![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:17:41
In reply to Re: Why? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
OK, your post to Eddie about the social circle situation (try saying those 3 words 5 times fast!) reminds me that I read that post, and wanted to respond. It was one of those that I felt I wanted to think about and was too tired at the time to say something coherently, and then I missed it when coming back to the board. I'm sorry.
Let me go read it again.
Posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:24:34
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 17:48:30
You know, the variety in personalities and ways of looking at things and genuine takes on life and quirks and senses of humor and experiences, etc. etc. makes this interesting and worth reading!! If we were all the same, it would be boring. Don't think that there is the "right" thing to post. If there were, then this place would not be the rich exchange it is. How dull it would be to come and see one problem one "wise" answer and that is all. I LOVE how different people are. And all the quirks and POVs and unique ways that people express themselves.
You know, there have been times when I posted something and didn't get much response. So, I learned something to deal with that--I just post again! Maybe people were busy. Maybe another thread just happened to be more compelling that day for whatever reason. You can post again and say, "hey guys, I really could use your help on this!".
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 18:35:02
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 17:48:30
> I think what you're feeling is what we all feel from time to time, or even consistently. :)
>
> I know there are times when I write a post, then Mair or Noa or Tabitha or Gabbi or Shar, or one of the many sensitive intuitive and clever posters come after me and write what I wish I had written. And my post seems like a stupid waste of server space. I am so embarassed at posting drivel.I could add to your list many more - yourself, white rabbit, jyl, leeran, and so on. But you know, I have learned from these intelligent people even if they may not have learned much of value from me. So I choose to view reading their words as a gift. But when reading some of these inspiring words I feel compelled to respond to them, and I guess if I don't receive a response, I feel like a failure. Thank you for reminding me that I'm not, and for always responding to my posts (if you haven't I don't remember - you seem to be responsive to everyone, and that takes a lot of emotional/mental energy). And some of these wise people may not view me as a failure - I'm the one labelling myself, not them.
>
> Or I'll be the thread ender. Or worst of all, someone will be offended by something I say. And I'll feel like the most miserable bad girl to ever draw breath. I have a rather quick bad girl trigger.I couldn't imagine anyone being offended by you, but if you inadvertantly did, I'm sure the feathers didn't stay ruffled.
> I think those feelings tend to be common with those of us who are sensitive to nuance. Sometimes we're a bit too sensitive, if you know what I mean. And it's also a part of our conditions. Depression leads to negative feelings about ourselves. Anxiety causes us to judge ourselves harshly. But those feelings don't necessarily reflect reality.
>I know this is true. But my reality is based upon how other respond to me (or don't) or how I perceive it, whether it is accurate or not
I need to change my perception of reality. Will drugs do this?> As to whether you should stay or go? I certainly hope you stay. But I can only share with you what I have decided to think, after an inordinate number of therapy sessions devoted to this board.
>> There may be posters who have something wiser and wittier to say about any or all subjects than what I might contribute. But that doesn't mean that what I say isn't valuable anyway. It's not a competition, and my post isn't necessarily a waste of server space. It's not possible to know what comment will touch or move someone, or make them think.
>
> If I get no responses to what I say, it's not necessarily because I was so idiotic that no one can possibly respond. People might be caught up in their own problems, the topic might be exhausted, or my post might not have sparked anything new to say. And that's ok.
>
> When I'm feeling thick and stupid, when I'm having problems myself, the words may have a hard time working their way through the sludge of my mind. Maybe I can't contribute at all, or maybe a no message one line post of support is all I can offer. Maybe a thick headed stupid post is all I can offer. But if I offer it with the intent to help, or to support, maybe that intent will come through, and maybe that intent will be enough in itself. That's an important one for me, because sometimes my mind feels quick and free, but sometimes it feels thick and dull. I tend to judge myself harshly. Maybe my judgements are correct, maybe they aren't.
>
I feel that way, too.> Finally, if I post something that probably would have been better left unposted, I apologize. If I post something that is misinterpreted, I try to figure out what happened. It doesn't necessarily mean I've been bad.
>
> Now I'm not saying that any of these apply to your actual posts, but perhaps they apply to how you think about your posts. I'm just describing what I've decided to feel about how I see my own posts.
>
This does pretty much apply to my posts, as well.
I am hard on myself; most people probably are. If there's a heaven and I'm in it, do you know what I hope for?
Conversational wit and a superb singing voice. I could even sing and talk to myself and enjoy listening!> And you know, sweetness is every bit as wonderful a quality as "attitude" is. Sweet is valuable. Sweet is worthwhile. If you can claim sweetness for yourself, you should hold your head high and be proud. It's not that common a quality, you know.
