![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by karen_kay on May 28, 2004, at 18:19:12
In reply to Re: mr scott » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on May 27, 2004, at 10:24:17
you are not inspired? now i am baffled! usually i either offend or inspire, but never baffle. this is a new one for me. i guess it's better to cause some sort of a reaction in you than none at all, but i'd rather inspire you, mr vermont. what could i do to inspire you? if i were to pull this off, would that inspire you? or, if i were to send some of the profits to you, would that help inspire you, or would that offend you? i'd rather not offend you, but i don't want to baffle you either.
oh dear, now i'm baffled. will you marry me mr vermont? i could try to get someone to take care of all of us, that way you could work with your hands (wood work that is) and watch the sun rise on your front porch (did i get it right this time?).
i am curious though. didn't you mention you have a job in telecommunications (am i wrong?)? i am wrong sometimes. do you mind telling? that's my major and i'm curious...... oh, and do you think you could find me a job (and that's a joke, unless of course you could :)
take care mr vermont (does that make you sound like a contestant in a beauty pageant? do you like it?)
Posted by Jai Narayan on May 28, 2004, at 20:37:56
In reply to Re: mr vermont » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on May 28, 2004, at 18:19:12
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 1, 2004, at 14:53:37
In reply to Re: mr vermont » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on May 28, 2004, at 18:19:12
When I answered your post on Friday, I wasn't really "here". I have collected myself and I am "back".
That having been said, I would indeed be inspired if you were able to pull this off, and there is no need to share the profits.
With regards to your marriage proposal, I must remind you that I am still "married" even though I am in the process of divorce, and I am also aware that if I do re-marry my "wife" will file for reappraisal of support. So perhaps rather than making it a piece of paper, you would consider this instead:
The house I live in is an old Vermont farmhouse with 9 rooms. There is room enough for at least 3 other adults there. I'm not opposed to the idea of a collective "family" community that works towards the common goals and overall good of it's members. There is all sorts of work to be done that doesn't involve a commute in the morning. The garden is huge and is a daily task. There are childcare issues in the summertime. There are housework items that seem to keep getting rescheduled. There is decorating that isn't even being scheduled. 24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week just isn't enough in this artificial existence called "modern living".
I did review your desired position requirements. I don't think there is currently an opening for the position of "do nothing but reap many benefits". If you would consider changing that to... say perhaps "garden weeder & waterer, light housework, laundry on odd days and cook once or twice a month" then a position might be available.
The benefits included in this position include (but are not limited to) sunrises on the front porch, listening to the frogs in the pond across the road chirp in an evening sonata that lulls you to sleep, 260+ acres of woodland for fun and frolic, a freezing cold brook with deep pools under long waterfalls for summer dips, fresh veggies
I do work in telecommunications. It is a good job and remains strong even in this current economic downturn. I do know that the company has a hiring freeze and will not be looking to replace any positions that vacate. It's not "downsizing" per se because no one is being let go...they just aren't being replaced. Most of the people leaving are retiring after 30 or 40 years in service. It's a good company. I'll be staying here and splitting my family duties between "income generation" and "physical labor". If I can find someone to fully take over the "income generation" portion, I'd be more than happy to fully head up the "physical labor" division of the family.
If you were able to find someone to bankroll the collective family as a whole, then you would be hailed many cheers would be offered in your name. And of course you could pick any job for yourself that you wanted, including "sit around and do nothing except whatever whim hits you".
So there's my offer. And here's a few extra perks or detractions, depending on your view: I would never care if you gained weight, so long as you maintained decent self-esteem. And since everyone is dense at some point or another, I would take it in stride. The lack of dog discipline might be an issue... jumping on people is one thing, but if it chews up one of my favorite books (and yes, they are ALL my favorites)... we might be having a very rich and oily meat with dinner the next evening. I can cook and so can my girlfriend (gasp! You didn't know about her, eh? No worries, she's not jealous unless you claim exclusivity, and then you're in trouble) so that is covered. Seat belts are the law in Vermont, and not wearing one subjects you to a ticket. I have no problem with smoking. I'm curious how small your head is... not being able to wear hats sound bizarre. Monkey arms are great for weeding the garden, I imagine, and big feet means we can share footwear. No, I do not care that you have no breasts, and yes, I would be ok with surgical enhancement if it was something you wanted to do and it had a healthful and positive impact on your self-esteem.
After reading some of your other comments, I can also say that "marrying" you, in a legally binding sense, may not be in my long-term best interests. But don't take it personally. I don't see marrying ANYONE again to be in my long-term best interests, and let's be honest...I have to be all about taking care of Scott, because I'm the only Scott I have an no one else is going to do it for me (although I have wished that someone would recently). If you can deal with participating in an extended family that expects at least some kind of effort out of you that produces a positive result and you can deal with living in collective "sin", then perhaps we have more to discuss.
And yes, I do feel very special being called Mr. Vermont.
Posted by karen_kay on June 2, 2004, at 11:24:03
In reply to Re: mr vermont, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 1, 2004, at 14:53:37
now, when you said this: "I don't see marrying you to be in my long-term best interests." (please note, this has been edited to fit my needs, because there is only one karen and my needs are what's important here, right?) does that mean no? are you easily persuaded? if so, i assure you i can change your mind.
consider this:
point number one: i'm not really as lazy as i appear. spiteful, yes. lazy, no. i would be willing to move to vermont, provided you supply the following:
*a ride, preferably in the middle of the night so i can just sneak away and never look back
*a place to live (i'm not picky, a car will do fine. ac not required)
*utter happiness (is that possible?)in return, i will provide the following....
*cocktail parties for you and your friends (male friends, right? doctors, lawyers, engineers preferred) btw, i am an excellent hostess. i refill drinks the instant they are emptied, always offer second servings, strive to assure no one is 'left out' of the gathering, make a mean vegetarian lasagna, and when i drink too, things are always fun (did you say you have a pool? at least a bird bath?)
*i have no problem with having dinner prepared a few times a month. does dominoes deliver where you are?
*i love gardening, but i lack motivation. so, i do need someone there to keep me on track. i often help others with their gardens, so perhaps if you remind me that it's not my own garden i'm tending, things will work out fine.
*about children... babies, not so good. old enough to use the toilet and i'm fine. but, i must require they wear helmets at all times (think i'm kidding?). i won't raise my voice or get angry with them for any reason, but again, babies i don't do well with.
*and what type of housework items are you suggesting? i don't mind cleaning, if that's what you are suggesting. i don't like dishes though. can we use paper plates and plastic forks instead? i'll wash glasses, but only because you can't drink wine out of a plastic cup. wait, i guess you can. so, plastic utensils it is, right?
benefits to marrying karen:
*entertainment
*i am quite lovely
*your friends and family will adore me, i promise
*you will be the luckiest man in vermont (tempted to say the world, but let's not push it)negatives to marrying karen:
*not applicable
so you see mr vermont, the benefits far outweigh the potential negatives to marrying me. i could list many more benefits, if you still haven't made your mind up at this point. i agree that the 'piece of paper' isn't important here. what is important is the RING! we don't even realy have to get married, i just want a ring. no need to tell your girlfriend, in fact i won't tell my boyfriend either. just in case this doesn't work out, i'll have a back up plan. i'll tell him i went away to a commune for the summer (or however long this affair lasts). i have no problem with living in 'sin'. i assure you of that. but, i would want to claim sole exclusivity over mr vermont. i think your girlfriend may not be fond of this. how could we solve that problem? perhaps tell her i'm the nanny? or housekeeper? or your sister? ok, sister would be pushing it.
so, i'm giving you just one more chance to rethink your decision. i've never had someone say no to my proposal before, but rather than feeling hurt and rejected i'm feeling excited and a bit more assertive. i'm not too proud to beg mr vermont. but, i must warn you, i'm married to a poor, canadian woman. can she move in with us too? oh, and will you help me pay off all my bills? and buy me a pony? and i have to have liquor in the house at all times. don't be concerned, it's not a problem.
did i persuade you yet mr vermont, or do i need to think of a new strategy? oh, and that shirt looks nice on you today :)
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 2, 2004, at 14:11:54
In reply to rejection? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 2, 2004, at 11:24:03
Well now. Please understand that it is not my intent to hurt or reject. I prefer to have relationships start from a genuine and honest platform. That leaves less room for neglectful errors in the future.
Marriage, as in a legally binding document that ties me to your assets and debts, ties me to your future well-being in the form of support payments should we get divorced… that simply is not going to happen (unless you drop 3 of my Ambiens into my beer and then haul my semi-comatose butt off to the JoP… make sure someone there is CPR qualified in case I drop off the edge, ok?)
But you do present a strong case. So I will reply to the following:
I can provide a ride in the middle of the night. However, Canada is a pretty big place. I would request that you get as close to Montreal as possible. Quebec City is a potential pickup point, and Toronto is out of the question unless you promise to buy me lunch on the way back.
A place to live… well, I think I already described the place that I’m offering. You can choose between the back room and the front room, neither is in use right now. My recommendation would be the front room, as it can be fitted with an exterior door with no problem and has an independent heat source, and has the most beautiful view of the rising sun out of the entire house (well, except the porch).
