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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by smokeymadison on May 7, 2004, at 22:35:05
so i decided that i really had to have a dog a few days ago. i live in an apartment with two cats, which should have been enough. but i had to have a puppy. my boyfriend is going to be working this summer from 7:30 am to 9:30 pm and i was going to be very lonely. it took my about 6 hours to talk my boyfriend into letting me get the puppy. i spent the rest of my money on it. didn't even have enough to pay the electric bill this month--had to borrow some.
the day after i got it, freaked out, got very depressed, felt like i couldn't handle it. the little guy (a beagle) needed constant attention. i felt trapped, like i couldn't breathe. so i wound up fighting w/ my boyfriend for two days to take him back. he didn't want to take him back to the pet store, had become so attached to him. what is wrong with me that i felt nothing but dread over the dog?
so now the dog is gone, and i miss him a lot now. my emotions are so screwed up. we traded the dog for a snake--which doesn't move very much, since we couldn't get my money back. i just don't understand why i felt like i did when i had the dog. it was a mixture of numbness and dread. any thoughts?
Posted by finelinebob on May 8, 2004, at 0:03:39
In reply to insanity all over a dog, posted by smokeymadison on May 7, 2004, at 22:35:05
Why did you feel that way when you had the dog?
Dogs do that to people. They need us. They look up to us. They're not independent like cats or snakes (sorry cat people, but the comparison was too tempting! ). But they also take you under their protection and care. You're one of the pack. They demand a lot, but they give back even more.
Puppies are even more demanding. They do everything they can to make you mad but they do it so innocently. It's so infurriating! I mean, infuriating! ACK!
Worst of all -- they love unconditionally.
Can you accept that? If a dog steals your heart, it is so damn hard living up to the standard they set. You have to be responsible. You have to be attentive. You have to be stern and forceful, but loving. And if you haven't taken care of a dog as an adult before, there is no way you can prepare yourself for just how demanding that can be.
It's hard enough when all you have to worry about is the dog. You've got a boyfriend and bills and cats and living in an apartment ... and you have yourself to deal with, as well. Once you see just how much care a puppy needs, it can come down like a 16 ton weight.
So, I don't think your feelings were out-of-line or unreasonable. Did you get blind-sided by all the responsibility you had all of a sudden? That can be very intimidating if no one prepared you for it.
Or, since you miss him a lot now, was it your feelings for the pup coming on so fast? When I decided to adopt from the ASPCA, I was told by a friend that you don't choose the dog, the dog chooses you. And that, for me, was just what happened. Every dog in the shelter wanted to go home with me, but there was this one shepherd/husky mix that picked me out. I wanted a lab, but Pokie trapped me with one big puppy-eyed look. I supposedly had a choice -- I could walk away free or I could take Pokie home, but she had already made up my mind for me.
The responsibility of care is intimidating, but nowhere near as intimidating as realizing you've lost your heart to a six month-old that isn't even a member of your species. So, I can't tell you which is worse -- living up to the responsibility or to the love. But I hope that now, since you've had a taste of it and maybe know what you'll be facing, you decide you're up to it again someday.
cheers, flb
ps. right now, I have a German Shepherd named Leyna. She's had the misfortune of living through 2.5 of the worst years of my life. But I can't begin to imagine how much worse that time would have been for me if it wasn't for what Leyna brings to my life. Imagine having a friend who, through her friendship, makes **you** a better person. That's a ridiculous thing to ask or expect from a person, but it comes so naturally to dogs. Believing that you deserve such a friend is hard, but it makes anything else possible, any problem surmountable.
Sorry for the soliloquy ... but you just HAD to go and post something about dogs, didn't you smokey? =^)
Posted by holymama on May 8, 2004, at 8:12:53
In reply to warning: dog-lover responding!, posted by finelinebob on May 8, 2004, at 0:03:39
o.k., I'm a person already piled high with responsibility -- I have three kids ages 5, 4 and 2 and I have three cats, now one has just had 5 kittens, a big mortgage to pay...I have to be all grown up. But getting a puppy in December made me feel the same panic that you felt! Puppys are a lot of responsibility, and they are a bit trapping. It's the first step before having children, they say. You have to let them out, play with them, watch that they don't eat your shoes, feed them, not leave them alone for too long which seriously changes your social life. I paniced because even though I have no social life at this point, adding one more serious responsibility was adding more chaos into my life. But I have to tell you a secret; the panic goes away. Once you start to fall in love with that puppy, you soon realize that the joy you get from it is worth the hassle of keeping it. And then the panic goes away, and you end up in love with this funny little dog.
