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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2004, at 22:54:27
In reply to Re: Fluoxetine and Alcohol--please help, posted by inthegloaming on February 25, 2004, at 2:43:14
>
> > Sounds like you tried your best to voice your displeasure about it despite your dazed state. AND since the friend knew your stance on sexual stuff before that point, that makes it even worse. What they did to you was definitely wrong anyway, and even more so after what you just clarified, and at the very least you should not call them your "friend" anymore. Someone who does that once (and knew you were against it like they did) will probably try it again if they think they can get away with it in the future.
> >
>
> dammit, it's so hard! my best friend says that nobody's at fault, as we were both drunk/out of it and i didn't say 'no.' but i feel like... i feel like if she knew what the deal was going into it... oh god, i don't know. it's so hard.
>
> > In the meantime, you might try getting some counseling/therapy
>
> i actually have a therapist. we do phone sessions, as i'm at school now. she's great, she really is. i'm going to talk to her about this.
>
> <I was raped in high school and I didnt get help until a few years after the fact. My experience should have warranted me pressing criminal charges, but i was too overwhelmed by it all to do anything at the time.
>
> this wasn't rape; it didn't get that far, thank god. i keep wanting to excuse her, cos she didn't mean it to be malicious or anything, but... i mean, SHOULD i just drop it?! i can't seem to make a descision either way.
>
> >Talk it out with people and if it will make you feel better to take some sort of action, go for it. It's good to see that you are dealing with it now, instead of just keeping it bottled up and suffering.
> >
>
> talking has just made me confused. so many people say so many different things and then i doubt my stance and blah blah blah... man. i don't know. i keep saying that. dammit. it's late. i'm frustrated. with her, with myself, with my friends...
> siiigh.
> thanks for your help, though! your words mean a lot.
>
>
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 26, 2004, at 21:50:45
In reply to Re: Fluoxetine and Alcohol « inthegloaming, posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2004, at 22:54:27
Hello.
Some words may be splatted as triggers.My personal opinion is that when a person is incapacitated, no-one should take advantage of them. You have every right to be upset.
Depending on the laws in your state, the event, as you described it could be considered a sexual assault. In my state, NH, it could be so interpreted. Sexual assault is not the same thing as r*pe.
I volunteered for some time as a r*pe crisis counselor, and what I said above is what I would have told a caller. I would have also told them that they were not at all at fault. You were not at all at fault. You have nothing at all to be ashamed of.
We weren't allowed to tell someone how to deal with their medications, but I think that I would like to offer some things from my experience.
First, In my own case, I have found that antidepressants do not mix with alcohol. Not only can they have unpredictable effects when used together, but alcohol can VERY QUICKLY make me depressed. In my case, I wind up doing things, going places, and feeling quite differently from what I would have if I hadn't been drinking. I've decided that if I want to stay stable, I don't drink.
Please know that I'm not trying to tell you what to do; I'm only saying what my experience is. You'll have to decide for yourself what works for you.
I think you're very brave for discussing your experience here. It's important to be able to talk to people who aren't judgemental. Too many people blame the survivor, perhaps to hide from the truth that there are too many violent and evil people in the world.
You weren't to blame. You did nothing wrong. You have the right to pursue or not any action that you feel you need. Please take care of yourself. Please do what you need to feel comfortable and at peace. You might also want to call your local sexual assault crisis line. They can talk to you longer and help you understand where the lines are and how to stay safe.
I'm sorry that this happened to you. You didn't deserve it. You did nothing that warranted the behavior of the other person. You aren't dirty, you aren't bad. You are just someone who was taken advantage of. You are someone who has a right to every single feeling you are feeling right now.
Take care of you,
((((((((((inthegloaming)))))))))))Dee.
Posted by inthegloaming on February 28, 2004, at 9:58:38
In reply to Re: Fluoxetine and Alcohol, posted by deirdrehbrt on February 26, 2004, at 21:50:45
> My personal opinion is that when a person is incapacitated, no-one should take advantage of them. You have every right to be upset.this is true... that's the crappy part. what everyone keeps saying, though, is that she was drunk too, blah blah, not in her right mind... the worst part for me is that she knew about my touch-issues and i'd had talks with her about previous events kinda like this one (one happened back at home--wasn't as extensive but still scary) and i'd told her that sometimes i was afraid something had happened to me when i was little and just didn't remember... yet she still tried to do stuff with me anyway and continued to do so when i was obviously not participating.
> Depending on the laws in your state, the event, as you described it could be considered a sexual assault.
but i didn't say 'no....' if i'd said it she'd have stopped. is it still assault then?
> what I said above is what I would have told a caller. I would have also told them that they were not at all at fault. You were not at all at fault. You have nothing at all to be ashamed of.
but i should have said something... should have said no... i just... well, my doctor said i kind of dissassociated myself away and that it was easier with the alchohol in me. ugh. dunno.