Utter happiness… hmm, this one is more difficult. But in coming to America, you will be granted the inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness. If it’s good enough for the rest of the country, it’s good enough for you. But I’ll see what I can do in the “happiness” dept. I’ll address that a little further down in this dissertation of why you should and should not take me up on my offer.
Cocktail parties (off the subject, but I always snicker when I see that word. The one in front of “parties”. Juvenile, perhaps… but I still think it is funny) would not be necessary, because frankly I don’t like cocktails (snicker) and my friends are generally not associated with the kind of people who would be attending cocktail (snicker) parties. If I could interest you in a slightly less regimented itinerary, all of my friends are heathen and we basically drink a lot and run around naked in the woods. In the wintertime, we build big fires, drink a lot, and run around naked in the woods but not too far from the fire. It’s not “high culture” for sure, but it is fun. Your veggie lasagna would be an absolute hit; there are not many meat eaters (finances mostly, as opposed to ethical reasons). And I do not have a “pool”; I have a large brook with waterfalls that created natural pools at the bottom. Perfect for wading or sitting in, not advised to be dove into.
No, Domino’s does not deliver where I am. However, I have a microwave. I don’t mind if you heat something up. It’s the effort I’m looking for, and respect.
Motivation? Did someone say “motivation”? I was in the US Army for 6 years. I can provide all sorts of motivation. But prior to that, I’ll take your advice and ask you if you’d come out and help us with OUR (not YOUR) garden. That way you’re doing something nice for someone else and get that warm fuzzy feeling for doing something nice for someone else without clouding it with thoughts that you’re doing your job or that you “have” to do this.
My kids are 6 and 8. They have been going to the bathroom by themselves for a long time. I do have to ask about the helmet requirement, though. Please follow up on this in future correspondence.
Housework, for all intent and purposes, means pick up your own messes and tend to your own laundry. Self-sufficiency is the desired end-result when it comes to housework. For the unscheduled things like vacuuming or dusting, you would be required to make some sort of effort, or at least barter that task off somehow. As far as dishes go, I won’t allow paper or plastic in our home because it’s economically wasteful and it’s bad on the environment and it reeks of slothful laziness. For a big party, yes. But daily use? No way. I’ll do the dishes myself if that is what it takes to keep that junk out of our home.
I have reviewed the additional benefits of “marriage” to you. Entertainment is a major plus. There is no Cable at the house and the Internet is dialup only. I play many different instruments and I like to sing, but I’m the only one who is doing this right now and would prefer a duet. Do you play any instruments? If not, can you juggle? Or can you spin a good tale? Entertainment is always welcomed.
Being quite lovely is a plus, but it does not impact my decision one way or another. In all honesty, I look for more in a person than what is considered “beauty”. It is your mind, your heart, and your spirit that I will find attractive. Being a hottie will be icing on the cake, yes, but it’s not the reason I want the cake.
My friends and family would adore you anyway. They judge people the same way I do, for the most part.
Luckiest man in Vermont, eh? Well, this issue would have to be addressed sooner or later, so I may as well do it now. My girlfriend assures me that I am already the luckiest man in Vermont, and part of that is because there is no claim of exclusivity. I cannot and will not be “owned”, nor will I allow someone else to submit to that particular form of emotional slavery. It works for other people, true, and it is a healthy and positive thing for them. It did not work for me, and I do not want to feel “trapped” again.
Therefore, I would have to introduce you as exactly what you would be- another member of an extended collective family who was there to share in the duties and benefits of our collective family.
A ring is no problem. My friend Jon is a metalsmith and he specializes in jewelry. I hope you don’t mind ornate silver, because I cannot afford gold, and if there is a rock on it, it’s not going to be from a deep mine in South Africa, if you get my drift. That having been said, I encourage you to remain in contact with your boyfriend, so that if this situation doesn’t work out, you do have a fallback plan. I respect people who cover their bases and leave options open.
The poor Canadian woman would be welcomed, with the understanding that she would be subject to the same requirements as you. However, if you will vouch for her and ensure that her share of duties is performed (and the beauty here is that the more people there are, the less general duties there are) then she has nothing to worry about.
As far as helping you pay off your bills, bear in mind that my income is supporting a lot of people already. If you have outstanding debts, you may wish to consider getting a part-time job here (I’ll allow you to use my car for transportation providing you know how to drive and have a valid driver’s license) and towards that end I’ll help you with your assigned duties here so that you have the time off from the family to pursue generation of income elsewhere to address your debts.
I will not buy you a pony. But if you chose to acquire one on your own, there is plenty of room for it. The costs and responsibilities associated with the pony will be entirely yours to address and absorb (although I am sure you can get other people to go in with you on this).
Liquor in the house is not only no problem, it’s guaranteed to be there. Three things I will not go without is alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine. As far as nicotine and caffeine go, I’m not too fussy, but for alcohol I prefer beer, vodka, and mead on special occasions. We’ll be brewing our own mead, by the way.
I come to the end of this massive opus that I wrote instead of working. So I find that it is time to answer your final question… did you persuade me? In a way, yes. My core remains the same, but I’m open to discussing further the suggestions you have offered, and I think we can work this into a realistically achievable goal for everyone involved.
By the way, did I happen to mention that my family is Scottish? I’m serious. Clan Macleod, Harris sept Beaton.
Posted by karen_kay on June 2, 2004, at 15:31:06
In reply to Re: rejection? » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 2, 2004, at 14:11:54
i think both myself and my new wife should fit in fine with you and your friends. put some liquor in us and the clothes come off. and doesn't everyone love fires? the bigger the better, right?
i should tell you though, i live in the united states, not canada. i only married a canadian and we haven't had a chance to meet just yet but i have a really good feeling about her. she did neglect to inform me she was poor before we tied the knot. perhaps she could take a lesson from you in being up-front and honest?
and you called it "our" garden..... are you sure you don't want to get married?
about cooking: i love to cook for people. so, if you invite your friends over often, i'll cook. i just don't like to cook for myself. and you'll have to do the grocery shopping of course. i can't push the cart. does that bother you?
and you called it "our home".... are you sure you don't want to get married?
and you said (were you talking while you typed this?) you play many instruments..... now, you have a job in t-com, you are scottish (wowsa! i've always wanted to marry someone scottish), you don't mind smoking or drinking.... BUT!!!! do you play the banjo? it all depends on this one question. if you don't play, i advise you to learn and soon!
about helmets: i worry. i'm afraid they'll bump their heads. will you require your children to always wear helmets in my presence? even when they are reading (and i'll read them a bedtime story too.... i'm good at that!). this is almost as important as playing the banjo!
now, i can't sing nor can i dance. i do dance and sing in the car and shower, does that count? but, i can be quite entertaining, especially when drinking. it's my fine point. and it's rather entertaining when i'm dense, even for me. i do cartwheels too. i sometimes fall into fires when i'm drinking, but i recover very fast. and that's entertaining for some people, including myself. and the lack of clothing keeps me from catching fire quickly. i knew there was a reason i take them off!
about driving: first of all, you didn't say "our car". but, i've never had a ticket (ok, a seat belt but i got out of a speeding ticket in the process). i only hit nonmoving objects (another reason for the helmets. and i never wear a seat belt, unless i see an officer. will you try to make me wear one? would you be mad if i moved your seat while i was driving? or lost some of the cd's in the car? and please tell me you drive a fast car!
about being owned: of course if we do this thing, i'd have to own you. but, if you prefer, i will do so in a way so that you don't realize it. would that help? and it would have to be an open relationship for me, because i just can't be tied down with one husband. but, you can't have another wife. if you do have another girlfriend, i must not know. or, it could get fun if i do know. i must choose her and she must fit my standards, if we are all going to be involved. is that better? oh, but of course i am your favorite. i would have to be! and even if you weren't my favorite, i'd make you believe you were, promise!
i do like the way you wouldn't give me everything i want. it makes things more challenging i think. but, i will not discuss the pony option. you must get me a pony. if not, i'd have to find a boyfriend to get me a pony. i may lose interest in you and look towards the other boyfriend. and then, you'd be heartbroken. so, for your own sake, perhaps you should rethink the pony thing and just get me one. a pony isn't just a pony. it's for your own emotional health dear. and i couldn't share my pony with anyone, it would have to be MY pony and my pony only. not even my wife could ride my pony. i'd share my husband (with a suitable girl i guess) but not my pony. and i'd flaunt my pony too! and laugh at everyone who couldn't ride it. would that be ok?
but, keep in mind everything is up for negotiation. oh, but our mail carrier must be super friendly. may i bring my mail carrier with me? i really like her and she gives my dog treats. and the guy at the gas station who sells me smokes. can he come too? and i'm still concerned about your girlfriend though....
oh, and would you get mad if i hit on your friends?
Posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2004, at 21:17:42
In reply to did someone say naked? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 2, 2004, at 15:31:06
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 3, 2004, at 8:27:22
In reply to did someone say naked? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 2, 2004, at 15:31:06
Now we’re getting to the meat of the offer.
I’m rather pleased that you rank getting drunk and running naked in the woods high on your “fun things to do” list. I would never have made participation mandatory, but I’m genuinely pleased to see that no coercion on my part will be necessary.
