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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by noa on May 29, 2003, at 17:59:12
I find my boss being personally rather intrusive---bad boundaries.
Just curious. At your workplaces, if you are out sick, what expectations do your bosses have in terms of your availability to speak by phone during the day?
My boss ain't happy with me just leaving a message. She is extremely frustrated that I don't answer my phone (I tend to keep the ringer off and check messages when I feel like it). (BTW, I felt like telling her that it is none of her business whether I even OWN a phone or not!!)
And, my colleagues and I have just been instructed that if we're going to be out sick, we need to call her at home in the morning.
In this discussion today, she wanted me to call her at home in the morning, or at work, at a time when I would know that she would be at her desk, not just leave her a message "at dawn" (I tend to call in sick first thing in the morning, which is on the early side--maybe I should call her at home then! I know it is earlier than when she probably wakes up!!). So I said that that was asking a lot for a person who is sick enough to miss work to have to time themselves to catch the supervisor at the desk (and not on another phone line, of course). So she modified the demand to, "so, leave a message and give a time period when you will be available by phone."
Thing is she and other managers there have this totally distorted view of what is urgent and would require my input during the day. (btw--the managers' inability to triage what is really urgent causes other problems at work, too, as you might imagine)
To back up their demands, they both (immediate boss and next level up boss--don't ask--totally wierd hierarchy) cited their spouses' businesses, where people out sick communicate several times a day with the office. I can't argue them on those points--that may be the expectation at their spouses' businesses but I really don't know if it is considered standard to expect in most places of employment.
I know that in some settings, it would be reasonable--ie, those that handle really urgent matters. But for the most part this doesn't apply.
I know how I feel about this, but just curious how common it is for employers to expect live communication and/or consultation during the day when an employee is sick.
BTW--I suggested that if they have an urgent matter, leave a detailed message about it. That way, when I check messages, I will know if it is urgent. AND, I can respond appropriately even if unable to reach her directly by phone--ie I can email or leave info by voice mail that would help them deal with the matter.
The kicker is this: Immediate boss said that when I was out she was worried about me and was ready to call my brother (ie, emergency contact). I said, "while I appreciate your concern, I don't see why you would need to contact him. I called in sick each of the 3 days I was going to be out, and called in before my time to report for duty. It wasn't like I was missing." She then said, well, it was so many days--a Friday, the weekend, and two more days) and I was worried--not talking directly to you made me wonder if you were ok, etc. etc." So I said again the appreciate the concern thing, etc. but "you are my supervisor, not my friend. It isn't your role to check on me when I'm sick." At which point she conceded this part of the discussion.
But this is so indicative of her bad boundaries. I probably rubbed a wound by saying "you are not my friend" as I'm sure she wants to be everyone's friend, but it needed to be said.
About the other part--being avaialbe to consult, I said I understand what they are asking and need to think about how to resolve this.
It is really all a control issue. She is a control freak.
The irony of it all is that if she were any kind of competent supervisor who helped create a real team atmosphere and fostered my trust in her, I might want to try to comply with such a request, to the extent possible depending on the nature of my illness, of course. But she is intrusive and very bossy--bullyish in fact--and sets up these commands/demands that I (and my colleagues) feel very contrary to.
But I'm curious about what other peoples' bosses expect.
Thanks.
Posted by paxvox on May 29, 2003, at 18:24:19
In reply to More annoying boss stuff, blah blah blah..., posted by noa on May 29, 2003, at 17:59:12
Interesting stuff there. My first question is: are you an hourly employee or a salaried one? If you are an hourly, she has no right to call you at home if you are sick unless she plans on paying you extra (there are a FEW exceptions to that rule, depending on the nature of your business). I assume this is a private company? Strangely, it sounds a lot like my GOVERNMENT job, and I am the supervisor who gets called by both my immediate boss as well as my "subordinate" employees if I happen to be out sick (or even after hours any other day or my days off). You have a right to your privacy, but your boss DOES have a right to correct your attendance if it is not acceptable. We have written sickleave policies that are applied to everyone. They set limits for what requires medical or other documentation, etc..as well as one's rights under the FMLA laws. Of course as a Federal government agency, the rules are a bit different than private industry rules. Still, everyone has a right to privacy concerning medical information (that is Federal law)so I would ask for the written attendance rules for your place of employment from your boss. That way, there's little room for error or misunderstanding.
PAX
Posted by Dinah on May 29, 2003, at 18:54:38
In reply to More annoying boss stuff, blah blah blah..., posted by noa on May 29, 2003, at 17:59:12
I am totally unqualified to comment. I work at such a small office that everyone feels free to call anyone when they're sick or on vacation or whatever. The only way to assure that you won't be called is to not leave a number where you can be reached.
A friend of mine who works in a similar position in a similar-sized company was called when she was in labor!
Posted by stjames on May 29, 2003, at 20:07:09
In reply to Re: More annoying boss stuff, blah blah blah..., posted by paxvox on May 29, 2003, at 18:24:19
If you are hourly, you need to be on the clock
if you are working. Period.I managed for 7 years, & it was totally unexceptable
to just call and leave a message. Staff had to speak to management if they were reporting in sick. I think it is reasonable for a number of reasons.Can you inlist your docs help in this ? Have him fax a note or something, just to get them off your back ?
Posted by mair on May 29, 2003, at 21:33:17
In reply to Re: More annoying boss stuff, blah blah blah..., posted by stjames on May 29, 2003, at 20:07:09
I work at a small office so my experience might not be typical. Our employees very frequently leave a message on the answering machine so we don't find out someone is ill until the office is open. But really, someone is usually there by 7:30 or 8 and if we found out someone was going to be sick earlier, there's probably very little anyone could do about it anyway. I think people call in because they wake up early, realize that they're too sick to work, and then call in to leave a message so they can go back to bed. It's only a problem if it seems to be abused. Not infrequently our office manager might call the absent person at home later on, but really just to find out how likely it is that he or she might be out a second day - at least then we can try to line up a temp.
If I'm sick, my secretary will sometimes call me, but she's pretty good about only calling if a question arises that only I can address, and unless I've told her it's ok for others to call me, she's pretty zealous about keeping people away. I think this is pretty much the practice employed by everyone in my office.
Having sick employees is always an inconvenience, but in my office we would really rather prefer that people who are contagious stay home than that they come in and infect the rest of the office.
Mair
Posted by fallsfall on May 29, 2003, at 21:35:57
In reply to Re: More annoying boss stuff, blah blah blah..., posted by stjames on May 29, 2003, at 20:07:09
In my working days I was a software engineer. Leaving a voicemail or email was plenty. But either your boss or co-workers might call during the day if they had a question. Usually, they didn't try too hard to figure it out before calling. You got really funny looks when you came back to work if they tried to call and you weren't home.
P.S. They also called on nights and weekends.
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