitate to say this because I don't want to get a backlash of people saying I want a child for the wrong reasons. Maybe I do. But all I know is I want one, silently, more than anything else in the world--and a loving husband and father to go along with it. I also know good things don't generally come to people in the state of mind I'm in, that I have to try to take care of myself and put one foot in front of the other and get a life. Right now it just seems like I will spend the rest of my life in regret, self-loathing and loss. I can't take another morning waking up in this hopelessness. But I suspect I will. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me Ginjoint, it really helps to know you understand.
Posted by lostsailor on March 4, 2003, at 3:15:29
In reply to Re: Help! / Ginjoint, posted by kara lynne on March 3, 2003, at 14:29:36
Kara, Ive been keeping up but not posting because it cause so much refection re my own life and last relationship --which she wants to restart (not possible!!) but odd non the less. If it's been a long time and you have talked to him about things or he knows how you feel, maybe its time to look at other options...
best, ~tony
Posted by Ginjoint on March 4, 2003, at 6:38:10
In reply to Re: Help! / Ginjoint, posted by kara lynne on March 3, 2003, at 21:54:58
Posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 12:39:14
In reply to Re: Help! / Ginjoint, posted by lostsailor on March 4, 2003, at 3:15:29
Our relationship is so shaky I don't even talk about it, but I realize I can't completely ignore it anymore. Other options, yes, that is looking like the way to go. I can just see my Personals ad: Morbidly depressed woman with aging ova looking for family man to knock her up and marry her. Hmmm, would you respond? So you were with a woman who wanted marriage, kids-- and you didn't?
Posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 12:52:30
In reply to Hi Sailor, posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 12:39:14
It makes me feel vulnerable and ashamed and wrong. I want to go back and qualify everything I said to make it more acceptable, but I'm going to take a shower instead.
Posted by gabbix2 on March 4, 2003, at 13:45:24
In reply to Hi Sailor, posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 12:39:14
Isn't that supposed to be "Heyyyy Sailor"
Hi Kara Lynn. Will misery loves company help?
I've been living at my Dad's basically since I ended my last abusive relationship with a substance user. Sometimes I think I stayed (too long) in those kind of relationships because I
had all that life passion and energy also, but I didn't know where to focus it. I just knew in a 'normal' relationship I would be bored.Now I'm freaked. When I'm with my girlfriends which is rare, I see how great it is to be 'woman" and its fine. But mostly I just can't believe how 10 years went by and I was either just getting by because of the depression, or because of the relationships. And now I'm almost scared to look up.
I've lost my anchor. I know I don't like where I live, but I don't know where to go, what to do.
Sometimes when my medication is working ( how sad does that sound ) I get a glimpse of how other people can handle things, that I seem to find overwhelming or heart wrenching. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to last long enough for me to actually act on it.I keep thinking that maybe I should look up some of those guys I thought were really boring and give up. But somehow I know I'd be miserable doing that too. I need security and adventure equally and its absolutely wrenching.
Where do you live do you need a roomate?
(Kidding, sort of)
Posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 22:07:37
In reply to Re: Hi Sailor » kara lynne, posted by gabbix2 on March 4, 2003, at 13:45:24
I thought of that (hey sailor) right after I sent it! Yes, yes, please accompany me in your misery. I can identify so well with what you said; if you only knew how 'interesting' my boyfriend is. I can only say interesting leads to a lot of boring suffering in the end. Tonight when I was picking up my Chinese food to go, a very normal kind of yucky looking man was getting his and I thought, Maybe that's the kind of man I should be open to. Then I'd have the life I want, that it's too late for now anyway. And I know just what you mean by having that glimpse into how other people seem to manage things that flatten us-- I used to say it was like having just enough knowledge to know I was retarded (I don't mean to offend anyone, that's really how I felt). It's like being starved and shown a film of people eating. Speaking of starving, I'm going to go eat my chinese food and chocolate now, but yes I do need a roommate! Where are you located? And WHY oh WHY can't these meds work better for us?
Posted by gabbix2 on March 5, 2003, at 12:31:50
In reply to Heyyyy Gabbix..., posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 22:07:37
Whats a nice girl like you doing in a place like this.
I'm in Canada, so I'm sure we're out of luck. It was a nice thought though. I hate the idea of going out and finding a cheap place I can afford on my own. But I also don't like hunting for a roomate like I did in my early 20's. Besides then I always knew someone who needed one. Now it feels strange.
Funny, someone I can connect with on babble though doesn't feel so "foreign and scary""What you said about being just smart enough to know you are retarded"
I know exactly what you mean. My friend and I were talking about that very thing. When you get flashes of just"normality"
Not that everythings perfect or anything, just that your problems are put in proper perspective for once,and you are able to see the good things and really 'feel them' not just know they exist.
And you think okay, I can do this, I g et it now, and then.. its gone. Its like a tease.
I hate feeling scared of everything. Why can't I find it an adventure?
Posted by lostsailor on March 5, 2003, at 14:14:30
In reply to Heyyyy Gabbix..., posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 22:07:37
BTW I am nice, well trained and single. And I need an Anchor...lol. I'll be up front ,though, I'm a bit neurotic. Wait, here that's normal so great!!