I misunderstood your point of origin. The original idea still stands, however. If I’m driving more than 10 hours to get you, you’d better buy me lunch.
When I used the word “our” to refer to the garden, it was to show the sharing capacity I am capable of. No, I do not want to get married in a legally binding sense.
Well, you didn’t say you liked to cook for other people! That changes things a LOT. And no worries on the grocery shopping, it falls under the duties and responsibilities of finances, which I maintain myself.
When I used the word “our” to refer to the home, it was to show the sharing capacity I am capable of. No, I do not want to get married in a legally binding sense.
Yes, I did talk out loud when was writing the previous (and current) epic. I’m here to let you know that I have been plucking at the banjo for some time, and while I’ve yet to master the instrument, most people are impressed with my playing. My friend Jon (the metalsmith) is an incredible banjo player.
Trust me about the helmets- if they have made it this long without a head-bumping incident, I think they will be just fine without them. However, if it will make you feel better, you can wear a helmet yourself in case you ever bend over to button a shirt and #BONK#…
Singing in the shower and car is good practice for singing in other places. Even if you cannot sing well, the effort is what is appreciated. However, I must caution against falling into fires. The fires we have are pretty big. If you fall in, you might not be getting out. Jumping over fires is a good thing (it’s a traditional practice, actually) but no falling IN. If I have to keep you away from the fire, I will.
You are right that I didn’t say “our” car… it’s MY car and while I will share it I don’t want any misunderstandings about who has the yea or nay say about what does and does not happen with it. I cannot be there 100% of the time to hold your hand, so if you choose to not wear a seat belt, be prepared to accept the consequences if you are pulled over or get into an accident. Yes, you can move the seat to fit you and no I won’t get mad, it makes good driving sense to have the seat properly positioned. And so long as you are losing your OWN CDs, I don’t care. By the way, I do have a fast car. It’s a Volvo 740 Turbo.
Owned… well, this is going to be a problem. You know how I am about honesty and openness. If you wish to pretend that you own me, in your mind, then I suppose that is ok, but any overt actions that make me feel trapped or owned are right out, period. The “up” side of this is that of course our relationship would be open. If the whim hits you to be involved with someone, feel free to do so. My only rules are is that you’re safe. If I were to have another girlfriend (or boyfriend) I would of course be open about it. Secrets serve no good for anyone and create jealous situations that are unnecessary. As far as group participation, I’m not opposed to it but I have been in those situations before and it’s not always a positive experience for everyone… there can be no coercion and no pressure. And I don’t feel any need to have to be your “favorite”.
If you have to find a boyfriend that will provide you with a pony, then so be it. I will not incur the expense, nor will I accept any of the responsibility in caring for the pony. The pony is your dream, and since you’re not willing to share it, we’ll list it under the “personal pursuit of happiness” as opposed to “mutual collective interest”.
We don’t have a mail carrier, we have a PO Box. But if you would like to have your carrier visit us (I don’t know how keen she would be on moving) then that’s fine. As far as the guy at the gas station who sells you your smokes, same idea but if either of them want to come, we’ll make room so long as they provide effort towards the collective.
No, I do not mind if you hit on my friends. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you do hit on them, don’t be a tease. Make good on your flirtations.
I am thinking that, with a few minor issues, this can work.
Posted by karen_kay on June 3, 2004, at 9:51:32
In reply to Re: did someone say naked? » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 3, 2004, at 8:27:22
of course getting drunk and naked is ranked as one of my funnest things to do. it merely takes a suggestion of "karen, get naked and start the revolution" to have me swimming naked in the pool. nevermind that there was no 'revolution' only a drunk, naked girl in the pool (and that was just last weekend). and sometimes it doesn't even take liquor. my canadian wife and i have discussed (on several occassions) our "meeting" which would consist of running naked through the streets. i'm easily persuaded see, if someone dares me to take my clothes off (nevermind the policemen around the corner), off they come. but, the suggestion must be there. oh dear, and the times i've embarrassed my sweet mother with my nakedness. but, it was good for business, though i awoke with a stranger's name on my rear. apparently i was having a great time, and the pictures proved it, but i remember very little. i think in the past few years, the phrase i've heard from my mother the most (aside from 'did i stutter?') is 'karen kay, put your clothes on'. i'm glad she loves me. (oh, and my wife is very similar as well. she has her own 'naked stories' that i wish she would include in the conversation. you must meet my wife (but not before i do of course) if this is going to work.
now, i'm not even sure where vermont is, but it sounds lovely. geography isn't my strong suit. i don't know how far of a drive you are looking at, but your efforts will be rewarded. i can cook (when prompted to), do laundry, housework, brush a dog (are children's grooming needs similar? or at their ages, aren't they old enough to bathe themselves?), talk crap like no one's business, and i have even been known to be pleasant and soothing on very rare occassions. but, how could i buy you lunch? i have no money. should i ask my boyfriend for some money, so i can buy scott lunch because he's coming to get me? for some reason, i don't think he'd be handing over the cash (but again, i could be wrong). i suppose i could try to steal you a sandwhich from a gas station. would that be good enough for you?
so were you joking about 'our' home and 'our' garden? if not, is it possible for you to put my half (quarter? just how many people will be living there?) up for sale, so i can buy you lunch and something nice for myself? will it be enough to buy me a pony? is that a possibility, to sell my portion of 'our' home, so i can finally get that pony i've always wanted?
you can play banjo, but jon can play better? can i get his number when i move into 'our' home? better yet, can jon move in too?
i consulted the atlas and it appears that vermont is probably further than 10 hours away (but, reading maps isn't my strong suit). but, when i tried to measure the distance with my fingers, i found it is only about 80 miles away. i think i have something wrong with my measuring capabilities.
how did you know i bump my head often? i especially hate low ceilings with ceiling fans. that's a potential disaster in the making. why in the world would someone install a ceiling fan on a low ceiling anyway? were they not thinking about tall people? (off subject, but not really... i choose not to wear hats (other than the fact that they make me look funny) because if i wear a baseball cap i often find i am ducking down because i think it's a low ceiling, rather than the bill (is that right?) of the hat. so, not only do they look stupid on me, they also make me look stupid since i'm always ducking for no apparent reason.)
oh, and i won't wear a helmet. never! i'll suffer a head injury from hitting a cabinet before resorting to wearing a helmet most of my life. that's a chance i'll have to take.
and if you don't mind that i don't sing well, i'll sing. but, when you laugh at me, it'll cause me to laugh at me too. so, i won't accomplish much singing, only laughing and i can find all sorts of things about myself to laugh at without using singing as an excuse. so, wouldn't it be more enjoyable to laugh at someone else singing, that way we can share the fun and still be entertained?
can you jump over fires? my friends and i used to have parties out in the woods and by the end of the night, we'd be jumping over fires, burning the benches to keep the fire going and even once threw the host's guitar in the fire. he was angry, but he should have known it's dangerous to keep any type of wood that close to the fire, especially when wood is running low.
and about fires.... all this talk caused me to dream last night i was running from the police (i haven't a clue why, i didn't do anything wrong but my first instinct is to run) and they set my arm on fire! now i'm dreaming about fire. (and you said you'd keep me away from the fire. that's sweet (i think?). i didn't know you cared. but, will you keep the police away if they try to set my arm on fire?
about 'YOUR' car. you sound like my boyfriend now. this will be something we have to resolve in the future. i assure you i wouldn't steal 'YOUR' car and run away to canada.
but, this does start the discussion.... how do i know that when you are angry i wouldn't hear about 'your' home or 'your' children (wait, if not *legally* married, then i wouldn't have any rights to the children, correct? so, i couldn't say, sell them on e-bay if i needed money?). i'm willing to share my suitcase and clothing with you. not to mention my charming personality, my work ethic, and my attention and affection. so, why not 'our' car? you wouldn't have to sign anything, therefore it wouldn't be legal. and if i did steal 'our' car, you could still report me (you wouldn't do that though, would you?). so, how about we change the wording just a bit and call it 'our' car? to make me feel better about things? pretty please?
i like the open relationship idea. however, would i have a voice in your options? would i be able to say 'now scott, i don't approve of her or him.' and if i did say that, would you listen? and if you istened, would you heed my advice? and just how many relationships are we talking about here? and could i still pretend to be committed to you, even though you know i'm not. like, if jon was sitting on the couch naked, would you allow me to say 'oh, he's dusting' and go along with it, even though we both know he's not? i do need an answer for this one because it's very important to me to make the person i'm in a relationship with feel as if we are exclusive, even when we both know that isn't true.
ok, what if i was willing to share the pony? just a little bit. like, others could feed and groom the pony, but not ride the pony? and if i was riding a pony, could i wear riding gear? i may even make an exception to the helmet rule, just because they look so darn cute on pony riders. (oh, and does a pony run really fast?)
you don't have a mail carrier? when you go to get your mail, do you stop and talk to the person working, to make it feel almost as if you do have a mail carrier? i would have to bring my mail carrier with me. if she won't come willingly (how could she not? i think i could talk her into it) i may have to use force. would that upset you?
now, the imprtant question.... about your friends. say i did find one (or 6) of your friends acceptable and 'made good on my flirtations' would you and your friend(s) compare notes? and what if i decided i like one (or 3) of your friends better (in bed), but still wanted to live with you? would sex be a big issue? would you be jealous? is it our bed or your bed? if it's our bed, is there a problem with me entertaining your friends there, but not you? and what if you are sleeping and i want to entertain one of your friends (or 6)? would you get up and leave, so i could use the bed? or would you be angry? and if you ewre angry, would you still just get up and leave? and would you be angry at me or your friend (s)?
now, i must warn you of some of my 'bad' sides. i don't like being told no, and will do everything to avoid it. for the first few years, sex and affection works. after that, i tend to move on to kissing feet and begging. once that works no more, i have been known to lay on the floor in a ball until i get my way (usually chinese food or to watch something on tv, though in this case it could be the car). will this work? will this be a problem? how would you handle this situation?
and this sounds too good to be true. why aren't more people jumping in to move to vermont? sheesh! maybe some people wouldn't know a good thing if they read it on babble?
