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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on November 18, 2003, at 7:18:28
I know this is a heavy topic...and I am sorry if it causes distress. I was just thinking, though, that maybe the Taboos against suicide play a role in our evolution, causing us to carry on instead of surrender to defeat? I am not trying to argue the 'value' of suicide, and am not vehemently pro or against it, but just saying that the general societal Taboos might be selective values passed on through evolution. Again, I am not arguing how 'bad' or 'good' the concept of suicide is, so please keep that in mind. What do you guys think?
Jay
Posted by Susan J on November 18, 2003, at 8:44:28
In reply to Taboos about suicide play a needed role???, posted by jay on November 18, 2003, at 7:18:28
> I know this is a heavy topic...and I am sorry if it causes distress. I was just thinking, though, that maybe the Taboos against suicide play a role in our evolution, causing us to carry on instead of surrender to defeat? I am not trying to argue the 'value' of suicide, and am not vehemently pro or against it, but just saying that the general societal Taboos might be selective values passed on through evolution. Again, I am not arguing how 'bad' or 'good' the concept of suicide is, so please keep that in mind. What do you guys think?
>
> Jay<<I think the taboo against suicide is more a societal issue and has its roots deep in a Judeo/Christian ethic. I only bring that up because it's what I know. I don't know what other religions say, although I do think there are religious practices where suicide is honorable.
A lot of moral judgements were made early in our history to help the human species procreate and survive since so many things killed us off. It was amoral for a human to take his/her own life since it was rough to keep us on the planet anyway.
Susan
Posted by Dinah on November 18, 2003, at 9:40:11
In reply to Taboos about suicide play a needed role???, posted by jay on November 18, 2003, at 7:18:28
I think taboos against suicide play both an important societal role and an important evolutionary one. In fact, I think most taboos play an important societal role. They put a step between our impulses and our acting out on those impulses. That's what civilization is all about.
Posted by jay on November 19, 2003, at 17:22:00
In reply to Taboos about suicide play a needed role???, posted by jay on November 18, 2003, at 7:18:28
This is sorta the 'flipside' to my original post...
Yes, indeed many religions and societies had/have taboos about suicide. Again, taking a "practical" look, I can understand, but the moral part of me feels bothered that this is like a second slap in the face for someone who already felt "excluded" and all alone from the rest of the world. What I think would be needed is reconciliation, compassion, the kind of things that could make the family of the person who committed suicide feel stronger, and prevent future hopeless suicide in that family and community. Besides, as shown in the excellent book "Noonday Demon" , the author mentions the Greek Church taboo, and how it doesn't really result in less suicides, but a larger number of "underreported" suicides. It's like...I have this 10-15 percent of me that believes in restraint, and not 'giving in', but the rest is full of compassion for someone who feels that it is their only answer, and it sometimes may be, that is the only answer to relief. We are still very far from remedying even the symptoms of most mental illness permanently.
On another note....I also answer this question as someone who used to be this complete positive optimistic. I was very adamant to people that no matter how bad, you just have to "pull yourself through it". That is, until the nightmare of losing my child and future wife happened. Then, *especially* for the first few years afterwards, I honestly didn't care about anything, and had lost all of that powerful zest that I used to possess. That carried on very strongly until about this past year (touch wood!), when I started to have a few more moments of "truth, beauty, and peace", as one writer calls it. Before then, if I had o.d'ed on coke and booze, whose trap I had fallen in to, that would have really been just a 'neglected' suicide. Not much different then that and putting a gun to my head. So, I guess all's I really wanted to say, is that (I think you guys know what I am saying) we should shelve some of the heavier parts of taboo and stigma of suicide, as we come to be more enlightened about the topic. I am sorry for rambling on...as it just hit me kinda hard today.
Best, peace and hope as always,
Jay
This is the end of the thread.
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