I don't want you to get the idea that I'm all "sweetness and light". I have been a real b**** to my husband on occasion (because I feel so comfortable with him). But I have a hard time expressing my anger to others - I seem incapable of it, and if I were to, it would probably be very explosive and unpleasant. I think that people with "attitude" have mastered the ability to channel their anger into this attitude using appropriate wit and/or sarcasm when necessary.
When that song "Gotta Be" first came out I remember thinking that would be the perfect kind of person to be - the kind of person that song personifies. But maybe with just a little extra sugar on the top?Thanks again, Dinah. :)
I choose to stay, but may just do more reading than posting for a while after this thread.
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:12
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:24:34
> You know, the variety in personalities and ways of looking at things and genuine takes on life and quirks and senses of humor and experiences, etc. etc. makes this interesting and worth reading!! If we were all the same, it would be boring. Don't think that there is the "right" thing to post. If there were, then this place would not be the rich exchange it is. How dull it would be to come and see one problem one "wise" answer and that is all. I LOVE how different people are. And all the quirks and POVs and unique ways that people express themselves.
>
> You know, there have been times when I posted something and didn't get much response. So, I learned something to deal with that--I just post again! Maybe people were busy. Maybe another thread just happened to be more compelling that day for whatever reason. You can post again and say, "hey guys, I really could use your help on this!".
Noa,
I have always appreciated your responses and I do remember you saying that you were going to do more reading for a while.
I haven't been referring to you necessarily, but I did wonder if maybe you had decided that I was a little too flaky or whatever to bother with.It takes a lot of effort to respond to everyone. I have felt that it was just too much to respond soon after at times.
I know I must have sounded like a crybaby. I wonder what it would take to get a group therapy session started in my area? There are none that I know of in this city that deal with social issues.
Thanks for considering me part of the group. From one who has been a welcomed part of very few groups it means a lot.
Take care
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:51
In reply to Re: Why? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
Hey there WorryGirl,
The other day, after reading your post about your neighbor situation, I wrote a mega-post to you and then ended up saving it on my desktop because I thought it was just too darned long.
Maybe I will post it . . . it was a doozy (because I felt bad about your situation and it reminded me of situations I've been in before).
I'm sorry you're feeling so down today. I'm such a loner that I suppose I've learned to be my own dorky best friend and at the risk of sounding incredibly anti-social (and selfish), I kind of prefer it that way.
I think people are, by nature, self-involved. I mean, when you stop to think about it, who isn't? I know I am! Shoot, everyone is. We are, after all, in our own skin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Given everyone's own level of self-involvement it may come down to the fact that everyone is busy doing their own thing and isn't ever purposefully rejecting anyone else.
Sometimes I stop and think about how busy I am doing hardly anything, and I am struck by the thought that everyone else is out there, i.e. the guy in the next car over, the lady in front of me at the grocery store, the kid on the bike, etc., chugging away on the little Gerbil wheel in the same exact way. And suddenly, I feel really weird - as though my life, which seems so important to me, is just as unimportant to all these strangers as their lives are to me. That's a hard feeling to describe, but I've had it several times and it's kind of a weird sensation. It's like taking yourself out of your world for a moment and seeing the world in its entirety. It lasts for about as long as it does for the traffic light to change, or the kid on the bike to pedal out of view.
I think I will post my mega-post to you before I go upstairs (it will follow this one), but first I want to say this - in the world of "message boards" it is easy to get caught up in an "act-react" mentality.
You (not "you" personally) write something that's close to your heart and it's kind of a risky action, putting yourself out on the limb (in your own writing) on a public message board. The flipside of any act is usually a re-act-ion, similar to what happens in a real life conversation. I say something, you answer back, I respond and it goes back and forth.
Some of that "act/reaction" DOES happen on message boards; however, message boards are unique in that they give people (such as myself) the luxury of walking away to do the laundry, answer the phone, take the dog out, etc. -
I may have every intention of responding to a post, but once I delete the notice from my inbox, or look at the message on the board and it changes "colors," it is oftentimes forgotten.
Additionally, there seem to be individuals of all ages, gender and locale posting here. Some age groups have more in common, some people from similar localities can, perhaps, relate to one another a bit better, etc.
To top it off, there are several people who have posted here for years and have naturally built up a lot of camaraderie. That shared history gives those folks a commonality that newcomers, such as myself and others, simply can't relate to because we haven't "done the time." That's just life. I guess if you stick around anywhere long enough you'll (not "you" - anyone) will start to fit in - I mean, look at the character of Cliff Claven on "Cheers."
Actually, I like being a newcomer on any board - and here's why: I don't know about former skirmishes and I don't have preconceived notions about individual posters. That gives me a clean slate from which I can paint little thumbnail portraits of each poster as I slowly remember their story and start putting their posts together in memory. It's like starting a new book. Quite exciting.
