![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 55. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
Disclaimer: It is not my intention to offend anybody or lead others to feel put down by this post and if that should happen, I sincerely apologize.
I don't think I can stay on PB any longer. I have had a LONG week to reflect on what has happened and with each passing day, my initial feelings have not changed.
I have not been able to sleep well and I've cried endlessly. I feel extremely traumatized by what happened to me on the Admin board.
I have e-mailed Dr. Bob several times and I have told him how I feel and what I needed from him to feel any better, all to no avail.
Replacing the first letter of that *evil* word with an asterisk has not lead me to feel any differently. I think everyone here is smart enough to still know what that *evil* word is, even without the first letter being present.
I do appreciate the very kind efforts of several posters, who have supported me by asking that the word be changed from it's *short-form* back to the entire word and/or by trying to archive the board. Unfortunately, in spite of your very good intentions, neither one of those options would have helped me to feel any better either. Lots of people, including myself read the archives and the word in it's entirety would been equally upsetting to me.
I deeply regret that several posters have received either a PBC or a block for supporting me.
I have tried endlessly to convince Dr. Bob of the depth of my feelings and have begged and pleaded with him to remove *that* short-form and to not replace it with anything else. As you can see, that has not happened.
I was blocked because I called the actions of another poster insensitive. To make it clear, I did not call the poster insensitive but only the actions. I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings but instead continued on with the subject of the thread, leading me to feel even further traumatized than I already was. I felt that my feelings were being swept aside and deemed unimportant, and it was more urgent to discuss the topic of the thread instead. I'm not stating that is how he felt but that is how I interpreted it, not only at the time but still do today. It upsets me even further to see this same poster say that he wants to put everything behind him. I'm glad that is so easy for him to do. Unfortunately for me, it is not. Every waking minute, I think about *that* word beside my name on the subject title and it sickens me. It is irrelevant to me whether he meant any offense by it or not, the end result for me is the same.
I also don't understand when a poster who feels as traumatized as I do by the actions of another poster can go unpunished for what their actions were, intentional or not and then for that poster to ask *me* if I was apologizing to them. Dr. Bob told me that he has made his decision of what action was taken regarding myself and this other poster, for the safety of the whole community, at least that is my understanding.
To be honest, at the time of this all happening and still now, I am holding back and refraining from posting a *lot* of things that I feel, that I know would be considered uncivil at best, so therefore; I can not even fully explain my entire feelings over this.
Due to this situation and the way that it was handled by this other poster and Dr. Bob on the Admin board and in several e-mails between Dr. Bob and myself, I no longer feel safe here. This was the one and *only* place on the net that I felt that I could come to, to feel understood, get support and attempt to offer it back to other posters in return. I no longer feel that way.
I don't know how to convey the depths of how traumatized over this I am. I spend every waking minute thinking about it, crying and unable to get the support that I desperately needed and still do because I was blocked from my only source of doing so. My therapist is on vacation for several weeks and I have absolutely nobody else to which I can turn.
I think it is a known fact here, that I do not handle stress very well, and certainly not in a manner that is very appropriate. I have found that I have had to take Xanax each and every day, even immediately upon awaking because what happened on Admin completely engulfs my every thought. I've taken far more Xanax, than I'm sure would make any of my doctors happy but at this point without support, it's the only thing that has helped me to deal with the tremendous amount of emotional/mental pain that I continue to feel each and every day.
I do want to take a minute to thank a number of posters who have supported me on the Admin board and via Babblemail before I was blocked. I hope I don't forget anyone because it is certainly not intentional and if I have, I deeply apologize. In no particular order, they are coral, toph, TofuEmmy, gabbix, atticus, Nikki, gardengirl, MKB (who is never returning), and fallen. You'll never know how much the support y'all have shown me has meant to me. Blessings to each and every one of you.
fallen sweetie, I was going to try to be strong for you but since that *evil* word is still beside my name, I don't have it in me. I'm sorry, I know I'm letting you down and that in itself saddens me.
I hope those that showed me support via babble-mail, know that I was unable to respond to them due to my block. Receiving that block was a total shock to me to say the least. I feel it has only added insult to injury.
After considerable thought, I feel I can no longer stay in an environment that leads me to continually feel traumatized, with apparently very little empathy for my feelings. Had *that* word been removed, when I begged and pleaded with Dr. Bob in e-mail, maybe I could feel differently, but at the time of writing this post, there it still sits in all it's evil glory to continue to intensify my feelings, as I feel compelled to look several times a day, in hopes that Dr. Bob could understand what this has done and continues to do to me and has the compassion and empathy for me to remove it.