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 3, 2004, at 13:03:53
In reply to Re: did someone say naked? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 3, 2004, at 9:51:32
Getting drunk and running around naked is not a daily occurrence, my apologies if I led you to believe that. While nakedness is common, the “getting drunk” part is usually reserved for times when I don’t have to be terribly responsible the next day (as in go to work). Also, there will be no running around naked while the children are present. This is not debatable. The first time the children go back to Mommy and tell her the interesting story of how Daddy had a party with a bunch of people running around naked would be the last time the children came to visit. I have enough problems right now, losing the children doesn’t need to be added to that list.
On that same line of thought, having fun is a good thing, but waking up with a stranger’s name written on your butt and having pictures of the good time you had but cannot remember… well, if that is what you want to do, then do it, but you might want to consider the repercussions of your behavior. Incidentally… you wouldn’t happen to have those pictures anymore, would you? ;)
Vermont is located in the northeastern part of the United States. It is bordered by New Hampshire, New York, Massachusetts, and Canada (Province of Quebec). I live in Central Vermont, which means I live more to the middle of the state than I do the north or south. I live in the upper elevations. If buying me lunch is a problem, perhaps I’ll just mail you a bus ticket so you can travel on your own until you are close enough to where I can pick you up and not need lunch. I would prefer that you not ask to borrow money or steal anything.
I was not joking about the home or the garden or anything else. But do know that while you would be welcomed to share in all the things available here, selling items off (particularly children) is deeply frowned upon and would create an untenable situation at the home. Chances are, you’d be asked to leave. So please consider the impact on the overall collective before taking action that could have a negative impact.
Jon may move in with us anyway. He’s currently working towards different a new job, but depending on how it works out he may set in with us for a short time. Jon is my best friend in the world, and without him I would be much more lost than I am now.
With regards to the head bumping… suffice to say I took a guess.
Singing well is not the issue; it’s the effort to entertain. I don’t sing all that well either, so you may well find yourself laughing at me. But it is a small matter, I enjoy singing and I do it anyway. No matter how it goes, it should prove to be entertaining.
Yes, I jump over fires. Usually on May 1st, but I might do it now and then just because I want to. On the same line of thought about fires, wood will never be in short supply. We plan our fires and we always bring in wood. Using my guitar for firewood would not only be ill advised, it would guarantee you an unpleasant evening on the “X” rack in the basement. It is used only in the most severe disciplinary actions, and burning my guitar (or any of my other instruments) would qualify.
I’m sorry about your bizarre dream. One would think that law enforcement professionals would have more effective tools at their disposal. But the good part is that it was indeed only a dream, albeit a disturbing one. And yes, my promise to keep you away from the fire was a sweet gesture.
I am unconcerned about sounding like your boyfriend. It is my car. I will share it. It is my car. You may use it. It is MY car. Period.
I can assure you that you will not hear things like “my home” or “my garden” (of course you will hear “my children” because they are! I was there when they were born, and if memory serves me right, I didn’t see you there. All claims about parentage with the children should be referred to my lawyer) even if I am upset. I tend to deal with things calmly and rationally (unless it involves the selling of my children or the burning of my musical instruments… and my car is an issue at times) so I don’t see too many incidents where I would be terribly upset. I will share my personal things with you, and I appreciate that you would return the same consideration (although I’ll pass on the clothing… I prefer men’s clothing… well, unless you have garter stockings and thong panties… then I’ll consider it on the odd occasion).
Open relationships are the only way this will work, and they have to be approached with mutual respect and consideration. Therefore, if you object to a potential partner of mine, it will be discussed and if you still object, I would cede. We’re talking about… well, as many as possible, but no more than 5 or 6 in a year. This isn’t “long term”, if you get my drift. Life is short. Play hard.
If Jon were naked on the couch, I would probably say “Hey Jon, nice to see you” and then carry on about my previously scheduled business. You can pretend to be committed to me all you want if it makes you feel better. I’m not a terribly jealous person, so long as the person (or people) I’m with are honest with me and allow me to be honest with them.
Again with the pony! Look… the pony is your personal dream, and you want it to be your personal pet. So you can take steps to make it happen. I’ll provide the location for it to stable and I’ll even help build a stable for it, but I’m not spending a single cent on the pony.
No, I do not have a mail carrier, but I know the people at the post office rather well. I went to high school with one of them, and the rest of the people there are friendly and nice. It’s always a nice time to stop in and say hello. You can do that too if you wish. Using force to bring your current carrier to Vermont with you isn’t advisable, but so long as you take the responsibility for your own actions, I’m not going to stop you.
With regards to my friends, if you made good on your flirtations with one (or six) of course we would compare notes! That’s what guys do. And if you liked one (or three) of them better than me in bed but still wanted to live with me, I imagine I’d be busy enough elsewhere to not mind terribly (so long as you were not bitter or spiteful about it… be honest, not cutting) and beds are not an issue, if one was being used for adult activity that I was not invited to, I would sleep elsewhere. If you wanted to schedule adult activity that I would not be involved in, I would appreciate being advised of that prior to going to sleep. If I’m already asleep in the bed and you come in with your entertainment entourage, you’re going to be told to go find somewhere else to play.
I only say “no” when I have to. If you say… “Scott, lets go to Montreal this weekend and go to the All Leather Review at La Track!” then I’ll ask how much we’re going to spend, and if you say anything over $100 (US) then I’m going to say “no”. Pout and kick and cry all you want, you cannot change the financial reality of the situation. I’m not someone who caves to gratuitous whining and sniveling, and yes I do know when I’m being sucked-up to and I generally do not like it because it is manipulative and coercive.
It sounds too good to be true because it is true and there really is a farmhouse in VT where I and my girlfriend live, there really is 260+ acres of land, there really is 9 rooms, there really is a huge garden, there really is a large brook with cascading waterfalls, and we really are thinking about opening up our home to become a more collective community and extended family.
Posted by karen_kay on June 4, 2004, at 0:37:07
In reply to Re: did someone say naked? » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 3, 2004, at 13:03:53
have no fear, i tend to control myself around children (assuming they are over the age of 16, right?) there will be no getting naked in front of them. drunk i can't promise. perhaps we could tuck them in extra early (i start drinking around 4 pm) on those days reserved for drinking? or better yet, maybe we could convince your girlfriend to take them out of the house for a while (say the weekend) so that we may 'be one with nature and find oureslves' among liquor and camp fires (we meaning me and your six best friends of course. you would be invited too, but at this point i'm very interested in jon). now, if your girlfriend taking them out for a weekend retreat isn't a possibility, perhaps you and your girlfriend could take them out for the weekend. if i live there, i want to feel at home. and i only feel at home in places where i'm allowed to strip off my clothes and frolic through the woods, just like every other human being. if weekends aren't an option, then i'll go with weekdays. but, since you have to work you wouldn't be joining us (me and your friends). is that a correct assumption? if this is going to work, i must feel at home and nothing says home like me passed out on the floor or lying naked in the bath tub. would that be ok? could you explain to your children that i was only showering and fell down? or that i slipped while vacuuming and forgot to put my clothes on? i'm starting to get worried about the children. not that i'd be a bad influence of course, but that they may not understand why daddy's new girlfriend frequently is laying on the floor with an empty bottle of bourbon in her hand. would you be able to explain things to them? would you at least lie to them, for my sake?
i swear, i think i've been to your house before. or perhaps my sister's current residence is turning into your plan? it's always a good time, but i do need some time to myself. how would you handle that? could i have 'karen time'? plus, everytime i go over to my sister's house, i seem to end up in some sort of bind, involving her future father in law (he's an engineer you know? would you consider changing professions?), her future brother in law, and my future brother in law. and i'll not even mention the tension between me and her future mother in law. so, if put in this particular setting, i'm almost afraid of my future (or lack thereof). if it is anything similar to what happens at my sisters, i don't know that you could handle it. i'm not entirely sure i could handle it for a long period of time.
oh dear god! i just reread you post. when i first read it, i thought you said you were concerned about sounding like my boyfriend. after taking another look, i have discovered you are UNconcerned about sounding like him. hmmmm... i'll have to think about that for a minute.