I don't know if any of this drivel I've written is of any use but I thought I would throw it into the mix.
I hope you don't become discouraged and leave. It's one thing to leave because you're too busy or other things are going on in your "real" life - but I'm always saddened when people take off from any message board (not just this one) out of discouragement/disillusionment.
I'll post the long dissertation after I give it one more read-thru.
Best regards,
Lee
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:48:49
In reply to Re: Why? » Dinah, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 18:35:02
> I know this is true. But my reality is based upon how other respond to me (or don't) or how I perceive it, whether it is accurate or not
I need to change my perception of reality. Will drugs do this?No, drugs won't. But therapy can. Are you currently in therapy? (Forgive me if I've asked this before, I'm feeling better this evening, but I've definitely been in the stupid thick headed mode lately.) Therapy is designed to help with the relationship type things you're talking about. Distorted perceptions are the very stuff of CBT, and while I can't tolerate CBT straight up, it's not bad when mixed with some interpersonal therapy. Life is hard when you look to others to how to see yourself. Not that I've managed to get past that, mind you. But I'm working on it.
As I have said, therapy has played a very important role in my life on this board. Countless scheduled and emergency sessions have been spent with a sheaf of posts in my hand, tears coursing down my cheeks. :( If you look back at the archives (and please don't - it's just too darn humiliating) you'll see that I've had more than my share of rocky times here. And since this is my main social interaction, it's only natural that all my issues have gotten played out here from time to time. It's not all better, and I still have my moments. But therapy has helped me, and continues to help me, immensely.
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:52:24
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by noa on May 14, 2003, at 18:17:41
YES, Noa, you described it exactly:
" . . . reminds me that I read that post, and wanted to respond."
That happens to me quite often - and then, there are times when I actually think I have posted because I have written 90% of the post and never got it finished.
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:54:57
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:48:49
"And since this is my main social interaction"
Hey, Dinah, here lately, mine, too! I don't have to say "pardon me, what did you say?" on the board (I'm in need of a hearing aid in my right ear - but I want to wait until I can justify the expense of one of the digital models, which may be never).
Posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 18:56:39
In reply to Re: Why? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
WorryGirl - methinks you have a touch of the manic depressive in you. If so...welcome, welcome to our dark little club. Don't be put off by the opium-den atmosphere - take off your shoes, sit down and relax.
You under-estimate your gifts. Your writing is clear and intelligent. You scoff at being "sweet",
which means you have the capacity to care deeply about someone else. Which means that, in your correspondance, in the way you relate to others,
your conversation isn't the usual, "Mememememe and me, and did I tell you about me?" Don't ever let anyone convince you that caring for others is wrong, that you SHOULD be just as competitive and selfish as the next guy. This doesn't leave you defenseless in the rat race, because you don't have to BE in the rat race at all. Step aside, leave the race to the rats. You be sweet, girl.I don't always reply to everyone when they post to me BUT I always appreciate it, I really do, when someone takes the time to answer me. (Every once in awhile I do offend somebody - not too far back, somebody called me a bigot - but those posts are few and far between.) I get support and advice here, and try to give the same in return when I feel I have something to offer. Most importantly - I believe I posted this recently to someone, can't remember who - the act of writing itself is a healing process, as it allows you to organize those thoughts in your head. When someone replies with a kind word, that's a special bonus.
So don't cut yourself off from that! I can tell you, the way we see ourselves and the way others see us is quite different. We're not flat, one-dimensional beings, we're all multi-faceted as jewels, presenting different sides of ourself to others. This doesn't mean we're deceptive, just complex. For instance, my husband thinks I'm impossibly strange and probably quite mad. (And he does know how to push those buttons that set me off, quite right.) But not everybody has that opinion of me and I will no longer let him convince me that I'm some kind of freak because we're polar opposites...we might be very different, but that doesn't make ME wrong or wierd
or somehow inferior to him. Just different. Hallalujah for different.
-Gracie
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:58:46
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:51
> I'm sorry you're feeling so down today. I'm such a loner that I suppose I've learned to be my own dorky best friend and at the risk of sounding incredibly anti-social (and selfish), I kind of prefer it that way.
>
Oh, Lee. I really think we must be related. Or maybe it's only child stuff. (Ok, I have a brother, but we didn't adopt him till I was ten and already an only child for too long to change.)> Sometimes I stop and think about how busy I am doing hardly anything, and I am struck by the thought that everyone else is out there, i.e. the guy in the next car over, the lady in front of me at the grocery store, the kid on the bike, etc., chugging away on the little Gerbil wheel in the same exact way. And suddenly, I feel really weird - as though my life, which seems so important to me, is just as unimportant to all these strangers as their lives are to me. That's a hard feeling to describe, but I've had it several times and it's kind of a weird sensation. It's like taking yourself out of your world for a moment and seeing the world in its entirety. It lasts for about as long as it does for the traffic light to change, or the kid on the bike to pedal out of view.