I fail to understand how leaving *that* word is for the betterment of the community at large and I also will never understand how the poster who put it there, regardless of intention, goes completely unpunished, without even a PBC, given the effect it is having on me.
Another reason that I feel I can not stay here is because I obviously don't have the wisdom to understand the PB rules and guidelines and I'm sure that I have probably broken a few in this post. It is certainly not my intention but this is the only way that I know how to express myself, even with holding back *far* more that I wish I could say. I also feel, that this post may be brought to Dr. Bob's attention as being uncivil and that I will be given another block, which will lead me to feel even more hurt, offended, put down and traumatized. It won't matter anyway, as I've already stated that I no longer feel safe being here and it's already been proven that my feelings are a contradiction by what is deemed better for the PB community.
The fact that I no longer feel safe here, is in fact, furthering to traumatize me because as I said, this is the *only* place on the net where I felt safe. Finding PB was a Godsend for me. Now, there is nowhere else for me to go. Once again, I feel that there is nowhere in society that I belong. I feel very isolated and alone, where my feelings stand for nothing.
I will miss y'all more than words can say and I thank you for welcoming me into your community, understanding me, supporting me and giving me a hug when I so very much needed it. Now, I feel that I will have to draw on my own devices for that, and I haven't reached that level in my recovery yet. I will also very much miss lending whatever support that I may have been able to give other posters while I've been here.
With deep regret, this is probably the last post I will ever make. If it is reported to Dr. Bob, I will not defend my words. They are my feelings without intended malice, for whatever they're worth, which I feel is not very much here. That, I feel has already been proven to me.
My decision to leave pains me greatly but I can not stay in what I *thought* was supposed to be a safe environment but in fact is not because Dr. Bob finds it necessary to leave *that* word beside my name on Admin.
I feel so traumatized and that my feelings contradict what is better for the PB community as a whole, something I will never understand.
I will miss the good that I have found here but for my own mental and emotional well-being, I feel I must go. For that, I am so deeply saddened. My depression has taken a far deeper plunge and I now reside in the *black hole* once again. I will withdraw further within myself, as to not allow further opportunity for more hurt feelings to penetrate my soul.
Thanks again for all the goodness that I have received here. I wish you all well and I hope y'all find good health and the happiness and peace that you are all striving for and so very much deserve. Y'all will be in my prayers. Please take care of yourselves. I will miss y'all more than you will know. I feel so lost and alone already. I also feel that something that has been very important to me is being ripped away from me. I'm sooooo depressed over this.
May God bless you all.
With deep regret, good-bye,
An extremely depressed and traumatized Angel Girl :(
PS: Can somebody please explain to me why it is so important to leave that *evil* word beside my name? No words can really explain how traumatized I am by this.Again, I sincerely apologize if I have hurt or offended ANYBODY with this post.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 22, 2005, at 12:18:06
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
I agre ewith everything you have said here. I can't understand how a PBC wasn't given for using that word next to your name.
I hope you do decide to stay though.. for the support and friendship you receive here. I know I have been frustrated beyond belief (hmm, think thats underplaying it!!) here, but at the end of the day, I miss the friendships and the people way too much.
Nikki xx
Posted by Angela2 on January 22, 2005, at 13:16:25
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
Angel Girl,
I really understand where you're coming from. I am sorry this is hurting you so. I wish you would stay, because it is obvious there are people here who care about you and you are getting emotional support here. I guess you have to decide what is best. One piece of advice I have to offer though is that there are many things in this world that we don't like but that we have to put up with. Common things are school, work, inlaws, insensitive families, stupid insurance company rules. Some things may feel like they are hurting you, but they are good things to stick with. It is entirely your decision though. And you are the only one who knows herself here. only you can determine what's best.
Take care,
Angela
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 22, 2005, at 16:20:17
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
AG,
Do you think that if me and you have dialog concerning this that it could be of benifit to you? I base this on that I believe that reasonable people can have misundertandings and that misundertandings can be cleared up, and I think that dialog between us could be a way for this to happen.
If you choose to have dialog with me here, coould you consider the following?