what's the "X' rack in the basement? you said it isn't fun, but for some reason i think it sounds rather tempting. i wouldn't want to burn your guitar, but is there a lesser crime i could commit to warrant a trip to the "X" rack?
and i wouldn't really sell your children. i could never be that hurtful. but, would renting them out be ok? even just for a few days, to a good home?
you said you were sorry about my dream. for that, i've decided to forgive you for being unconcerned about sounding like my old man. but, the dream didn't have a 'nightmare' feel to it. i didn't wake up sweating (ok, you caught me, i did but not because of the dream) or breathing heavy (again a lie, but not from the dream). it was just an odd dream. i'm sorry you wasted your sympathy on that. i'll try to be more precise when describing my dreams in the future, so that you don't waste sympathy where it is not needed. now, if you want to be sorry, you could be sorry for not backing down on the pony. also, do you know anything about ponies? i'm rather tall and someone suggested that i couldn't ride a pony anyway. could that be true? if so, isn't that the story of my life. be sorry that i may be too tall to ride a pony :( *and if i rode a pony and my feet touched the ground, wouldn't that just make the pony move even faster?
i think the clothing situation (request)can be arranged.and just how would we work this out with your girlfriend? could she and i compare notes? and who gets to do on dates or to the movies? would you just pick the person you weren't mad at, at the time? what if i wanted my 'scott' time, but your girlfriend did too? how would you decide who to choose? i wouldn't mind sharing really, but i think alone time with 'scott' would be very important. and also, what if i wanted alone time with your girlfriend, at the same time you did? would we just draw straws? i think that since i'm coming in a bit late, i'd feel somewhat inferior at first. i assure you though, soon i would claw my way to the head of the household. but, while i'm sharpening those claws, how would you prevent me from feeling inferior, since i am entering a bit later than you and your girlfriend, so the power structure would be a bit skewed, no?
you'll help build the stable for the pony? that's very sweet, but if i found someone to build it for us, to help with the cost, would you at least pay for half of a pony?
and if i wanted to play in your bed, while you were asleep but not invite you, you'd ask me to leave? i'd feel rejected from that one dear. what if i invited you (knowing you wouldn't want to join in anyway)? then, would you leave? if we share everything, doesn't that include the bed? and what if yours is the only one that doesn't squeak?
i find this arrangement to be very fascinating. and i really like the way you won't budge on certain things and issues. but, you should be up for negotiation for other matters. selling children, no! pony, possibly! moving out of bed so i can have it, YES!!! i'll reread your post and start fresh again tomorrow (or today?). in the meantime, coudl you give me jon's number. at least until we work out the minor details?
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 4, 2004, at 8:55:04
In reply to Re: did someone say naked? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 4, 2004, at 0:37:07
The children are with me 3 weekends out of the month. I am doing everything I can to change that, but for now, I see them Friday night through Monday morning. Monday night through Friday morning the house is “adult only”. Also, the “off” weekend each month is usually fraught with hedonistic activity. So I don’t think you’ll find the presence of children cramping your style. I appreciate your efforts to remain somewhat presentable around them, with the understanding that you won’t have to do it very often.
If you choose to frolic when I am not home, that is your choice and the option is certainly open to you. However, if you have things that need to be done (such as the garden needs weeding) then I ask you to be responsible and weed first, frolic later. And no, I do not mind that some of my friends join you. That’s the entire idea behind this.
If you need “Karen time”, then take it. But do remember that in your absence, someone else is picking up your duties. So please, take the time you need, and then come back ready to get back into the routine.
The “X” rack… it’s a bad place. You don’t want to go there. I suppose it could be used in lesser offenses, but then the intimidation value will be lost. So no, you can’t go play on the “X” rack. No worries, though. There are other devices in the attic. Those are the ones you might be interested in. And thank you for looking into the clothing request.
I fully expect that you and my girlfriend would compare notes. I would be surprised if you did not. As far as “Scott time”, you can work that out amongst yourselves, much like you and I would work out “girlfriend time”. As far as power struggles go, there really is not need for one. There is no “power” per se, it is a collective where we have meetings and discuss things democratically. There are positions appointed, such as I am the steward for the finances. My girlfriend is primary on managing the household items, and we share in the other duties. I do tasks traditionally considered “male” tasks, such as lifting heavy things, fixing stuff, and making sure that things don’t break to the point of needing to be fixed. My girlfriend does most of the cooking and laundry. We shop together. So when you come into this (as well as your poor Canadian wife) there will be a division of tasks and duties, but as you can see, the addition of even one person divides the tasks to the point where each person has a few tasks individually, but everyone benefits overall.
This next subject is something I think you are being unreasonable on, and I won’t shrink from speaking my mind on it. If I am already in a bed and sleeping, and you come in to play with someone other than myself, I’m going to ask you to find somewhere else to play and I do not think that is unreasonable at all. To illustrate this, lets say I’m having a “guy’s only” night and we come into the bedroom where you are already asleep. Would you want me to kick you out of the sack? No! You’d want me to go find somewhere else to play. When you look at this scenario from a different angle, it doesn’t look so unreasonable.
I’m always open to negotiation. And I haven’t said “no” to anything, really. I did not say you could not have a pony, I said I wasn’t going to help you get it. I did not say you “can’t” anything (except sell my children, and no, you can’t rent them either). But I did say that you are responsible for making the individual things you want to happen. Asking me to help you with getting a pony would be like me asking you to help me get something you would have no interest in and did not want to deal with.
How tall are you, anyway?
Posted by karen_kay on June 4, 2004, at 13:42:38
In reply to Re: did someone say naked? » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 4, 2004, at 8:55:04
when you say meetings, it makes this plan sound like work. if we had meetings, how often would they be? and would someone bring donuts? i could bring bagels, but only if there is a panera remotely close by. but, back to the meetings... how often again? and what if i had a question, but you felt it was a 'stupid' question and should not be discussed? and at these meetings, would we be discussing things like:
*sleeping arrangements
*scheduling 'scott' time and girlfriend time?
*who's better in bed
*visitors (or the fact that you may not like my visitors)
*jon sitting naked on the couchwhen you say meetings, are we allowed to air dirty laundry? are they open discussions that allow each person to state their feelings? what if something is said in a meeting that hurts another member of the community? how would that be handled? and what about fist fights? what if that situation were to occur? would people just watch or take action?
so, is your plan more of "roomates with sex" or would there be some type of relationship? would love be involved at all? what if i fell in love with your girlfriend and tried to use you as a pawn to get her? would that be discussed in the meeting? and if i did that, would i be asked to leave? and if i were asked to leave, would you give me a ride? and how would i explain this to my mother? nevermind that one, she'd understand. but, how would i be introduced around? as one of your girlfriends? would i even be your girlfriend (if we had to label things. i'm just trying to get an idea in my head here. bear with me.) and could i introduce you (and your six friends) as all being my boyfriends? or 'casual' partners? what exactly would i be to you? and am i asking too many questions?
about the bed situation: i don't think i'm being unreasonable. i think that if the idea is to share, why not share the bed as well? i would attempt to be respectful of your beauty rest, but i must also respect myself as a person and not settle for a lumpy mattress when the nice, firm mattress is located in your bedroom. right? could we come up with a schedule so i could have your bed on certain days and you could have mine on those days? would that solve this minor problem?
and if i wanted to sleep in your bedroom, with you, would we have to devise a schedule? like: karen monday - friday, girlfriend saturday, alone time, sunday. would this at least be discussed at the meeting?
what exactly do you have in your attic?
ok, let's forget the pony for the time being. but, would you at least pay to get my hair done? this would be a deal breaker if you say no. if i will promise to take on extra activities in the home (or bed, take your pick) could you at least guarantee to have my hair done for me? with taking on these additional tasks, that would make my free time very valuable and i couldn't be bothered with a job. and what about times when i need money? how would that work? again, if i spend most of my time cooking, cleaning, gardening and frolicing, how would i have the time to make money of my own? and also, would you at least contribute to the 'get kk a pair of breasts' fund? how much would you be willing to donate? would this also be discussed in the meeting? i assure you, me having breasts would not just be my own personal dream, as many members of the community could benefit from it.
shouldn't my ability to entertain at least grant me a pair of breasts? you and your six friends could pitch in and buy them for me for my birthday. oh, and also..... what types of presents would you get me? of course i'd expect presents from time to time. and not just for holidays either.
and i'm about 5 9. could be 5 10 maybe? or 5 8? i haven't measured in a while.
oh, and do you have a special apron for gardening? and could i garden in a cocktail (quit laughing) dress? and could we have some cocktail parties at least? maybe just once a year?
oh, and would i be expected to cook thanksgiving dinner? or would we go to your parents? or would we go to my mothers? and would you buy a motorcycle? for yourself of course, not for me.
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 4, 2004, at 14:09:59
In reply to Re: did someone say meetings? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 4, 2004, at 13:42:38
My apologies. I have a meeting to attend and I will not be able to respond to this until Monday.
I'm serious. I'm at work.
Have a good weekend.
-Scott
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 7, 2004, at 7:33:12
In reply to Re: did someone say meetings?, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 4, 2004, at 14:09:59
I'm not at work today. I'm leaving here in about 5 minutes. I'll try to post here tomorrow.