>
Wow. I haven't had that perspective for a long time. As a kid, I would have it a fair amount. Does that mean I've gotten way too self involved?> Actually, I like being a newcomer on any board - and here's why: I don't know about former skirmishes and I don't have preconceived notions about individual posters. That gives me a clean slate from which I can paint little thumbnail portraits of each poster as I slowly remember their story and start putting their posts together in memory. It's like starting a new book. Quite exciting.
>
I've been wanting to compliment you on that skill for some time, Lee. You really are quite extraordinary in your ability to do that, and it shows in your posts.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:59:32
In reply to Re: Why? » noa, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:52:24
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 19:01:43
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 18:43:51
> Hey there WorryGirl,
>
> The other day, after reading your post about your neighbor situation, I wrote a mega-post to you and then ended up saving it on my desktop because I thought it was just too darned long.
>
> Maybe I will post it . . . it was a doozy (because I felt bad about your situation and it reminded me of situations I've been in before).
>
> I'm sorry you're feeling so down today. I'm such a loner that I suppose I've learned to be my own dorky best friend and at the risk of sounding incredibly anti-social (and selfish), I kind of prefer it that way.
>
> I think people are, by nature, self-involved. I mean, when you stop to think about it, who isn't? I know I am! Shoot, everyone is. We are, after all, in our own skin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Given everyone's own level of self-involvement it may come down to the fact that everyone is busy doing their own thing and isn't ever purposefully rejecting anyone else.
>
> Sometimes I stop and think about how busy I am doing hardly anything, and I am struck by the thought that everyone else is out there, i.e. the guy in the next car over, the lady in front of me at the grocery store, the kid on the bike, etc., chugging away on the little Gerbil wheel in the same exact way. And suddenly, I feel really weird - as though my life, which seems so important to me, is just as unimportant to all these strangers as their lives are to me. That's a hard feeling to describe, but I've had it several times and it's kind of a weird sensation. It's like taking yourself out of your world for a moment and seeing the world in its entirety. It lasts for about as long as it does for the traffic light to change, or the kid on the bike to pedal out of view.
>
> I think I will post my mega-post to you before I go upstairs (it will follow this one), but first I want to say this - in the world of "message boards" it is easy to get caught up in an "act-react" mentality.
>
> You (not "you" personally) write something that's close to your heart and it's kind of a risky action, putting yourself out on the limb (in your own writing) on a public message board. The flipside of any act is usually a re-act-ion, similar to what happens in a real life conversation. I say something, you answer back, I respond and it goes back and forth.
>
> Some of that "act/reaction" DOES happen on message boards; however, message boards are unique in that they give people (such as myself) the luxury of walking away to do the laundry, answer the phone, take the dog out, etc. -
>
> I may have every intention of responding to a post, but once I delete the notice from my inbox, or look at the message on the board and it changes "colors," it is oftentimes forgotten.
>
> Additionally, there seem to be individuals of all ages, gender and locale posting here. Some age groups have more in common, some people from similar localities can, perhaps, relate to one another a bit better, etc.
>
> To top it off, there are several people who have posted here for years and have naturally built up a lot of camaraderie. That shared history gives those folks a commonality that newcomers, such as myself and others, simply can't relate to because we haven't "done the time." That's just life. I guess if you stick around anywhere long enough you'll (not "you" - anyone) will start to fit in - I mean, look at the character of Cliff Claven on "Cheers."
>
> Actually, I like being a newcomer on any board - and here's why: I don't know about former skirmishes and I don't have preconceived notions about individual posters. That gives me a clean slate from which I can paint little thumbnail portraits of each poster as I slowly remember their story and start putting their posts together in memory. It's like starting a new book. Quite exciting.
>
> I don't know if any of this drivel I've written is of any use but I thought I would throw it into the mix.
>
> I hope you don't become discouraged and leave. It's one thing to leave because you're too busy or other things are going on in your "real" life - but I'm always saddened when people take off from any message board (not just this one) out of discouragement/disillusionment.
>
> I'll post the long dissertation after I give it one more read-thru.
>
> Best regards,
>
> LeeHi Lee,
You are more than wonderful to have responded to this. You are so gifted verbally. Did you ever, when you were a little girl, see another little girl with a pretty coat, or hair, or whatever, and you were in such awe of them. You knew that you didn't have what they did, and didn't hate them for it, because you were too young to be envious in a hateful way. So whenever this little girl came around you would smile extra big, or give her the one cupcake your mom packed in your lunch just so you could maybe be around her for a few minutes?This is how I feel about people who have a way with words. It amazes me how gifted some people in at the art of conversation, or at writing.