> I'm sorry that this happened to you. You didn't deserve it. You did nothing that warranted the behavior of the other person. You aren't dirty, you aren't bad. You are just someone who was taken advantage of. You are someone who has a right to every single feeling you are feeling right now.
> Take care of you,
> ((((((((((inthegloaming)))))))))))thank you so much, dee. i can't tell you what it means to me that you wrote all this. so... so thank you, i guess, is all i can say.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on February 28, 2004, at 20:46:10
In reply to Re: Fluoxetine and Alcohol, posted by inthegloaming on February 28, 2004, at 9:58:38
There is one issue that you talked about that I think you should hear.
The way you describe your condition, you weren't in a position to say no, or yes with any real idea of the outcome. That's what happens when we get ourselves into a mess that we weren't ready for. If you hadn't been in that state, you would have easily been able to say no.
It doesn't matter why a person is incapacitated, whether it's from drinking, drugs, illness, whatever. The point is that you shouldn't have been taken advantage of.
People might say that the person who committed the assault was drunk too, so the fault should be shared. That argument won't hold water with a court. Not usually, at least. If someon gets behind a wheel when drunk, they can't claim impaired judgement. You weren't at fault. You weren't at fault. You weren't at fault. Don't listen to anyone who tells you were.
I had an example tonight that involved my daughter (9 years old). We were doing some woodburning for a craft today. At supper, with my parents, she had a bowl of icewater. My family being too religious, said that her godmother should pray to her grandfather and the burn would go away. After this prayer, her finger wasn't better. She has a small blister. My parents and brother kept telling her she didn't need the ice, the burn was gone and it didn't hurt anymore. I asked if it hurt, and she said yes. At one point, my brother took her Ice and dumped it in the sink. I got her more ice, and had a talk to her about invalidation.
The point is that we can become convinced that we were in the wrong if we keep buying into the lies of the culture. There is no rule that says that if you for whatever reason don't say no, that it means that you agreed to whatever happened to you. What happened was wrong. It doesn't matter what you did or didn't say. You were wronged and it's not your fault.
Dee.
Posted by inthegloaming on March 13, 2004, at 1:37:03
In reply to Re: Fluoxetine and Alcohol, posted by deirdrehbrt on February 28, 2004, at 20:46:10
> The way you describe your condition, you weren't in a position to say no, or yes with any real idea of the outcome.a lot of people i know say that this doesn't matter, that we were both at fault. there were some things i did kinda say no to, like i pushed her away but they were things that kinda broke through my fog.
i still don't know what to do. i'm really angry and hurt by it and it's hard to get my point across because so many people don't think it's a big deal. what i hate so much is that she did all this stuff even though she knew how i feel about sexual advances and that i don't like her like that to begin with. she's really really sorry but i'm still so upset...so... i don't know. so something. so angry that we live in a world where people can do that... where when someone is flat on their back mumbling about being in 'the black place' and that they're not 'there' that means they're fair game... and that just because someone is unresponsive means that the other person can keep going... it just makes me sick inside.
.
> It doesn't matter why a person is incapacitated, whether it's from drinking, drugs, illness, whatever. The point is that you shouldn't have been taken advantage of.
> People might say that the person who committed the assault was drunk too, so the fault should be shared. That argument won't hold water with a court.really? i've heard that, but... it makes sense and it doesn't make sense.
i don't know, i'm really confused. ugh. but thanks for all your help--i really appreciate it.g.
Posted by pegasus on March 15, 2004, at 13:50:05
In reply to Flox and Alc.--Was this Abuse?deirdehbrt, posted by inthegloaming on March 13, 2004, at 1:37:03
Maybe it'll help to look at it this way: What you decided to do was drink while you were taking fluoxetine. What your "friend" decided to do was drink and then sexually assault you in a way that you had previously communicated to her was scary to you, while you were in an altered state, and using body language that was not cooperative. You are responsible only for your altered state. She is responsible for her altered state and the pain she inflicted on you.
Saying "no" is no magic wand. If she was waiting for you to say no, then that's a rule that she made up. You don't have to say no for someone's unwanted advances to be an assault. You didn't say yes, either did you? She should have asked for a yes. It sounds to me like you communicated no in lots of ways: previous conversations, lack of cooperation, being really out of it. The fact that she continued on in spite of all of these things means that what happened was her decision, and therefore her responsibility. Maybe her judgment was impaired as well, but within her impaired judment she assaulted you. That is definitely not ok! In fact, it's illegal in most states.
Please take good care of yourself. I agree that calling a local sex assault hotline might be helpful for you. You can talk to those folks confidentially. You deserve support in this. I hope you are able to find out something that feels best for you to do in this situation.
- p
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