Posted by karen_kay on June 7, 2004, at 9:07:07
In reply to Re: did someone say meetings?, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 7, 2004, at 7:33:12
i'll be here, trying to think of more questions :)
take care of yourself scott.
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 9, 2004, at 10:19:45
In reply to Re: did someone say meetings? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 7, 2004, at 9:07:07
Don't give up on me while I'm putting myself back together. And yes, I'm still doing all of my assigned household chores. :)
Posted by karen_kay on June 9, 2004, at 11:07:41
In reply to Re: did someone say meetings?, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 9, 2004, at 10:19:45
never scott! i'm here, waiting patiently. and if there's one thing i AM, it's patient. or, am i A patient? i can't remember exactly what i am, but i'm still here waiting to talk some more.
oh, and if you need help with the household chores, let me know. i can clean (sort of) and cook (sort of) and clean up dog crap too.
take care of yourself scott. you're missed but we can talk about making it up to me later :)
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 9, 2004, at 15:38:18
In reply to Re: did someone say give up? » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 9, 2004, at 11:07:41
Meetings are Thursday nights after dinner. That is when we do a financial report, and we also assess the “to do” list, such as crossing off items that have been done, introduce items that need to be done, and review the list to look for obsolete or unnecessary items for deletion.
There is no “stupid” qurstion, but there are questions that are out of order with the current discussion. Such as, if the topic of discussion was replacing the shower head in the bathroom, and you said “speaking of which, who’s night is it next Wednesday?” (I was soooo going to say something else, but I think we’ve been really close to the “keep it civil” envelope so I didn’t use the word I wanted to, but it was a repaeat of one I already used, right after “shower” and would have replaced “which”…) That kind of question is complely off-topic, and is almost guarenteed to derail the discussion. We don’t normally have donuts in the house, but I would not mind some home-made donuts on occasion.
Items discussed (in topic order) are usually:
· Financial report
· Organization and supplies report
· Review of the “do list”
· New topicsThe items you mentioned such as sleeping arrangements, scheduling Scott time and girlfriend time, who's better in bed, visitors (or the fact that I may not like your visitors), and Jon sitting naked on the couch would be discussed under “New Topics”. If you wish to air dirty laundry and state feelings, you may do so, but please wait until we reach “New Topics”.
Everyone in the community is an adult (or at least of legal drinking age) and I hope that disagreements can be dealth with effectively and responsibly, mediating to an acceptable compromise without much hassle. If a personality conflict arises, it’s the responsibility of the the parties involved to work out that conflict amicably. If no resolution can be reached, there is always the old way of doing things. Bare fists, best of three falls wins, no questions asked. Speaking of fist fights, there is NO FIGHTING unless it is a sanctioned event. Rouge fighters will be spending some time in the basement.
“Roommates with sex" sounds so crass. Of course there would be some kind of relationship. I’m certain that over time love would be involved as well. I know that I’m not going to fall madly in love the minute I meet you, and honestly you’d frighten me if you said that you loved me at first sight. I want to work on a friendship that would be based on mutual respect, sharing, and honesty. When (if?) we reached the point where emotions were running deep, we’d deal with it from there.
If you fell in love with my girlfriend and tried to use me as a pawn to get her, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean get her in the sack, or do you mean take her from me completely and hold her in complete exclusivity? If you can keep her OUT of the sack, it’ll be an accomplishment on your part (part of her disorder thing, she likes sex a lot lot lot). But if you try to take her from me completely… well, I guess we’d have to have a talk in mediation.
If you left on your own (meaning you wanted to leave) I would help you as much as I could but would expect you to at least arrange some kind of transportation. If you were kicked out (by popular vote, mind you) then we’d help you pack and then happily drop your bags off at the nearest bus stop. But there aer so many negatives here! Let’s concentrate on the positive.
I would introduce you as my friend, or girlfriend, depending on how our relationship was going at the time. You could introduce me (and my 6 friends) as your boyfriend(s). I’m not terribly possessive,, so long as I am involved in some way. Much as I cannot be trapped or owned, I would not want to “own” another person. You are obviously a free spirit, and trying to cage you in would be as terrible as caging an eagle. You need freedom and space to spread your wings, but you also need a warm and safe nest to return to. I can be part of both of those needs if you wish.
Who said the other mattresses are lumpy and uncomfortable? And if there is one (which there isn’t, thank you… do you think I pick up my bed sets off the side of the road?) how do you know the one I’m already sleeping in isn’t the lumpy bed? My point here is have some consideration. If you would like to invite me to play, then of course wake me and hop into bed. But if you are going to be playing without me, and I am alreay there, then you really should go to a different room. We have 3 bedrooms and 5 beds. I think you can find a suitable bed for playtime. But ohh… I know… you’re going to say “sure, send me off to play with 6 of your friends on a twin bed?” Face reality here…. There isn’t a bed big enough for 7 people. That’s what they make floors for. But yes, I think making a schedule would be best, and if a situation arises where something occurs outside the schedule, I’m sure we can discuss it at the time and come to a reasonable agreement.
“what exactly do you have in your attic?”
I’ll have to show you, explaning it here would get me banned for at least 2 weeks.
Of course I’ll pay for you to get your hair done. My girlfriend has beautiful hair and I really like it, so if paying to do your hair gets me out of the pony discussion for now, joy of joyous joys! Yes, I’ll pay for your hair to be done. And yes, I’ll contribute to the KK Breast Fund. Trust me, it would not be a completely altruistic gesture.
I like to give gifts from time to time. I prefer them to be personal and thoughful, such as… if you like reading, I might buy you one of those nifty lamps that clip on your book for reading in bed at night. I would also pay attention to the things you liked to read and buy you book in that genre. This is not all I would do, it’s just an example of the kind of attention I would provide. If you’re going to be part of my life and I am going to be part of yours, knowing the “little things” about each other is important.
5’8 to 5’10, eh? Yes Karen, please come live with me. Please. I’ll even reconsider the pony.
And I’ll get you a special apron for gardening. They are called “overalls”. They won’t look as good on you as your cocktail (snicker) dress, but you know… overalls with a midrif t-shirt… (droool)…. Ok Scott, focus… well, you’ll look simply yummy…er, I mean you’ll look fine.
Major holidays are usually discussed with the “other” part of the family, mainly wacky blood relatives who I try to avoid unless a major holiday is coming up. We’lll cross those bridges as we get to them. And yes, we can have a snooty and very proper cocktail (snicker) party at least once a year, to prove that we do indeed have class and culture.
I would love to have a motorcycle. It’s on my “to get” list. I’ll probably get one right around the time you get a pony.
In all, not too shabby a deal here, I think. We need to start closing this deal and working out specifics. You need to arrive before the end of August at the latest so you can help with the garden.
Posted by karen_kay on June 9, 2004, at 19:08:20
In reply to Tag, you're it! » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 9, 2004, at 15:38:18
glad to see you up again. that's always a good sign, unless it's not my turn for which. (i did have to reread that at least 3 times to figure out what you were talking about. i did warn you i can be quite dense. but also, wouldn't that business of scheduling fall into the correct category anyway? i mean, it would be under the 'to do' list, correct? i'm not good with logic, but it seems to me, that would honestly fall under the to do list. and it wouldn't really be new business, since there would be nothing new about it. perhaps if there was a new friend there, then it would fall under the new business catergory, but i still think it would be appropriate under either category, right?)
and is there really a such thing as homemade donuts? i've never heard of this nonsense...
and i still don't think the basement sounds like a bad place. do you have a picture of the 'x' rack you can send me, to assure me it's not fun? does it look sort of like a pony? when someone's on the x rack, do you take pictures? are they at least naked? give me something to look forward to here. i have a feeling if i were there, i may be spending quite a bit of time on the x rack. and the first day, i'd have to test you, just to see the x rack.
the fighting part sounds fun too. do you regularly schedule fights, like every other saturday? or, could i at least instigate a fight just to participate? sometimes i just like to fight and i often go looking for one. would that be ok? would you hold it against me if i fought often? and what if i lost, would i then be the laughing stock of the community? do you think i could beat up your girlfriend? i'm fairly certain i could take her. just give me the chance.
about love: i beg to differ with you. (and no, i'm not looking for a fight right now) i do believe you would fall madly in love with me the moment you talked to me and met me. you can try and pretend otherwise, but i can be very persuading if i feel the need to be.
so, i could introduce you as my boyfriend? could i call you my old man instead? i'm not fond of the b word. and i'd want you to introduce me as princess kk. would that be ok with you? and would you treat me like the princess i am? of course, i couldn't agree to any of this until you agreed to both introduce and treat me like a princess. oh, and do you have air conditioning in your house? and are the floors carpet or wood? if i'm going to be 'playing' with your friends, i couldn't meet your parents with carpet burn now could i? that wouldn't be acceptable.
about your girlfriend.... when i mentioned using her as a pawn, i meant taking her from you completely. would that be frowned upon? if so, would that be a dismissal or just a trip to the basement? (and again, i don't think the basement sounds as bad as you pretend it is. i think i'd be spending much of my free time in the basement.)