On the sidelines, I will secretly listen while I'm knitting or blankly staring out the window. I listen to how they can take such a trivial, even bland subject, and captivate the others. It'a all in the tone, eyes and mannerisms, I think. You would think that I would somehow pick up these skills by watching. It's like I know what I should do, but when my moment comes I shrivel up or freakily invade.Conversationally, I don't know how you are, but your writing skills blow me away and I promise I don't hate you for it. To get a response from you means that I can briefly participate in the captivating spell your words cast. Gosh, I sound weird, don't I? Maybe it's said better by comparing you to the little girl with perfect ringlets - everyone wants to be near her.
You say you're a loner, though, so I know that you have experienced the isolation and frustration. You seem to be able to relay those feelings so well.
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:06:13
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 18:56:39
"the act of writing itself is a healing process"
Amen. I wasn't the one who said it, but I sure as **** do agree with it, 100%!
Posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 19:23:26
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by whiterabbit on May 14, 2003, at 18:56:39
> WorryGirl - methinks you have a touch of the manic depressive in you. If so...welcome, welcome to our dark little club. Don't be put off by the opium-den atmosphere - take off your shoes, sit down and relax.
>My sister is bipolar, and I always thought I had escaped it, but while living with my abusive boyfriend years ago I somehow may have learned to supress it. I showed signs when married the first time. I treated him badly at times, out of frustration for how badly his parents sometimes treated me. I shocked myself at how mean I could be to him, but so genuinely sweet to everyone else. Nobody else evoked those angry feelings. He took it meekly as I shoveled it out. The longer we were married the more enraged I felt.
> You under-estimate your gifts. Your writing is clear and intelligent. You scoff at being "sweet",
> which means you have the capacity to care deeply about someone else. Which means that, in your correspondance, in the way you relate to others,
> your conversation isn't the usual, "Mememememe and me, and did I tell you about me?" Don't ever let anyone convince you that caring for others is wrong, that you SHOULD be just as competitive and selfish as the next guy. This doesn't leave you defenseless in the rat race, because you don't have to BE in the rat race at all. Step aside, leave the race to the rats. You be sweet, girl.
>> I don't always reply to everyone when they post to me BUT I always appreciate it, I really do, when someone takes the time to answer me. (Every once in awhile I do offend somebody - not too far back, somebody called me a bigot - but those posts are few and far between.) I get support and advice here, and try to give the same in return when I feel I have something to offer. Most importantly - I believe I posted this recently to someone, can't remember who - the act of writing itself is a healing process, as it allows you to organize those thoughts in your head. When someone replies with a kind word, that's a special bonus.
>Well, this is a bonus. I've always appreciated your responses, and as I told Lee, you, too, have a gift with words (as do so many others). You each have your own special style and it works for you.
I think I remember reading that you once were into the Gothic lifestyle before it was really hip? I can see that in you, which is cool, but I also see a soft, sweet side that you may not show on the surface, but it's there in your words.
In the mid 80s I hung out with a girl who convinced me that my best look was black hair and pale skin. It wasn't truly gothic but I had people calling me Morticia or Elvira for a while!
> So don't cut yourself off from that! I can tell you, the way we see ourselves and the way others see us is quite different. We're not flat, one-dimensional beings, we're all multi-faceted as jewels, presenting different sides of ourself to others. This doesn't mean we're deceptive, just complex. For instance, my husband thinks I'm impossibly strange and probably quite mad. (And he does know how to push those buttons that set me off, quite right.) But not everybody has that opinion of me and I will no longer let him convince me that I'm some kind of freak because we're polar opposites...we might be very different, but that doesn't make ME wrong or wierd
> or somehow inferior to him. Just different. Hallalujah for different.
> -GracieI think different or strange is good! I know I've said this somewhere before, but as long as it isn't accompanied by super bad breath and/or b.o., I like weird.
Once, in a conversation with a woman who didn't like me, I said, "Well, I guess I'm just too weird". And she said, "Don't flatter yourself. It takes a few brain cells to be weird". That hurt!
I think it's my meekness that makes me appear dumb sometimes. Since I'm not that way with my husband he can't see it. He sees me as "different in a good way". He says that's why he fell in love with me. That was 8-9 years ago. I wonder if he still feels the same!
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:34:10
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:58:46
Awwww, Dinah, you are so sweet! And that's a good thing! And so are you WorryGirl, et. al.
And yes, I think we are closely related on the soul sisters branch (if you saw my long-*** post to WhiteRabbit you'll know what I mean - or what Brian Weiss means).
I've gotten to the point that I just shake my head and laugh at our similarities! I have a feeling you're in the Midwest (you don't have to say, of course!) - but that's where I fare from as well.
