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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 4:13:15
I can't sleep decently without pills. I tried, I thought my body would get the sleep it needs, but it doesn't. For a couple weeks it was OK to only get a few hours, but it just got worse and worse, I felt so irritable and spacy, and craved sedation so much.
It's the SSRI causing the insomnia, but if I stop it, then how do I keep from crashing? I was on serzone, it's not so activating, but it barely touched my depression. I was on TCAs, they're plenty sedating, but they make me feel awful. I was on sedating add-on meds but they keep me out for 10-12 hours, so my sleep cycle kept getting later and later, I couldn't keep on a normal schedule.
My doc won't write refills on ambien so I run out. Besides if I take it every night it quits working. So I'm taking crappy antihistamine sleeping pills. They work OK but I eat like a pig from them. It feels like I just really really need double my normal food intake. I don't want to deny my appetite because I spent so long giving myself permission to eat (anorexic tendencies).
Another rock and a hard place.I always had disturbed sleep, as a kid I couldnt' get to sleep at night, couldn't get up in the morning, then on weekends slept 12-14 hours to catch up, which enraged my stepdad, who was always trying to force me to get up at a 'decent' hour. For what reason? I don't know. So I wonder do I also have sleep 'issues' due to being punished for sleeping in. And it was the most attention I ever got from my mom, she dragged my sleepy self out of bed every morning, and worried whether I'd miss the school bus. Sometimes she'd sort of physically prop me up and put my arms into my robe, on into my teens. Can you believe she'd do that?
I'm sick of battling my body. I hate pills. Nothing else works. I want that OFF switch with the 8 hour timer installed in the back of my neck.I had this evil oppressive boss once, who told me she just forced herself through willpower to go to sleep at night. Wish I could do that, only without becoming evil and oppressive. I'd just say F-- you brain, you're shutting off NOW!
Posted by Alara on March 15, 2003, at 4:24:32
In reply to Insomnia sucks, posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 4:13:15
Oh Tabitha, I know exactly what you're going through. My doctor is getting me to wean off Xanax (the only thing that gives me a reasonable night of sleep) and the SSRIs definitely don't help in that regard.
As a child I was the same as you: Would stay up until 2 or 3am during the school holidays reading books and could never rise before 11am. Even during school term, my body never adapted to the 7am-10am schedule that is favoured by most human (?) beings.. Yeah, getting up early is unnatural for creatures like us and insomnia sucks BIG TIME.
Occasionally I find that burning lavender oil and having a shower before bed helps. You've probably already tried this. There's probably nothing that any of us can recommend to improve the situation. Hope it improves soon. Life without sleep is a life in hell!
I hope your mean boss gets a decent dose of insomnia soon so that she knows how you feel. :-)
Wishing you all the best,
Alara
Posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 5:15:13
In reply to Re: Insomnia sucks » Tabitha, posted by Alara on March 15, 2003, at 4:24:32
Hey, fellow night-owl, that's just what I'd do as a kid, read books til the wee hours. Now I web-surf til the wee hours. Eleven AM is my natural wake-up time on weekdays, on weekends it's more like 3pm.
I do use lavendar oil every night, I love the stuff. I also take my shower late, and in a dark room. Very relaxing. But.. still not sleep-inducing enough.
What does your evil doc want you to do without the xanax?
I think I just have to bite the bullet and give up my celexa. Gaak! A med change!
One good point, that awful nazi woman isn't my boss anymore. My current boss doesn't seem to need any sleep, she starts work around 8am and is still online at 11pm sending emails.
Posted by Alara on March 15, 2003, at 6:00:00
In reply to Re: Insomnia sucks » Alara, posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 5:15:13
> Hey, fellow night-owl, that's just what I'd do as a kid, read books til the wee hours. Now I web-surf til the wee hours. Eleven AM is my natural wake-up time on weekdays, on weekends it's more like 3pm.
Wow, Tabitha. We must be separated twins! If I wasn't working, they would be my exact wakeup times!!
>
> I do use lavendar oil every night, I love the stuff. I also take my shower late, and in a dark room. Very relaxing. But.. still not sleep-inducing enough.
>
Tabitha, have you tried cammomile or lemon/ginger tea? They relax me when I have my two nights a week off beer. (Am desperately trying to give up alcohol but that's hard when you're working hard and going through Xanax withdrawal.)
> What does your evil doc want you to do without the xanax?Luckily he's compassionate enough to let me wean off it gradually - but i guess he ultimitely wants to to walk down the exercise/shower/lavender kind of route.
>> I think I just have to bite the bullet and give up my celexa. Gaak! A med change!
Tabitha, have you tried a tri-cyclic antidepressant? They knock you out at night but I don't like the sedating effect which carries through to the next day. (Besides that, they don't seem to be as effective for social anxiety.) Effexor is also a bit more relaxing than SSRIs but the stuff made me want to sleep TOO much.
>> One good point, that awful nazi woman isn't my boss anymore. My current boss doesn't seem to need any sleep, she starts work around 8am and is still online at 11pm sending emails.
>
How do those people function??? We need our sleep! Whah!!!Sweet dreams. I'm going to hit the sack once I digest this pizza.