and what if i threatened to leave, but only to get your attention? so that you would take better care of me or buy me gifts. would that also be frowned upon? would you encourage me to stay or tell me to pack up? and if you told me to pack up and go, would you at least give me some money for the road? so i could buy the next guy lunch?
how much money are you willing to invest in the 'kk breast fund'? this is a very important matter indeed. if you could contribute about 95%, then i'd be willing to find a way to raise the rest. they aren't for me, mind you. they'd be for the community.
if you bought me gifts, would i then be expected to also buy you gifts? how would i get the money for such things? wouldn't my company be gift enough for you? listen up (if you are thinking 'no way! company is not gift enough.' i have plenty of people who would be willing to pay for my company. don't think i don't have other offers available. in fact, so many offers they are knocking at my door. so, i can't give you gifts unless i make you a picture out of macaroni (which may not be good since there seems to be a shortage of food). but, i can however tell you i need money to get you a gift and spend it on myself. would that be frowned upon? oh, and i can't keep money either. it seems to run as fast as i get it. is that a problem? ohhh, and would you help pay off my student loan debts too? if you say yes, i'm there!
you said you'd reconsider the pony. but, what about the car? would you have the title legally changed over to my name? forget the pony, i want a car in MY name. is that a possibility? (and all because of my height? you sure are easy to please, know it?)
and i love overalls! i have a few pictures of me gardening in overalls. i somehow lost my last few pairs :( *oh, and does it matter that i sometimes lose things? if i lost something, would you replace it? like say, the car you just got in my name?
and can my sisters come and stay too? what if they leave their kids at home?
i'd need to arrive before the end of august to help with the garden? you sure know how to sweet-talk! it's only june right now, so i have soem time to think about this before actually commiting. your offer sounds very good, but i know that people tend to talk up certain aspects and down play others.... so, what about your children? are they well behaved? would i have to have some sort of contact with them, if i were to move in? could i hide in the basement until they left? and would everyone make fun of me for doing silly things, as i'm quite apt to do? say, for instance, i got lost in the woods while frolicking? would everyone laugh at me for that or think it's cute? and if i wrecked your car, would you be mad at me or be able to laugh about it? adn since you have 3 bedrooms and 5 beds, where do you put the extra 2 beds? do you have more than one bed in a room, or do you simply sling a mattress where ever it will fit? and is your house clean or dirty? and you do have coffee, right? and you'd fix me breakfast in bed, wouldn't you (though i couldn't eat it until after noon)? and you'd laugh at all my jokes, right? and when i laughed even if you weren't being funny, you'd laugh too right? and you'd never get mad at me, right? even if i tried to sell your house? (yes, i do sometimes get plans in my head that i feel i must act upon.) you'd laugh if you came home and there was a 'for sale' sign in your front yard, right? and we could travel some too, right? not just to visit your folks, but where ever i wanted, right? if you couldn't travel, your girlfriend and i could travel and you'd fund our adventure, right? promise?
it sounds like a good plan at this point, but you've yet to completely convince me to up and move to montana (or vermont, whatever). what if i just had to do something at that moment, would you try to stop me? for example, what if i just HAD to travel across the us to follow a band around, would you give me money to do so? while i'm not looking for a relationship, i am looking for a financier for my adventures. could you do that, even if i brought back a few groupies to also add to the community? see, it would be for the good of the community after all. more people equals less work, remember?
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 10, 2004, at 13:09:55
In reply to speaking of which » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 9, 2004, at 19:08:20
The business of which would fall under New Topics because chances are it would have already been addressed at an earlier date and any request for a change to an existing schedule would be dealt with under New Topics. I can see how you might equate such things to the To Do list, but that list is primarily work-related, and I would never want which becoming work, as that would be totally contrary to the idea of the entire thing.
(Yes, there really is such a thing as homemade donuts, but if you want those cheap powdered ones, I’ll get you some of those instead)
Well, at least your obsession has diverted from a pony to the “X” rack. And I’m betting that you think I’m just making it up. I’m betting that you think I’m full of poo up past my eyebrows (why else would my hair be brown?) but you’ll have to trust me on this one… there really is an “X” rack in a dark and damp corner of the basement. No, it has not yet been used for anything. No, it doesn’t look like a pony! It looks like an X! If it looked like a PONY, it would be called the PONY rack!
(sigh…) you’ll test me, just to see if you’d “earn” the rack, eh? Something tells me that you’re going to be a very needy and high maintenance kind of partner. The details of the rack would fall under “please be civil” and I still think we’re dangerously close to that, so I’ll have to leave it to your imagination. That, or check out www.spankthebadgirl.com
I won’t wager a bet on who would win a fistfight between you and my girlfriend, because I don’t know you well enough. But I will say I have been teaching her to fight, so you might want to spar with the guy who sells you your smokes at the gas station a little.
There is no such thing as love at first sight. Lust, want, and desire perhaps, but not love. Love is an intentional emotion that needs to be nurtured and cultivated. If we fall in love, it’ll be after we have explored each other more.
You can introduce me however you want. But if you call me your old man, you’d better get me a Harley because I don’t need some biker guy getting all bent because you’re using a biker phrase to describe me and all I have is a Cannondale mountain bike (which you can ride if you want).
I will DIE before I introduce you as Princess ANYTHING. The reason for that is because I refer to the (soon to be ex) wife as “princess”, because she is such a (edited so I do not get a “please be civil”… but do know that words rhyming with trucking, shunt, and ditch were part of the rant I edited here) and there is no way at all I’m going to have someone in my life that I refer to as “princess”. Forget it.
The house does not have AC, but get over it… its VERMONT. We have maybe 3 days a year that AC would be nice, but that is why they make fans and swimming holes. Toughen up, city girl, you’re moving to the country.
And yes, the house has all wood floors. Spruce, for the most part, but the kitchen has linoleum. There are area rugs (which can be rolled up if need be) and anything involving oils should be done in the kitchen.
With regards to stealing my girlfriend… if you think you CAN take her completely, be my guest to try. But keep this in mind- if you manage to edge me out of the picture while you are playing with my (ex) girlfriend and 6 of my friends, keep in mind that your playtime was provided by Mr. Perry, bill payer and income generator. You might find a way to carry on without me, but you’d better believe that if I wanted to be in an emotionally abusive relationship where I was taken for granted and expected to provide all the utilitarian functions without as much of a reward as a pat on the head, I’ll just move back in with my wife. Don’t even think about pulling that crap on me. Which is another reason why I’m never going to marry anyone ever again. If something like the above happens, I’m packing up and heading down the highway. I do have dignity and pride.
If you threaten to leave only to get my attention, you’ll “get my attention” all right. I don’t like playing games like that at all. You’re really starting to remind me of my (soon to be ex) wife. You know… I’m starting to think that perhaps you’re not community material after all. You seem very manipulative and coercive, and I have noticed that your “needs” seem to be becoming more and more outrageous with each exchange. Perhaps we need to start over.
So at this point, I’ll say the fundraiser for your breasts is your concern, no I will not put the title of my car in your name, and you don’t have to buy me a gift (unless it’s a case of .45 Hydro-Shoks. But don’t worry, I’ll only need one… you can take the rest back). Your sister, your height, your poor Canadian wife, your boyfriend, or being a groupie for your favorite band… all of those things are your issues. Yes, I am aware you have other offers. You might want to start investigating them.
Vermont is here and waiting, if you can do what it takes to get here.
Posted by karen_kay on June 11, 2004, at 11:46:26
In reply to Re: speaking of which » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 10, 2004, at 13:09:55
i went to spankthebadgirl.com and you know what????? there is NO such place. you lied to me. how could you lie, and so early in our relationship? i thought this was going to be built on trust and honesty? and i REALLY thought i was going to see the x rack. you left me feeling very vulnerable and sad that i don't have a chance to view the x rack. i'm also upset that you're thinking 'ha! i pulled a fast one over on her' well mr, nothing gets by me.
and i'm not needy (please love me!!!)!!!! nor am i high maintenance. i'm not the one demanding everything under the sun (just a pony, place to live rent free, your 6 best friends, air conditioning, and your car. is that too much to ask?). you, on the other hand sir, would be demanding quite a bit from me. you'd expect me to work in the garden, when instead, i could be loafing around the house drinking. you'd expect me to entertain you and your 6 best friends (oh wait, that was my idea, wasn't it?). you'd expect me to sing and dance (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! you've obviously never heard my voice or seen me walk). seems to me, you're the one who's demanding and needy.
and then, to add insult to injury, you tell me i should start investigating my other offers? you fool me by posting a site that doesn't exist. you tempt me with your x rack (which i don't even think exists). and try to lure me to vermont with your offer that sounds too good to be true. and then, you call me needy and high maintenance? and tell me to look elsewhere. is this your attempt at reverse psychology? are you trying to get me to come, by saying you don't want me there? i thought things were good between us scott, i really did. and i was SO ready to play on the x rack (but only after being punished of course). and then you snatch it away, just when it's within my grasp? i'm feeling highly offended now. in fact, i may have to seek therapy after this. will you offer to pay for it? it is your fault, after all.
but scott, i'm very forgiving. and i'll take you up on your offer to start over again. so, let's try this one more time and forget all the mean words that have been uttered (by you of course. i'm never mean or demanding or needy or manipulative or whatever else you called me). so, i'll start first, ok?
hi scott. i'm karen. how's vermont this time of year? i've heard it's lovely right now. i might be interested in visiting vermont some time in the near future. do you think you could find me a place to stay?