A. Jewish people, like myself, are deeply offended when one writes or says that salvation is only through Jesus Christ. For when jews hear or read that, they have the potential to think that this means that they are worshipping their God in vain because they do not believe in salvation only through Jesus. This can cause serious psychological and emotional destress to some jews and others that do not think that they are worshipping their God in vain.
B. It is my understanding that the Bible referrs to the word in question and that the person is most likely to be a jew according to Jerry Falwell. If one reads your posts, it is evident that you write that you are a christian and to think that the word could mean that you are that person written about in the Bible would have to be explained to me by you for me to understand that.
C. Some christian groups do not think that the word referrs at all to a single person.
D. The word in the subject line has a question mark after it and in your post you wrote that you think that it(the faith board) is antichristian.
E. I did write an apology to you that you may not be aware of and will not use condensed words that could be read as another word.
F. The past prasctice here is to not go back to revisit after an apology is posted.
G. I, being jewish, am restrained from posting the foundation of my faith here and I was involved in the thread in question in order to clarify that the foundation of other faiths that have the potential to put down jews and others also be restrained as to not have the potential for one here to think that the forum endorses [..salvation only through Jesus...].
Lou
Posted by KaraS on January 22, 2005, at 16:23:45
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
Angel Girl,
I feel so bad that you are experiencing this. I can accept that the posting title was an accident but I don't understand why it can't be changed now given the extent of the pain it is causing you. (I'm Jewish and yet I can totally appreciate why this would be so upsetting to you.) It seems like such an easy fix to change that title and with no repercussions. I don't understand.
I'm also sad that you feel you'll be without your one safe support place too. There are other places on line that you might want to check out however. PsychCentral or CrazyMeds are two sites that you might find helpful. Please don't go without any support.
Take care of yourself. We'll miss you.
Kara
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 22, 2005, at 16:39:47
In reply to Re: My block is FINALLY over BUT . . . » Angel Girl, posted by KaraS on January 22, 2005, at 16:23:45
It has been written,[...I can accept that the posting title was an accident...].
I appreciate comments like that.
Also written was,[...I can appreciate why this was upsetting to you...].
I would be glad to hear the reasoning for this from anyone and have dialog with them because of the question mark that I put there and that the poster wrote that it (the faith board) is {antichristian} if [...salvation {only}...] could not be acceptable to be posted in relation to the guidlines of the forum.
Lou
Posted by alexandra_k on January 22, 2005, at 16:54:09
In reply to Lou's response to an aspect of this thread-, posted by Lou Pilder on January 22, 2005, at 16:39:47
I too think that Lou didn't intend to hurt. He didn't even see how someone could take it as hurt without that being explained to him.
But it is clear that you do feel hurt.
WHY CAN'T YOU JUST XXXX THE WHOLE DAMNED WORD OUT DR B?
I don't understand why not.
Perhaps a poll is in order???
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 22, 2005, at 16:58:33
In reply to What a crappy situation..., posted by alexandra_k on January 22, 2005, at 16:54:09
It is written in this thread,[..I too think that Lou did not intend to hurt...].
I appreciate comments like that.
Lou
Posted by malthus on January 22, 2005, at 17:33:59
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
Hi Angel Girl:
I too wish that Dr. Bob would "X" out the word on the subject lines. My hope is that many other posters will post that they too want it x'd out. For Dr. Bob to make an executive decision to do this would be a true demonstration of "mutual support" towards you which I believe is the mission and purpose of this site. Or perhaps he might consider giving some psychological insight and therapy on why this is so upsetting, not to just you, but to others, including myself. I am also hoping that if he decides to do either that you will consider remaining a poster here.
thinking of you
malthus
Posted by alexandra_k on January 22, 2005, at 17:37:17
In reply to Re: My block is FINALLY over BUT . . . » Angel Girl, posted by malthus on January 22, 2005, at 17:33:59
Ok so I shall start a poll over on admin...
So Angel Girl, you have to hang around to see the outcome of the poll, see?
(You are welcome Lou. I don't think I have seen you ever post out of malice)
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 22, 2005, at 17:39:14
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
I do not blame you for how you feel I felt that it was ALL wrong and I was like the first or near first to say so..Being I too have been on the end of what I feel was uncivil by the PBC rules.. and it too was ignored I surely know how you must feel...I am gonna Babble mail You I think I have a place for you a place you will like.....I pray your Babblemail works..I dont want to post my email addy :(
HUGS AND I AM WITH YOU
XOXOXOXOXOX
> Disclaimer: It is not my intention to offend anybody or lead others to feel put down by this post and if that should happen, I sincerely apologize.