Imagine the panic that sets in when you have your first child...and they want you to take it home with you from the hospital...and you can't give it back to the pet store...:)!!! But somehow, with all of that panic and responsibility, I've had three kids, and my pet assortment keeps growing and growing...
the point of my story is that, panic over a puppy is normal, especially if it was your first one. WHen you feel ready to get one again, just realizing that that feeling is normal, even a mother of three kids with a menagerie of pets has felt that same emotion, you might ride it out, and let yourself fall in love with it.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2004, at 11:24:09
In reply to Re: warning: dog-lover responding!, posted by holymama on May 8, 2004, at 8:12:53
> It's the first step before having children, they say. You have to let them out, play with them, watch that they don't eat your shoes, feed them, not leave them alone for too long which seriously changes your social life.
This is a big reason my husband and I got our dog. If we could survive housebreaking a puppy together, we could begin to consider having a baby. Still in the considering stage, though, and the dog is about seven now, I think. :(
gg
Posted by smokeymadison on May 8, 2004, at 11:48:53
In reply to Puppies before babies » holymama, posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2004, at 11:24:09
i think i panicked because of all the responsibility i felt over suddennly having a puppy to take care of. and one of the main reasons i wanted to take him back to the pet store was that i was afraid that i would get attached and then sometime in the future, we would have to get rid of him. cats i don't worry about so much. both of my cats are very loving, but they don't really need me near as much as a puppy does.
maybe i was trying to sort of have a kid. i have, in the past, really wanted to have a kid NOW. it has been an obsession. but right now is not a good time (i am in college). so instead, all the sudden i had to have a dog.
thanks for responding, everyone. makes me feel like maybe it wasn't so crazy after all.
Posted by finelinebob on May 8, 2004, at 13:02:41
In reply to Re: Puppies before babies, posted by smokeymadison on May 8, 2004, at 11:48:53
Well, if you still want to get a dog, then you should seriously consider adopting one from a shelter. Not for all of the regular reasons people will say, but because a mature dog may meet your needs better. You'd have to check out the dog carefully, but most shelters would be able to tell you about the dog's past -- whether he's housebroken, has he lived with cats, is he nervous around other people or dogs or animals, that sort of thing.
If you really want a pure breed, then there are pure breed rescue organizations from which you can adopt a dog as well. If you go through a municipal shelter, there may be no charge for adopting, but other shelters and adoption agencies tend to charge a small fee to cover vet bills and shots, $50 - $75 or so.
If you do adopt a dog, tho, you need to be absolutely certain you are ready for one. Bringing a back to a shelter isn't good for the dog, and most rescue groups will only accept a dog back in extreme cases -- they'd rather help you find a new owner and have you foster the dog until then.
One other thing you might want to do, if you REALLY want a dog, is to "borrow" a dog for a weekend. Do you have any friends with a dog you like? Talk to them about whether you can "babysit" the dog for a weekend, to see if you can deal with all th responsibilities. Some people will think you're nuts, but dog people who understand the commitment having a dog is may not just agree, but be willing to "coach" you through it.
hth, flb
Posted by underthecs on May 8, 2004, at 22:28:47
In reply to Re: Puppies before babies, posted by smokeymadison on May 8, 2004, at 11:48:53
i like your screen name, smokey
Posted by shar on May 9, 2004, at 2:04:43
In reply to Re: Puppies before babies, posted by underthecs on May 8, 2004, at 22:28:47
Well, there is no reason to get a dog if you are not ready, smokey. It is a LOT of responsibility, and the best thing is to do at least novice obedience training; I STRONGLY encourage that because then you have a dog that you can welcome as a part of your home.
Dogs are expensive. Vet visits, and any problem can easily go into the $100's of dollars.
And, please forgive me, but I have a huge problem with pet stores who sell pets that most likely come from puppy mills in which momma dog is just continually mated and mated and mated and not cared for, until she is no longer 'useful' (can't have puppies, too weak, tired, sick, whatever) and then killed.
Sorry. Unless you get a dog from the SPCA/local animal shelter or a breeder you know in your area, the puppy is likely from a puppy mill in the midwest. A lot of rescue organizations will buy puppies from pet stores if they conform to the breed standards; just to get them out of there.
A snake can be a good pet. I encourage you to try that out, see how it works. Dogs are a lot of work, and a lot of understanding dog-thinking (pack behavior). Many people don't understand pack behavior, and have no desire, and don't know *why* their dog doesn't do well in their home (because they don't understand the dynamics of the pack).
I think a snake is a good idea.
I obviously have very strong feelings on this topic. Nothing personal; just a lot of experience.
