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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TexasChic on June 2, 2004, at 12:31:21
Well, I went on my weekend trip I told some of you about. It was going pretty well when one of my friends got drunk and proceeded to verbally tear me apart! She was yelling, and just so mean, and so vicious! I kept trying to reason with her until finally I ran out of the camp sobbing. It was so unbelievingly awful. My other friend and her boyfriend were elsewhere when this happened.
I found a place to sit and cry, and sobbed for about 2 hours. Other campers kept walking by me, and finally a very nice guy stopped and talked to me for about 30 minutes. He invited me back to his camp, which I would have done except that I was still unable to stop crying. He told me if I was still there in another hour, he was coming to get me. It was really very sweet. I didn't even get his name.
After talking to him I decided to go back to camp. I walked up and everyone was there, and no one really paid any attention to me. So of course I lost it and asked my friend (not the one who yelled at me) if they hadn't even wondered what happened to me, and told her I was off sobbing the whole time because the other girl was mean to me. She said she thought I was off having fun somewhere and that they did try to look for me. I felt like she was being so cold though and it really upset me. I was actually more upset with her than the other girl!
Everyone went in their tents so I took their things out of my car and was preparing to leave and go find a motel when the non-yeller friend ran out of her tent to stop me. We had been drinking earlier in the day and she didn't want me to drive because of that and the fact that I didn't know my way around. She said I was over reacting, which made me mad because she hadn't even bothered to ask me what the other girl had said to upset me so much. She finally got me out of the car, and started talking to me, and we talked maybe a couple of hours or more – mainly just about trivial things. I told her about the nice guy, which she thought was cool. I know she made a real effort to comfort me, but the fact that she thought I was over reacting because I have in the past really bothered me. We've have a tumulous relationship, but she really does seem to care and has put up with alot from me. I've come to her crying a least a half dozen times in the year and a half that I've known her, and most times it was my own paranoia. So this time I felt like the boy who cried wolf.
The next day the yeller-girl said she was sorry for 'hurting my feelings' which isn't the same as saying she was sorry for what she said and did. Then she offered to have her daughter to come pick her up (we had rode up together – a four+ hour drive). I told her that wasn't necessary and we eventually drove home. I was sick with a sinus infection (it had started that night), so I slept most of the way (at her insistence).
So that's the story, here's my after the fact worries. First off, I don't know if I really want to hang out with the yeller-girl anymore, but we all work together, so I have to see her everyday. I also know she was drunk and at least made an attempt at apologizing. The thing is, the whole thing was so *traumatizing* for me! I mean really, really traumatizing. So I just don't know how to handle her now. I know if I just stop talking to her, my other friend will think I'm out of line since she thinks I was over reacting.
The second worry is about the other friend. I'm still bothered by the fact that she never asked me what was said that upset me that badly. On the other hand, I'm also worried that this may be the final straw for her. I don't think I mentioned it was her birthday weekend we were celebrating. But I would never have purposely ruined it for her! I think *anyone* in my position would have been extremely upset. They might not have cried all night, but I don't think I was out of line wanting to leave (I felt enough time had passed since we had been drinking myself).
So now I'm left wondering if I did indeed over react and maybe there is just something wrong with me. And if this something is the reason I seem to lose all my friends.
Posted by partlycloudy on June 2, 2004, at 12:43:05
In reply to Complete meltdown on vacation -Long, posted by TexasChic on June 2, 2004, at 12:31:21
((((TexasChick)))) You didn't overreact. It's amazing how booze can make people into monsters they don't usually resemble - and they can't exactly remember what those monsters said. I can't tell you how many road trips I've had that have been ruined for me but others seem to be oblivious to my hurt. They are probably not aware of the extent of your upset and wouldn't understand - but it doesn't make it invalid at all.
If you can find it in your heart to accept the apology for upsetting you (without the acknowledgement that they were RESPONSIBLE for upsetting you), then it will probably blow over. I have found that I have to remove the alcohol from the equation before I can reconcile people's behaviours.
Posted by TexasChic on June 2, 2004, at 13:07:49
In reply to Re: Complete meltdown on vacation -Long » TexasChic, posted by partlycloudy on June 2, 2004, at 12:43:05
Thanks partlycloudy. I feel better having gotten it all out.