>
> I don't think I can stay on PB any longer. I have had a LONG week to reflect on what has happened and with each passing day, my initial feelings have not changed.
>
> I have not been able to sleep well and I've cried endlessly. I feel extremely traumatized by what happened to me on the Admin board.
>
> I have e-mailed Dr. Bob several times and I have told him how I feel and what I needed from him to feel any better, all to no avail.
>
> Replacing the first letter of that *evil* word with an asterisk has not lead me to feel any differently. I think everyone here is smart enough to still know what that *evil* word is, even without the first letter being present.
>
> I do appreciate the very kind efforts of several posters, who have supported me by asking that the word be changed from it's *short-form* back to the entire word and/or by trying to archive the board. Unfortunately, in spite of your very good intentions, neither one of those options would have helped me to feel any better either. Lots of people, including myself read the archives and the word in it's entirety would been equally upsetting to me.
>
> I deeply regret that several posters have received either a PBC or a block for supporting me.
>
> I have tried endlessly to convince Dr. Bob of the depth of my feelings and have begged and pleaded with him to remove *that* short-form and to not replace it with anything else. As you can see, that has not happened.
>
> I was blocked because I called the actions of another poster insensitive. To make it clear, I did not call the poster insensitive but only the actions. I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings but instead continued on with the subject of the thread, leading me to feel even further traumatized than I already was. I felt that my feelings were being swept aside and deemed unimportant, and it was more urgent to discuss the topic of the thread instead. I'm not stating that is how he felt but that is how I interpreted it, not only at the time but still do today. It upsets me even further to see this same poster say that he wants to put everything behind him. I'm glad that is so easy for him to do. Unfortunately for me, it is not. Every waking minute, I think about *that* word beside my name on the subject title and it sickens me. It is irrelevant to me whether he meant any offense by it or not, the end result for me is the same.
>
> I also don't understand when a poster who feels as traumatized as I do by the actions of another poster can go unpunished for what their actions were, intentional or not and then for that poster to ask *me* if I was apologizing to them. Dr. Bob told me that he has made his decision of what action was taken regarding myself and this other poster, for the safety of the whole community, at least that is my understanding.
>
> To be honest, at the time of this all happening and still now, I am holding back and refraining from posting a *lot* of things that I feel, that I know would be considered uncivil at best, so therefore; I can not even fully explain my entire feelings over this.
>
> Due to this situation and the way that it was handled by this other poster and Dr. Bob on the Admin board and in several e-mails between Dr. Bob and myself, I no longer feel safe here. This was the one and *only* place on the net that I felt that I could come to, to feel understood, get support and attempt to offer it back to other posters in return. I no longer feel that way.
>
> I don't know how to convey the depths of how traumatized over this I am. I spend every waking minute thinking about it, crying and unable to get the support that I desperately needed and still do because I was blocked from my only source of doing so. My therapist is on vacation for several weeks and I have absolutely nobody else to which I can turn.
>
> I think it is a known fact here, that I do not handle stress very well, and certainly not in a manner that is very appropriate. I have found that I have had to take Xanax each and every day, even immediately upon awaking because what happened on Admin completely engulfs my every thought. I've taken far more Xanax, than I'm sure would make any of my doctors happy but at this point without support, it's the only thing that has helped me to deal with the tremendous amount of emotional/mental pain that I continue to feel each and every day.
>
> I do want to take a minute to thank a number of posters who have supported me on the Admin board and via Babblemail before I was blocked. I hope I don't forget anyone because it is certainly not intentional and if I have, I deeply apologize. In no particular order, they are coral, toph, TofuEmmy, gabbix, atticus, Nikki, gardengirl, MKB (who is never returning), and fallen. You'll never know how much the support y'all have shown me has meant to me. Blessings to each and every one of you.
>
> fallen sweetie, I was going to try to be strong for you but since that *evil* word is still beside my name, I don't have it in me. I'm sorry, I know I'm letting you down and that in itself saddens me.
>
> I hope those that showed me support via babble-mail, know that I was unable to respond to them due to my block. Receiving that block was a total shock to me to say the least. I feel it has only added insult to injury.