Shar
Posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 3:36:42
In reply to Re: Puppies before babies, posted by shar on May 9, 2004, at 2:04:43
Good thinking about the obedience training, shar ... most people don't realize how much of that training is for the human and not the dog! Doesn't matter how many times I go through it tho -- my dogs always learn better than I do....
Posted by smokeymadison on May 9, 2004, at 11:19:09
In reply to Re: Puppies before babies, posted by underthecs on May 8, 2004, at 22:28:47
thanks underthecs. and everyone, i still miss the dog. but a puppy is too much responsibility right now. so i have decide that if i do get a dog, it will be an older dog from the animal shelter. in my area they charge about 90 to adopt a dog. my boyfriend and i just started really good jobs this summer, so i know that we will be able to afford the dog in a while. we are also looking at renting a house and moving out of this small apartment. i would try to find a place with a backyard where the dog wouldn't have to be on a lease all the time, someplace fenced in. the only thing that might not work is that one of my cats really freaked out about the puppy. she hid under the bed for a couple of days and rarely came out. i had to put food and water under there for her. she is about a year old. is that too old to adjust to an older, calmer dog than a puppy? how long does it take?
Posted by lonelygirl on May 9, 2004, at 20:51:43
In reply to Re: what about a freaked out cat?, posted by smokeymadison on May 9, 2004, at 11:19:09
Hi smokeymadison,
I've been volunteering with a local rescue organization this year. It's not a breed rescue organization -- they rescue all kinds of dogs. Anyway, not all rescue organizations are the same, and I don't know about the ones in your area, but I can tell you about the one where I volunteer...
First of all, they have a web site where there are photos and bios of all the available dogs. When you want to adopt, you fill out an application, which includes information about what qualities you want in a dog. The key with this organization is the "matchmaker." They really try to find a dog that fits your needs -- e.g., size, age, energy level, sociability, etc. In your case, they would probably consider adult dogs who are already housebroken and good with kids (since you are planning on having children in the future).
Also, if there are other animals in the potential adopter's home, they bring the dog for a home visit to make sure the dog gets along with the other animals. The matchmakers are pretty experienced with this kind of thing, so they have a pretty good read on the interactions. I have no idea whether your cat's reaction is "normal" or not, but the matchmakers probably would.
Many rescue organizations (as well as reputable breeders) have a "guarantee" on their animals, and allow you to return them (although of course they discourage this and try to prevent it by making sure the dog is a good match for the adopters). The place where I volunteer gets dogs returned occasionally for various reasons, such as not getting along with the other animals in the house, aggressiveness towards a new baby, etc. As I'm sure you've learned from this experience, it's a good idea to ask about their return policy BEFORE starting the adoption process.
I think if you still want to adopt a dog in the future, it would be beneficial for you to look up some rescue organizations in your area, find out how they go about the matchmaking/adoption process, and what their return policy is. I think rescue organizations often have better information on their dogs than the pound or ASPCA, so they may be more helpful in finding a dog that matches your needs.
One more thing I’d like to mention is crate-training, which can be very beneficial for new dogs, and helps keep them out of trouble when you’re not around!
Posted by spoc on May 10, 2004, at 11:49:53
In reply to insanity all over a dog, posted by smokeymadison on May 7, 2004, at 22:35:05
> the day after i got it, freaked out, got very depressed, felt like i couldn't handle it... what is wrong with me that i felt nothing but dread over the dog?
>
> so now the dog is gone, and i miss him a lot now. my emotions are so screwed up... i just don't understand why i felt like i did when i had the dog. it was a mixture of numbness and dread. any thoughts?-----
Hi,Back to the emotional aspects of getting/having a dog for a minute. The sudden and big responsibility of caring for a dog is of course most key, but there are other nuances of why a person shouldn't do it if they aren't sure they are up to it mentally.
Dogs can be soooo sensitive to your mood, maybe some breeds more than others. I swear, some even take things personally! Such a statement made anywhere except around dog lovers and those familiar with dogs may only be seen as paranoid and delusional, but those of you "in the know" will get it of course. Amongst other behaviors, a dog can kind of seem to blame himself if you are not in the right frame of mind!
I got a toy dog, a Yorkie, a few months before I graduated from college. Shortly after, I ended up going into a rough transitional phase where I was depressed and having a lot of creeping, blanket anxiety. And I moved and went from having a roommate and several other people around sporadically to also play with her, to it just being me (and no yard). She was extremely sweet and adorable but did have that nervous energy and "hypersensitivity" of a toy dog.