The thing is, I'm just so sick of feeling out of control with my emotions. I just wish I could start over. I feel like I share too much with people, and then I regret it later. I think I saw a thread on this earlier, but I feel I don't know how to be a normal, casual friend. I think I try to hard and give to much. I just don't know how to tone it down. Maybe I can create for myself a more mysterious persona for when I meet new people. I don't know. I'm just sick and tired of myself right now.
Posted by partlycloudy on June 2, 2004, at 13:23:43
In reply to Re: Complete meltdown on vacation -Long, posted by TexasChic on June 2, 2004, at 13:07:49
Posted by partlycloudy on June 2, 2004, at 13:25:53
In reply to Re: Complete meltdown on vacation -Long (nm), posted by partlycloudy on June 2, 2004, at 13:23:43
What I meant to say was - I know what you mean. i only have off and on switches with emotions and sharing them, no volume control.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 2, 2004, at 14:32:43
In reply to Complete meltdown on vacation -Long, posted by TexasChic on June 2, 2004, at 12:31:21
Just trying to offer another point of view here, not lay blame in any direction. I was cursed at birth with the odd ability to see both sides of an issue - and be able to argue either one.
And, I really do understand the pain of being yelled at. I tend to be very sensitive and the smallest tiffs can throw me off for a loonnnng while.
It's hard for anyone to know if you overreacted unless they saw the first incident. This is true of the the folks on babble, and for your non-yelling friend. Filling in details, since you all work together would only make it worse.
But, the demon alcohol has been known to exacerbate many a situation. At the point ol' yeller was in, it was the bottle talking, not her. Some folks will tell you that the drink only makes you say what you really feel. Not true. Sometimes a person just lashes out at whoever is handy as a way to calm thier own inner voices.
Does it make it right? Heck no. But it can help soften the pain.
Also, there are some folks for whom that type of an apology is the best you can get. For whatever reason, those folks have thrown up a defensive mechanism that keeps them from saying "i messed up, please forgive me."
As for work, it is possible to be friendly without being friends. To keep the office harmonious I think that would be the approach to take. Then - hey - maybe later you can go back to being friends.
Posted by TexasChic on June 3, 2004, at 8:55:51
In reply to Re: Complete meltdown on vacation -Long » TexasChic, posted by AuntieMel on June 2, 2004, at 14:32:43
You're right, I do believe that she was lashing out at me just because I was there. What she was yelling about didn't even make any sense. So I'm trying to just put it all behind me, but I will still have my guard up around her for quite a while.
What you said about the apology makes sense too. Sometimes I think my expectations are too high about people. In my thinking, I feel because I would have apologized for my specific actions, she should too. But you're right that that might be the best she can do.
Things are going okay so far here at work. There were a few awkward moments at first, but they have passed. I'm just going to go with the flow.
Thanks for your insight AuntieMel. Its always appreciated.
Posted by justyourlaugh on June 3, 2004, at 10:12:03
In reply to Complete meltdown on vacation -Long, posted by TexasChic on June 2, 2004, at 12:31:21
every feeling you have is valid real and important.
your emotions are what makes you a wonderful passionate person.
you did not "over react"
over reacting is when you feel terrible and lash out at others(yelly girl)
you may need some time heal but i know you want to forgive your friends,,
we all make mistakes.
jyl
Posted by TexasChic on June 3, 2004, at 10:55:07
In reply to Re: Complete meltdown on vacation -Long » TexasChic, posted by justyourlaugh on June 3, 2004, at 10:12:03
Thank you, I appreciate your kind words. Its funny, I try to get everyone else to realize their feelings have validity, but then I have trouble believing it about myself. I guess that's why I come to this board.
On the Pysc board they were talking about PTSD and I found alot of what they were saying hit home with me. I grew up with alot of yelling and fear, and it has taken me all my life to repair just some of the damage that was done. I think when I got yelled at this weekend, I kind of flashed back or something.
I found something in an article about abuse that when I read it, I was like, that's it! That's what my childhood was like! Here it is:
"Ambient Abuse
The fostering, propagation and enhancement of an atmosphere of fear, intimidation, instability, unpredictability and irritation. There are no acts of traceable explicit abuse, nor any manipulative settings of control. Yet, the irksome feeling remains, a disagreeable foreboding, a premonition, a bad omen. This is sometimes called "gaslighting". In the long term, such an environment erodes the victim's sense of self-worth and self-esteem. Self-confidence is shaken badly. "I can barely even bring myself to think back to what it was like when my dad was alive, and how I lived in constant fear. I always had an unspoken fear that someday he would kill us all. I've tried to leave the past behind me, but it may be time to explore it to find the reasons behind some of my fears. Its a scary thought though.