I just feel like I could ride in the tailwind on your therapy and be healed (considering the similarities I've seen).
Regarding you being self-involved? Absolutely not! You are the farthest thing from self-involved!
Listen, when my son was seven years old I didn't think these thoughts! I didn't have time! Like you, I did have these thoughts when I was a kid, but I went years without thinking anything like that.
However, now that my son is older (fifteen) and I "work" at home and I spend so much time alone I'm always having these mini-revelations. 99% of the time they are very self-absorbed revelations, like "my feet make me look like I'm ninety years old" or "should I surprise T. (my husband) and have my bellybutton pierced while he's gone?" (believe me, that's fleeting and it's never going to happen - LOL!).
One little exercise I like to do is remember how differently a place can look from my previous perceptions. i.e. We've lived in this town for almost four years. When I used to visit here, everything looked very different to me than it does now. I liken it to flipping those lenses like they use in an optometrist's office. My son has said that he does this as well. It's comforting (yet scary) to know that there's this being (the kiddo) who thinks and acts so much like I do . . .
I bet some of these feelings are quite universal (has anyone else ever done this?).
Posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:50:00
In reply to Re: Why? » leeran, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 19:01:43
"Girlfriend," you are too nice - but believe me, I'm a goofball in real life. I might be able to spew it out through my fingertips, but when it comes to conversation - I freeze up like a popsicle. And here lately, I don't even want to go out anywhere because my face is so broken out. And THEN, because my hearing is going in my right ear (and left), I have a heck of a time figuring out what people are saying (it's like I'm on a ten-second delay). Pitiful. It really is. One day I sat here and cried like a big baby to my husband because I didn't even think I could write anymore, so you, my darling, have just made my day.
We are probably all so different in "real life." I have met people from this other message board where I've posted and it's always interesting to bring the perceptions together.
To be perfectly honest, I spent WAY too much time writing that post to you the other day and I was kicking my b*tt for it the rest of the evening! So, you see? Your words REALLY hit home for me and I just had to get it all typed out - and then, after I looked it over, I had the icky realization that I was glossing over one section and had to then go back and write the "awful truth."
WorryGirl, you always sound quite real. I have never once thought of you as saccharin sweet, or as my mother would say "a little miss mary sunshine." You paint your life quite beautifully with your words. It isn't easy to type out these painfully honest missals and I admire those who can write of the pain they've felt (or feel) as adults. The angst of my adult years is always the hardest for me to address - in writing, or in solitude.
Okay, I will go ahead and post the "long one." I really worried that it sounded too "mememememememe-ish," so I just tabled it - but I'll let it fly before leaving the computer.
Posted by fallsfall on May 14, 2003, at 23:25:28
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by leeran on May 14, 2003, at 19:50:00
WorryGirl,
I'm new to this board, but your posts makes me think of sincere issues that are being seriously examined. So when I see your name on a post, that gives the post a positive review.
I'm so tired (12:18) - time to go to bed, but I wanted to read the responses to your post (and it took a while). The others have done better than I will - my memory is so bad that I can only talk in generalities.
You said that you don't feel that you are "good" enough to post to this board. I'm doing some self-esteem work in therapy right now and it is becoming clear to me that there are many times where I value my traits significantly lower than where others do. My guess is that this could be true for you, too. I haven't figured out what to do about it (because I think that I am right and they are all wrong). It has been instructive to see a friend of mine do the same thing.
You are so brave to start this thread rather than simply disappear. And I'm glad that you did, because I don't want you to disappear.
Posted by Greg on May 15, 2003, at 7:47:52
In reply to Re: Why? » Greg, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2003, at 18:02:33
Awesome Dinah! Its kinda like having my own personal cyber-bodyguard!
I think I post the way I do because I come from a physically abusive background. My therapist told me once that at one point in my life I had one of two choices to make, basically become the type of person my abuser was, or be a kinder, more gentle person. I chose the latter and I like myself that way. Not to say I don't have a temper, I am Irish after all :).
The biggest trouble I have posting is that I think so clearly about what I want to say, but I have this amazing mental block (what other kind is there?) when it comes to transferring my thoughts onto to paper or here. It's been my experience that many, not all, alcoholics (not trying to label anyone here)have a tendancy to be very scattered in there writings. I've looked at posts I've written days later and thought, "That's not what I meant to say", or realized that I left out many key points. Oh well.
There's been a few that have commented about the "sweetness" of my posts, but only one who was nasty about it. I just consider the source. I do appreciate your kind words about it, it means a great deal to me. I am trying to post more and will continue to do so. Worry Girl's post just really hit home for me and I don't want her to go thru what I have. She seems like such a good person, everyone here does and I want to get to know you all better.
Thanks for making me feel more comfortable. You're OK in my book!