Anyway, boy, could she read my moods. She started having "sympathy anxiety attacks." I remember how much it would freak me out even more when I'd be all clammy, trembly and sensing impending doom; and she'd pick up on it and go nuts climbing and clawing and crying all over me, trying to suck some assurance out of me that the world wasn't ending. Don't laugh, it's true, she TOTALLY knew something very bad was going on and that things were out of control, even though I may have only been sitting on the couch trying to watch TV.
I couldn't fake her out -- if I wrapped her up in my arms and stroked her and talked gently and pretended everything was fine, she wouldn't be fooled. I could throw her toys around and she would try to go along with it but ultimately when we'd stop she still knew something was wrong. Shortly after that, I would sometimes realize I hadn't seen her in awhile and go looking for her, and may find her hiding somewhere just shaking like a leaf!
I can't tell you how much, having been consumed with anxiety and self-doubt to begin with, this would almost make me pass out or want to. I felt almost abusive due to my inability to give my dog a sense of peace. (I think I may have had transference -- or counter-transference? -- on my dog, because when I was growing up I felt exactly as she seemed to be feeling!!)
And then what made it worse was that all the things I was supposed to do to get my own life on track at that point -- start a career, get more involved in things -- were things that would take me away from her even more. So by the time I'd get home at night she'd been waiting for me all day, so for her it was supposed to be her long-awaited play time, whereas I just wanted to collapse. This would give her anxiety too, followed by depression!
OK OK so I'm pushing it now, but the point is, of course a person's mood and life stage can impact their dog's happiness and adjustment. And if whatever mood or anxiety problems you have result in you feeling horrible about and being hypersensitive to its effect on others, your dog can become a tremendous source of guilt.
At one point when I had had her for less than a year, I went to visit my family for what turned into a few months. I brought the dog on the plane with me in a carry-on case, and even though she was on sedatives from the vet she was going nuts in there as if she was being killed. But it was against policy for me to let her out of the box. I was consumed with guilt and anxiety and my sympathetic seat-mate couldn't convince me that this didn't all mean I was a horrid, cruel person. I think she and the flight attendants probably wished I would take some of the dog's sedatives myself!
Anyway, my parent's last elderly family dog had just passed away, and they were very very sad and "vulnerable," and immediately took over my dog. And I could see it would be for the best to let them have her, as they wanted. For 16 years she was the grandchild they never got, and she had a nice yard and people to spoil and fawn all over her. But to this day I worry about getting a dog again unless I feel like an emotionally strong and consistent person, and probably also have someone else around a lot who is more of those things than I am!
Posted by lonelygirl on May 10, 2004, at 18:59:39
In reply to Re: insanity all over a dog, posted by spoc on May 10, 2004, at 11:49:53
So true about dogs being sensitive to people’s moods! My dog can always sense when someone is sad or mad or sick, sometimes before the other people can. I often take him in my room with me. When I lose something, if it’s not in the first few places I look, sometimes I get really panicked about it. If my dog is with me and I’m looking for it, I swear, he can tell the instant I start to panic about it (it terrifies him, the poor thing; he goes and hides behind the bed shivering, and then I have to coax him back up on the bed and reassure him that lonelygirl’s not mad at the doggie). If I’m sad, he’ll come over and sit with me and get this concerned look on his little face.
The really funny thing is that he doesn’t usually get scared when we yell at him, but he does when we argue with each other. If he’s doing something bad, we can yell, “Stop it! BAD DOG!” and he will usually just totally ignore us! But if an argument starts between people, he runs and hides under a table, shivering.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on May 10, 2004, at 19:03:39
In reply to Re: insanity all over a dog » spoc, posted by lonelygirl on May 10, 2004, at 18:59:39
A puppy is a handful and for a person stuck at home alone doing it all is really hard...so an idea is a dog in rescue...they are older but not always old...the often are trained and live in foster homes and can give and get love from you....doent matter if you are sad or have emotional issues they understand and just want and want to give love
Posted by finelinebob on May 10, 2004, at 19:08:06
In reply to Re: insanity all over a dog » spoc, posted by lonelygirl on May 10, 2004, at 18:59:39
> If he’s doing something bad, we can yell, “Stop it! BAD DOG!” and he will usually just totally ignore us!
Try growling at him! Well, you don't really have to growl, but just repeat a line of chat, "NO, Fido, bad dog bad bad dog" in a low-pitched, growly sounding voice. It's the tone of voice more than anything that communicates and when people shout, their voices often go higher in pitch, not lower.
I feel so sorry for my Leyna. Her entire life, I've been out of work. I can get too anxious to go for a walk too far from home, and I know she picks up on that. All the same, if it wasn't for how HER emotional state can lift ME up, I'd have a much harder life right now!Sometimes dogs can be good role models for people.
flb
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