Posted by fayeroe on March 15, 2003, at 8:23:45
In reply to Re: Insomnia sucks, posted by Alara on March 15, 2003, at 6:00:00
i am taking a version of belladonna for hot flashes and it helps alot with insomnia for me!
and it's safe.....i was working in ER at night and having hot flashes so bad that i would be taking a patient back and just suddenly be soaking with sweat...very embarrassing and extremely annoying and sooooooo unprofessional. i asked my PA about it and she consulted her doc and they put me on a generic (VERY CHEAP)version with some added stuff. perhaps ergomat? (sp) ANYWAY, my routine after coming home was surfing the net til i dropped and then sleeping and getting up and bathing, dress and go back to work...the first night i took the Belladonna...i slept and woke refreshed. AND the bleeping hot flashes have stopped entirely!! Check it out! good luck, pat
Posted by paxvox on March 15, 2003, at 14:08:27
In reply to Re: Insomnia sucks, posted by Alara on March 15, 2003, at 6:00:00
Well, for 15 years, that has been my life. W/O meds, I don't sleep. However, there is that time when your doc wants you off the benzos or Ambien class meds (not to mention that BCBS insurance has put the clamp on ANY sleep med). To me, it's a quality of life issue. Why would a doc subject us to such torture? Perhaps because they have not had that problem? Perhaps because 10 million Americans are "legally" addicted to benzos? The same has happened with pain management. Used to be Tylenol 3 was like a given if you were sore, now it's ibuprophen or naproxen etc... Opiates/opioids are SO bad for us! Guess no one has been paying too much attention to the MU 1 receptor. Gee, wonder WHY opiates make you feel better if you are depressed? A no-brainer there, but again, we can't have everyone walking around taking Vicodin now can we? So,back to sleep. They don't care. They don't want to buck the system. If you can't sleep YOU are the problem. You are anathema! Don't you see? See you in my "dreams".
PAX
Posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 15:59:43
In reply to Re: Insomnia sucks, posted by paxvox on March 15, 2003, at 14:08:27
Yup, doesn't it seem like the meds that actually WORK and make us feel better are always under attack? Maybe it's that Puritanism still at work.
My ins. cut off the Ambien already, so I was paying $75 cash for 30 5mg at my drug store.
Posted by beardedlady on March 15, 2003, at 16:25:14
In reply to Insomnia sucks, posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 4:13:15
Tabicat:
Warning: this post makes no sense. I have to go out to a big party right now, and I am rushing, and I have no idea what any of this stuff below means or has to do with anything. I'm posting it anyway to support you.
I was told by everyone--pdoc, therp, friends, family--that my body would get the sleep it needs. Eventually. I just couldn't wait that long.
I don't have a depression problem. Anxiety caused my insomnia, or insomnia caused my anxiety, no one's sure which came first. I slept fine all my life until four and a half years ago.
So Serzone, the drug I've been on four years (with a few months off just to see if I could; I couldn't), does nothing for depression. You're right. And the higher my dose, the worse I feel.
I also take Sonata once in awhile (the short Ambien, because I wake at 2:00 a.m. and only need to sleep four more hours), and I have refills forever.
I don't know why your doc won't prescribe as much as you want. You're right; they do stop working after a few weeks of every night. But they start working again after a few weeks off.
If you like this SSRI, can you take ativan? That works like a charm.
Anyway, I hear you. It's awful. And yes, we do it to ourselves (or have it done to us). The willpower lady, obnoxious as that is (to me, anyway) is right. My pdoc has been telling me since the moment I saw him that as soon as sleep becomes less of a big deal, I'll sleep.
I have been working on that since mid-February--going out a lot to hang out with friends at night, late. I pushed my bedtime from 9:00 to 10:30 (it's hard, though; I fell asleep on the sofa at 8:45 last night!) most nights, and I meditate a little (it makes me fall asleep!). I've only had to have a sleeping pill a week lately. (I just jinxed it, of course.)
Okay, I don't know what I'm saying now. I wrote to tell you how many times I've prayed to have that on/off switch installed in my back.
I hope you get some quality sleep soon. I'll keep you in my thoughts.
beardy : )>
Posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 22:13:22
In reply to On/Off switch » Tabitha, posted by beardedlady on March 15, 2003, at 16:25:14
Thanks, Beardy, I hope you had a great time at your party and stayed up past 9pm. You wild thing you!
I didn't think of taking a pill after waking up early, that would probably work too. I'm going to try adding some serzone, or replacing the celexa with serzone, and see how it goes. I ordered some from an non-US pharmacy (naughty me). By getting the larger dose pills, which I can chop into quarters, it's actually going to be cheaper than my copay would be if I went thru the normal channels. Until it gets here I'll cut my celexa does in half, maybe that will keep me from crashing without causing the intractible insomnia.
I'm just giving up on the benzos and ambien/sonata type stuff, since it's expensive and such a hassle with the ins. and docs. Heck with it all. I'm going DIY for a while.
I just hope they don't take serzone off the market as a result of all the liver damage lawsuits.
Posted by sienna on March 16, 2003, at 21:10:33
In reply to Insomnia sucks, posted by Tabitha on March 15, 2003, at 4:13:15
Tabitha
what time do you take your meds cuz i used to take one at nite and it gave me insomnia but switched to daytime and it was better. now im on something else and can take it at nite, but maybe you could play with what time you takee your pills. i dont know. also they say to dim your lites an hour before you go to bed so your body thinks nite time and take a bath cuz that helps do something with your blood. I cant remmeber al the things they sayd to me but also eat something with tritophan in it like turkey or milk or something makes you tired.
hmmm, melatonin can help or Kavakava i think maybe.i dont know all of what can help but these are some sugggestions i got when i was haveing trouble and it was makeing me crazy and i called the ER nurse at 4 in the mornign.
i hop eyou feeling better soon.
sienna
Posted by texan2dbone on November 21, 2003, at 15:33:58
In reply to ASK YOUR DOC ABOUT BELLADONNA!!!!!!!!!!!!! » Alara, posted by fayeroe on March 15, 2003, at 8:23:45
what is the name ofthe belladonna concoction you are taking? is it an Rx, or can I just get it at an herb store (over the counter)?
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