Anyway, I'm just being introspective. Its nice to be able to just write it all out, and to have people who actually understand.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 4, 2004, at 10:52:05
In reply to Re: Complete meltdown on vacation justyourlaugh, posted by TexasChic on June 3, 2004, at 10:55:07
Are you sure you're not me?
I know exactly what you are talking about. Hopefully you'll get rid of it at an earlier age than I did (still am.)
I had exactly the same childhood. No visible signs of abuse, beltings aside, but a constant barrage of little things that made all of us feel like we'd never be good enough.
Sometimes I would talk about "dad things" to one or two of the very few people I could really talk to. But relating them one at a time over a long period of time kept me thinking that it wasn't so bad and I was just over-reacting. Another confidence blower.
And the trust issues! I was seeing my therapist for over a year before we got into anything personal. It wasn't his fault, I just needed to feel comfortable first.
Recently we started going over the "dad things." I spent easily 6 or 7 sessions just giving example after example of things that happened, not going into any detail on any of them. Just listing. Not repeating. Just listing. And (light goes off) came to realize that this really was abuse, it's not me, he really was a d**k.
Someone once told me a way to let things go. If my dad wasn't buried in another state, I'd do it. What you do is spend a good long time writing a letter to your dad telling of all the times where you were done wrong and how they made you feel. Take that letter to his grave and read it to him. When you are done with that, then tear the letter up into tiny pieces, put it on the grave and burn it. Sounds like it could work.
Good luck.
And call me Mel. Both my friends do.
Mel
Posted by TexasChic on June 4, 2004, at 11:39:35
In reply to Ambient Abuse » TexasChic, posted by AuntieMel on June 4, 2004, at 10:52:05
It's funny that I just discovered this. I read about ambient abuse, and it exactly described how I felt about my childhood. Then when I read about PTSS that people have from abuse as a child, a light bulb went on. I couldn't help but wonder if that could be a reason why I'm so overly sensitive to yelling and disparaging remarks. I feel like I'm really discovering something about myself, but I'm not sure what to do with it yet.
I may have to try the letter thing, but I haven't been to my father's grave since his funeral. I've just never felt like I could handle it. There was so much guilt for being happy he was no longer around, combined with the sadness of missing him.
I have yet to talk about dad issues with my therapist. She said one day we would have to though.
Thanks Mel.
Posted by spoc on June 4, 2004, at 17:31:33
In reply to Re: Ambient Abuse - Mel, posted by TexasChic on June 4, 2004, at 11:39:35
Ambient abuse... That would be my background too. But the convoluted thing (and maybe evidence of the most insidious aspect of this) is that I sometimes feel like if it had been more physical, I would at least have less guilt, and therefore be less messed up. Because I'd *know* it wasn't my fault. When friends who had more violence and blatant deeds in their pasts lament a current family situation they don't want to deal with, I think to myself that they should just put themselves first and avoid it, and never have to feel bad or guilty over that.
As if a line could be that neatly drawn, and the logic of a healthy adult applied retroactively. Not at all the way it works, I know, and I can't do it either. But when my guilt over something family-related is annhilating me, I do find myself wishing I had something more concrete to "justify" the self-preserving decisions I sometimes feel so compelled to make. That feels so wrong even just to say. The circle of guilt continues.
---------
P.S., hi Tex, long time no type! (I've been better at moderation lately). I feel for you about the camping experience, that kind of thing sure is a truly nauseating and lingering nightmare! : (
Posted by TexasChic on June 7, 2004, at 9:16:53
In reply to Re: Ambient Abuse, posted by spoc on June 4, 2004, at 17:31:33
Thanks for your input spoc. Its good to hear from you too.
I totally get what you're saying. I feel weird saying I was abused as a child because no one ever hit me. But I have no doubt I was in an extremely dangerous situation. Mixed up in that is the feelings of love I had for my Dad (who passed away back in 1990). So that means all kinds of guilt floating around in my head.
At least I've been able to come to an understanding about my Mom. I no longer feel I have to give in to her when she's being manipulative. It makes for more anger and fighting, but at least now I'm doing and believing what I feel is right without guilt. And I am slowly but surely learning to take care of myself instead of being at everyone's beck and call. When I finally get moved out, I think I will finally feel completely free from my family's hold.
This is the end of the thread.
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