~tony
Posted by lostsailor on March 5, 2003, at 14:34:46
In reply to Hi Sailor, posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 12:39:14
No, strangely a bit the opposite. She had kids and we planned on marriage. Her kids are great and I guess I would have adopted them and been open to our own at one point.
But that's all we did is talk about marriage. Living in separate countries post 911 had to be dealt with by one of us moving,,ie marrying but she didn't seem to see the implications and hassles of what I had been doing virtually living in two countries for three years.
I finally just had to say we need to move on this and didn't see her trying at all. But now that I am gone...don't ya know, she want things back as they were and too much time and energy has passed. I have seen her use her son mike, which I love as my own, as a pawn to get us together again. The list is long but you can always rent fatal attraction and get the jist...lol
Hhhmmm…maybe I’ll start my add now. Never really thought of it before..
~tony
Posted by gabbix2 on March 5, 2003, at 14:38:43
In reply to Re: Heyyyy Gabbix...and kara..., posted by lostsailor on March 5, 2003, at 14:14:30
Funny, I always say that I need an anchor.
Always.. I don't know maybe its not that unusual.
I'm nice, but not well trained at all, and very neurotic, but I do try to make it at least interesting you know, like foreign film neurotic
where a girl can stab someone with a fork, and its seen by her lover as a charming eccentricity.
The only problem is I just don't have the wardrobe for it...sigh.
Posted by lostsailor on March 6, 2003, at 11:31:13
In reply to Re: Heyyyy Sailor... » lostsailor, posted by gabbix2 on March 5, 2003, at 14:38:43
Posted by gabbix2 on March 6, 2003, at 13:09:01
In reply to Re: Heyyyy gabbiz ...my heart just skipped a beat (nm), posted by lostsailor on March 6, 2003, at 11:31:13
I hope that was in a good way!
You never know, a few more weeks on Zyprexa and I could be your Island..
Posted by Ginjoint on March 6, 2003, at 14:25:31
In reply to I wish I hadn't said so much., posted by kara lynne on March 4, 2003, at 12:52:30
> It makes me feel vulnerable and ashamed and wrong. I want to go back and qualify everything I said to make it more acceptable, but I'm going to take a shower instead.
I'm sorry I didn't post sooner, kara lynne - I went away for a few days. Please don't ever worry here about cleaning up the face of depression to make it acceptable. We have to do that so much day to day...sometimes you just have to tell it like it is or implode. And if there's anything "wrong" with what you feel (there's not), then consider me your partner in crime. ;)
Ginjoint
Posted by lostsailor on March 7, 2003, at 8:10:19
In reply to Re: I wish I hadn't said so much. » kara lynne, posted by Ginjoint on March 6, 2003, at 14:25:31
gab,
Yes, of course all was said in a good way. I would love to love a fellow neurotic. An island could be considered an anchor, I guess...lol.
Honestly, though, I loved your post. It kinda made me tingle with delight. If you ever feel the need to stab me, though, please do not use a plastic fork. I would not want the little things to break off in me. Otherwise, though, go for it.
Catch me if you can,
~tony
Posted by kara lynne on March 7, 2003, at 16:29:54
In reply to Re: I wish I hadn't said so much.gab, posted by lostsailor on March 7, 2003, at 8:10:19
Now that gabbix has found her lost sailor who has thrown her his 'anchor'...ahem...and I'm left shipwrecked and castaway...
Posted by gabbix2 on March 7, 2003, at 17:22:31
In reply to I'm SO glad you two found each other..., posted by kara lynne on March 7, 2003, at 16:29:54
Don't be silly. Silly.
You are welcome on my island.
If you click on my name you can even send me a message . (and you don't need a bottle)
Posted by lostsailor on March 7, 2003, at 21:19:04
In reply to Re: I'm SO glad you two found each other..., posted by gabbix2 on March 7, 2003, at 17:22:31
Have I woke and found cupid has vacationed at my home. Now I am on an island with two women. I must admit, I'd be rather confused as I've never... I think it's xanax time.
~tony
Posted by kara lynne on March 7, 2003, at 21:43:23
In reply to Re: I'm SO glad you two found each other..., posted by lostsailor on March 7, 2003, at 21:19:04
Yes, if nothing else we should all have our meds on this island.
Posted by Tabitha on March 8, 2003, at 23:32:26
In reply to Club Med, posted by kara lynne on March 7, 2003, at 21:43:23
I'll paddle my canoe out and join you on the island. Coconut drinks, sarongs, white sand, blue water. sounds better than doc bob's mental health conference in minnesota, doesn't it?
Posted by lostsailor on March 9, 2003, at 7:47:48
In reply to Re: and tabitha makes four, posted by Tabitha on March 8, 2003, at 23:32:26
Hmmmm. Wheels are in motion. Now all we need is a deserted or reasonably priced remote island, physician, pharmacy and bartender (I don't drink much, but who knows what the future holds).
Pet Friendly.
I agree Tab, this is better than the convention. Picture Bob, M.D., using us a seminar tools. LOL, I think we have a great lil' community here, but would Minn. be ready for the invasion of the PB crew????
~tony
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