Greg
> Greg, Who on earth told you such a thing about your posts? Let me at 'em, let me at 'em!!!!
>
> Your posts seem to have just the right touch to me. They seem like you. And you is pretty good. Everyone has a different style of posting. And each style is enjoyable in its own way.
>
> But why would anyone want to make you feel self conscious about your posts? And why would you trust the judgement of someone who would want to make you feel self conscious? (Sorry if I've just insulted your best friend or something.)
>
> Please don't let negative judgements of your posts, your own or someone else's, keep you from sharing yourself on the board. It's too precious a gift to let embarassment keep you from sharing.
Posted by Greg on May 15, 2003, at 8:15:54
In reply to Re: Why? » Greg, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:47:28
Hi WG,
Wow! A lot of responses, that's very cool! I'm glad you're feeling better about everything. Sometimes all it takes is to just air your feelings about things and they can get better. This is a good group of people and I know they'll be as supportive as they can. But now that you're one of the cool kids, can I still hang out with you? :)
God, it seems like we all have addictions to something, alcohol, drugs, food. One would think that having depression would be enough, don't ya think? Is it true what they say (who are THEY anyway) that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger?
I used to spend a lot of time on this and a few other boards, way too much time. So I started limiting my time and the times of day I could visit them and it's worked out real well. I spend some time in the morning (about an hour before I start work) and 1 to 2 hours in the afternoon when I get home from work, and then the computer is used strictly for my home business only. It takes a lot of willpower which I don't have a lot of, but it seems to be working so far.
Well, we know that the Greg that you knew wasn't me...If you saw me at the beach, I wasn't playing volleyball or swimming, I was laying on a towel, under an umbrella most likely doing homework. I did get all A's and B's in high school. Didn't much help me be popular though. You know Greg was about the most popular name for a boy when I was born, but you hardly ever hear of anyone naming ther sons that now. My son's middle name is Gregory. I couldn't stand the thought of him being called Greg Jr. Yuck!
OK, I've rambled enough for one morning. I hope you have a good or at least tolerable day. And again, I'm glad you got lots of responses. Sometimes it just takes awhile to fit in, but I know you'll be fine!
Take care sweetie,
GregP.S. If you ever want to email me, it's gbwhite at attbi dot com.
> Hi Greg,
> Thanks for being so, uh, sweet! Among other things, I like sweet stuff (sweet genuine people, sweet foods, and sweet deals).
>
> I'm feeling better already. Just responding is helping to relieve my despondency.
>
> I admire you for your dedication to stay away from alcohol. If I wasn't addicted to food (I'm bulimic), I know I would be an alcoholic. I binge drink very occasionally, but food seems to be #1.
>
> I feel silly about how dependent I realize I've become on this board. My need for approval always looms in the background of my life.
>
> Thanks, sweetie. My first major crush's name was Greg. He was beautiful. I was in the swimming pool my freshman year and there he was, with those muscles rippling and the blue eyes twinkling. Isn't it funny how we like (or dislike) certain names because of the memories we associate with them?
Posted by Greg on May 15, 2003, at 8:17:15
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Greg on May 15, 2003, at 8:15:54
Posted by coral on May 15, 2003, at 9:07:42
In reply to Why?, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 16:18:38
Dear WorryGirl,
There are times I only open my mouth to exchange feet! Talk about social skills LOL
Be yourself. You're the only one who can. You're gentle and that is such a truly rare trait in this world.
There are good people here and you're one of them. Like others, I think I'm a major thread-killer. Let me respond and poof... the thread dies. It bothered me until I saw a couple of others post the same thing.
I'm glad you're here!
Coral
Posted by WorryGirl on May 15, 2003, at 10:08:42
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by coral on May 15, 2003, at 9:07:42
> Dear WorryGirl,
>
> There are times I only open my mouth to exchange feet! Talk about social skills LOL
>
> Be yourself. You're the only one who can. You're gentle and that is such a truly rare trait in this world.
>
> There are good people here and you're one of them. Like others, I think I'm a major thread-killer. Let me respond and poof... the thread dies. It bothered me until I saw a couple of others post the same thing.
>
> I'm glad you're here!
>
> Coral
Coral,
Thanks for your response. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with foot in the mouth disease. Today I feel better about everything (how could I not with so many genuinely concerned responses) but a bit silly, too, for making a deal over it. Things are such a big deal when I can't stop thinking about them.If I had as many friends in school as I do on this site, I might have had a shot at Ms. Popularity (lol).
Thanks again and you all are so great :)
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 15, 2003, at 10:13:53
In reply to Re: Why? » Eddie Sylvano, posted by WorryGirl on May 14, 2003, at 17:39:05
> I thought I was making a friend or two among another group of women, and asked the women for her phone number and casually mentioned us taking our kids to the zoo, and she looked at me as if I belonged in the zoo, and took my # in that same way women do when strange men give them their #s, after which they quickly dispose of it in the garbage can (if they're nice enough to even take it).