(the ball's in your court now. try to woo me over, ok? :)
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 11, 2004, at 12:44:54
In reply to oh, i fell for it... » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 11, 2004, at 11:46:26
Hello Karen,
(even though we are starting over, I have to go back to the "old days" for a moment to explain a bit here. Without any kidding or mirth, I have been cycling like mad these last few days, and there were a few triggers for me in the post I left. I should have waited or at least proofread that post before I submitted it. I have read it numerous times since then, and I really wish Dr. Bob had a "delete post" option, because I most certainly would have. My apologies, especially about the non-existent website. It was a smarmy joke.)
I'm Scott, and the weather in Vermont right now is absolutely fantastic! It's a little on the chilly side in the mornings right now (midway through June and still getting frost warnings...) but it's all part of being in the Green Mountains.
If you're interested in visiting Vermont and looking for a place to stay, I might be able to help you out. I moved into a very large farmhouse (9 rooms) in April and currently share it only with my girlfriend (and my children visit me 3 weekends out of the month) and I'm certain that we could accommodate you. We have many unused rooms, all fully furnished. :) It's kind of like a bed & breakfast.
The house has a beautiful East-facing sun porch, and in the back yard (which is huge) we have quite the garden going (100% organic) and not too far from the back yard we have a large brook with many different waterfalls with pools that just beg to be waded in. I have yet to find one deep enough to actually swim in, but it's so beautiful out there, I hardly care if I'm in 6 feet of water or 6 inches, I just enjoy being out there listening to the roar of the water as it cascades over the bronzed rocks of the ledge.
Directly across the street from our house is the local country store. It's a bit more pricey than the supermarket 20 minutes away, but it's got the essentials for life (beer, smokes, bread, milk, cheese, and eggs) so I don't usually mind paying a few extra dollars when what it saves me is time.
The house is located next to VT RT 100, which means you actually CAN "get there from here". I'm about 25-30 minutes away from Montpelier (the State capitol) and about 40 minutes from Williston and Burlington (shopping capitol of Central Vermont). But more importantly, I'm about 30 seconds away from some of the most beautiful woodlands Vermont has to offer (my biased opinion of course) and if you're into things like hiking, mountain bike riding, or just mellow walks in the woods, I think you'd like this place an awful lot.
If you do come out and everyone gets along well, we might offer to make this a more permanent arrangement. I really think that you'll like the house and the land. It really might work out as something where you stay with us long-term. I know how difficult it is to move (I have had to move 4 times since February of this year) and I know it's hard to start over, so I would offer you room and board in exchange for helping us out around the place. Not a whole lot, just things like working with us in the garden and the such. We're both employed and we're doing as ok as we can during these uncertain economic times. That is why we're doing the garden. It's nice to have food in the winter.
So give some thought to this offer, and let me know what you think. If nothing else, it might be fun to just visit.
-Scott
Posted by karen_kay on June 13, 2004, at 23:16:10
In reply to Hello Karen » karen_kay, posted by Scott in Vermont on June 11, 2004, at 12:44:54
do you mind if i call you mr vermont? does it make you feel special? is this sounding somewhat familiar?
don't worry about anything dear. i took it as a joke anyway. and i can promise you, if i move to vermont (or stay for a little while), i will try my hardest to not be needy or demanding. if it gets to that point, i'll move (but, can i have half of the house if i leave?) out.
your house sounds beautiful. if i were to come and visit, would i sleep on the couch? would your girlfriend join me there? would that make you jealous?
and, if i stayed (or moved in, depending on the situation) what would be my official title? could i be the entertainment coordinator? i'm rather easily entertained, so maybe everyone wouldn't like my choice of entertainment. and would you find it annoying that i giggle alot (not just frequently, i mean about half of my waking moments.). do you become easily annoyed? if so, maybe a visit would be better, i tend to become annoying after a while. would it bother you if i followed you around? like, say you went into the kitchen, i'd follow you. then, you tried to open the fridge, and i'm standing in front of it. then, if you go to the bedroom and i'm standing in the doorway when you try to leave. would you find that 'cute' or annoying? if you found it cute, how long would it be cute before moving onto annoying?
and you don't have a pool? how could i get drunk in the pool, if you don't have one? i think a pool is a very important aspect of 'starting the revolution'. how could i swim in a shallow brook? could we at least take a vote on getting a pool?
oh, and at the meetings, would someone mention that i'm annoying (if they found that to be true)? if someone did say that, would you defend me or agree? and, if you're watching tv and i want to talk, would you pay attention to me or the tv? or, if you're reading a book and i had to tell you a story (that ended up being very boring) would you be upset? and what do you do when you're upset? would you yell, or attempt to tell me the importance of 'mr vermont time alone'? and, if you told me the importnace of your alone time, and i still bugged you, would you be mad (even though i wouldn't bug you on purpose, sometimes i just have to talk or i'll forget what i want to say)?
it is very nice to have food in the winter. but, what if i got lazy in my gardening duties, how would that be discussed? would it result in a fight (fist fight or verbal assault)? would it be brought up in the meeting? if so, how? would you play it cool and jsut say 'i've noticed the weeds are growing in the garden, could you take care of that?' or would you say 'get off your butt and do something!' the delivery is very important.
and, what if you liked me but your girlfriend didn't? would we have a vote? how would you vote? how would that be handled? or, what if i moved there and noone liked me? oh dear, that's scary (though unrealistic, i assure you).
please get back to me on these questions, ok? oh, and air conditioning is not required. perhaps we could discuss a pony or breasts instead?
Posted by Scott in Vermont on June 14, 2004, at 10:27:39
In reply to no apologies needed mr vermont.. » Scott in Vermont, posted by karen_kay on June 13, 2004, at 23:16:10
Hello Karen,
I do not mind if you call me Mr. Vermont, but it does make me feel like a contestant in some bizarre contest. And who knows, perhaps I am and I just do not know it yet.
I am happy that you took the joke as it was intended. My “literal switch” has been sticking in the “high” position recently, and I tend to see other people viewing the world as I do and that’s simply not how it is.
As far as being needy and demanding, I can see how you’re just getting the “big questions” out of the way first. I don’t think you’d be terribly needy or demanding, because once you were here, I think you’d fall into the flow of things and you’d find that you’re actually feeling quite content and at peace with things.
If you came to visit, you would use a guest room. Where my girlfriend sleeps would be up to her. I’m her boyfriend, not her keeper. I would only become jealous if I was excluded all the time, and did not receive any attention from her. That is not necessarily meaning sexual. It’s emotional and also speaks of companionship. I like having time by myself, but I do not like being alone.
Your “official title” would probably be Karen. And the position of entertainment coordinator just happens to be wide open. There is no cable or broadcast TV at the house, so any entertainment would be welcomed. I play guitar a lot, but it would be nice to have someone else step up and entertain for the evening.
I notice that you have a great deal of concern over the possibility that you will be perceived as “annoying”. All I can say is that I’m a very easy-going guy, and if I get annoyed with something I’ll tell you about it politely. If you continue to be annoying, I’ll conclude that you’re doing it for attention and I’ll give you genuine (not coerced) attention. If that isn’t what you need, I’ll re-assess my previous conclusion and then decide that you’re just annoying, and I’ll go to Fionn’s house to have a beer (without you). I don’t know what I’ll do after that. If you’re picking on me just to get a reaction, you might find the reaction is no reaction at all.
I don’t have a pool and I know that a “real” pool is not a cost that I can absorb. However, there are municipal pools in the area if you need chlorinated water. I much prefer swimming in the brooks and rivers. There are brooks that are deep enough to jump off 30 ft cliffs into. They are not the one by my house, but they are not too far away.
If you started to slack in any duties you accepted, the first approach would be concern (Hey Karen, is everything going ok?) and I’d discuss your duties and ask if you needed some help, and I would also ask you to ask us for help next time before it got to this point, because we take care of each other here. If the same behavior continued and there was no discernable reason, I would use a more direct approach, such as you suggested (I’ve noticed the weeds are growing in the garden, could you take care of that?) and if the situation persists without any due cause other than you simply are not doing anything (meaning I’ve talked with you about this before) I would then start explaining the concept of a collective, and why it is important for everyone to do their fair share. If that didn’t work, I’d tell you to get off your lazy butt and do something. Conversely, I would expect you to do the same with me if I was slacking. Sometimes a person needs a kick-start to get going again.
If I liked you but my girlfriend didn’t… well, we will have to cross that bridge if we get there. If nothing else, I can state this- if we open our home to you and extend hospitality, it will not be rescinded. Even if you decided to leave or we asked you to leave, we’d help you do that. But I have a feeling you’re a lot more responsible than you might present yourself, and you’re certainly a likable person. I do not think you have anything to worry about. Nothing to worry about… unless you want me to pay for an incredibly expensive and vain cosmetic surgery, or want something ridiculously expensive that adds little benefit to the collective, such as a pony.
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