---------------That sucks. I feel like I can understand your frustration, though. I've pretty much given up on trying to make people my friends. It's pretty rare that I meet someone that I want to hang out with, anyway. Still, in high school I was in much the same boat. I'd hang out with someone off and on, think they like me, suggest we do something, and get the cold shoulder. I also got a lot of people who would be my friend in private, but would disparage me once other people were around. It's disheartening, and I learned to stop trying. Maybe that's bad, but it doesn't bother me. I just can't relate to most people, and vice versa.
>I can tell from reading many of the posts that these people have formed an e-mail friendship outside of this board
---------------I guess different people expect different things from the board. I've never wanted to email anyone privately, or focus on any one person. I just like reading and posting comments or questions when I feel inclined. I'm sure that a lot of other people have a casual relationship with this board as well, posting and reading sporadically, so I wouldn't get too upset if you feel like someone's ignoring you. They probably just haven't had time to respond.
> But I'm afraid that I am developing a dependency on this board. It's so cool that no one knows my real name or what I look like.
------------------It's nice to be able to talk openly with people, and not worry about word getting out to your social circle. Another reason why it may be best to keep messages on the board, and not get entangled with more intimate relationships.
> These people owe me nothing, and I love them all, I really do. I don't want to sound sappy, but there is not one person here that I couldn't find something admirable about, except for myself.
> You are kind, so kind, and I cry as I write this, because I've been kicked around so much most of my life, that now, when I'm not, and I want to sit back and enjoy life, no one is interested.
------------------You're not a bad or worthless person. Believe me. I mean, there are plenty of people on the boards that I probably never read postings from, due to either having read them before (and not feeling that I had anything to offer), or just lack of time. I do tend to read your posts, though, because they're very expressive, and I can relate to a lot of what you talk about.
> Have you ever cried off and on for days? Have you ever gone off on a rage over nothing? Have you ever felt that if you faded from this world, aside from your family, no one would notice? Have you ever felt like whatever you said, or how you said it was done in the worst way possible?
-------------------I'm sure most everyone here has had feelings of worthlessness and loneliness that overwhelmed them. I'd be surprised if most of us haven't contemplated suicide within the last couple years. You read these people's posts... do you think that they're worthless people? Of course not, and you're no different.
> I know I'm not the only one who feels like this, but it seems like most people don't have the lack of social skills to go along with it.
-------------------Well, we all have our handicaps. The sad truth is that we're not all treated equally. I'm sure there are overweight people here who get ignored because of the way they look, shy people who get ignored for seeming aloof, depressed people who don't feel up to participating in life, and on and on. If you're not born chatty, attractive, and motivated, you either have to work harder to try to be like that, or find a state of being that's natural and comfortable for you. You can't control other people, and it's probably a waste to worry about it. Just be the person that you want to be, and feel sorry for anyone who doesn't appreciate that. They don't get to be your friend, and they wouldn't have made a good one anyway. I've had maybe 3 real friends in my 30 years, but they've been the best, and I didn't have to pretend anything when I was around them. That's what I want from a friend.
Posted by whiterabbit on May 15, 2003, at 10:22:41
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by coral on May 15, 2003, at 9:07:42
Coral-
If you're a thread-killer, it's only because you said exactly the right thing and there's nothing else to add.
Don't be silly girl I always read your posts.
-Gracie
Posted by leeran on May 15, 2003, at 10:29:20
In reply to Re: Why? » WorryGirl, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 15, 2003, at 10:13:53
Eddie said: "depressed people who don't feel up to participating in life"
Eddie. Bingo. What an excellent way to describe "it" ("it" = depression = that thoughtless thug who sits on my chest and taunts me unmercifully about not being able to get up, and when I do - follows me around the house and cuts me off at the pass).
Weird. I just remembered that I had a dream about being "cut off at the pass" right before I woke up this morning.
I was driving down a hill and there was a funeral procession in the lane to the left of me. I couldn't hear the loud speaker of a cop car behind me, admonishing me to change lanes so he pulled in front of me and literally cut me off, hitting the corner of my car and driving me into the curb. Then, he got out of the car and berated me for interrupting a funeral procession - and not listening to his loudspeaker warning, and I kept asking "who is going to pay for the damage to my car?" and he said "you may have to pay for it because it was, after all, all your fault."
Then, the phone rang (thank goodness) and it was my husband calling from the airport.
Whew. What an anxiety dream!
Again, I liked your words about depression. This morning (just a few minutes ago) after taking my son to school I thought "how am I going to stay awake and get everything done" (and I'm on Adderall AND Wellbutrin in the a.m.).
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