>
> After considerable thought, I feel I can no longer stay in an environment that leads me to continually feel traumatized, with apparently very little empathy for my feelings. Had *that* word been removed, when I begged and pleaded with Dr. Bob in e-mail, maybe I could feel differently, but at the time of writing this post, there it still sits in all it's evil glory to continue to intensify my feelings, as I feel compelled to look several times a day, in hopes that Dr. Bob could understand what this has done and continues to do to me and has the compassion and empathy for me to remove it.
>
> I fail to understand how leaving *that* word is for the betterment of the community at large and I also will never understand how the poster who put it there, regardless of intention, goes completely unpunished, without even a PBC, given the effect it is having on me.
>
> Another reason that I feel I can not stay here is because I obviously don't have the wisdom to understand the PB rules and guidelines and I'm sure that I have probably broken a few in this post. It is certainly not my intention but this is the only way that I know how to express myself, even with holding back *far* more that I wish I could say. I also feel, that this post may be brought to Dr. Bob's attention as being uncivil and that I will be given another block, which will lead me to feel even more hurt, offended, put down and traumatized. It won't matter anyway, as I've already stated that I no longer feel safe being here and it's already been proven that my feelings are a contradiction by what is deemed better for the PB community.
>
> The fact that I no longer feel safe here, is in fact, furthering to traumatize me because as I said, this is the *only* place on the net where I felt safe. Finding PB was a Godsend for me. Now, there is nowhere else for me to go. Once again, I feel that there is nowhere in society that I belong. I feel very isolated and alone, where my feelings stand for nothing.
>
> I will miss y'all more than words can say and I thank you for welcoming me into your community, understanding me, supporting me and giving me a hug when I so very much needed it. Now, I feel that I will have to draw on my own devices for that, and I haven't reached that level in my recovery yet. I will also very much miss lending whatever support that I may have been able to give other posters while I've been here.
>
> With deep regret, this is probably the last post I will ever make. If it is reported to Dr. Bob, I will not defend my words. They are my feelings without intended malice, for whatever they're worth, which I feel is not very much here. That, I feel has already been proven to me.
>
> My decision to leave pains me greatly but I can not stay in what I *thought* was supposed to be a safe environment but in fact is not because Dr. Bob finds it necessary to leave *that* word beside my name on Admin.
>
> I feel so traumatized and that my feelings contradict what is better for the PB community as a whole, something I will never understand.
>
> I will miss the good that I have found here but for my own mental and emotional well-being, I feel I must go. For that, I am so deeply saddened. My depression has taken a far deeper plunge and I now reside in the *black hole* once again. I will withdraw further within myself, as to not allow further opportunity for more hurt feelings to penetrate my soul.
>
> Thanks again for all the goodness that I have received here. I wish you all well and I hope y'all find good health and the happiness and peace that you are all striving for and so very much deserve. Y'all will be in my prayers. Please take care of yourselves. I will miss y'all more than you will know. I feel so lost and alone already. I also feel that something that has been very important to me is being ripped away from me. I'm sooooo depressed over this.
>
> May God bless you all.
>
> With deep regret, good-bye,
> An extremely depressed and traumatized Angel Girl :(
>
> PS: Can somebody please explain to me why it is so important to leave that *evil* word beside my name? No words can really explain how traumatized I am by this.
>
> Again, I sincerely apologize if I have hurt or offended ANYBODY with this post.
Posted by malthus on January 22, 2005, at 17:41:32
In reply to Re: My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by alexandra_k on January 22, 2005, at 17:37:17
Posted by Atticus on January 22, 2005, at 19:09:20
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
Wish you'd give it another go, Angel Girl. I'll miss you, and it was well worth taking a PBC to defend you and criticize the policy that left the word next to your name in the subject line. I've walked away from PB twice myself. Always find some excuse to come back (tonight, there's literally a blizzard outside -- you should hear the winds coming up First Avenue. Sheesh.). But you need to do what's best for yourself. Do try to remember that there was a lot of support for you from those of us who have almost constantly had contentious relationships with Dr. B precisely because of bullsh*t like what happened to you. Anyway, I've just posted a poem on Writing where God makes a pleasant cameo appearance and demonstrates that things tend to work out in the end. If this is the last communication between us, good luck, Angel. But I still hope I'm wrong and you'll pop in for a visit at least. Your kid sidekick, Atticus, whose confirmation name is borrowed from an angel: Michael
Posted by partlycloudy on January 23, 2005, at 7:19:57
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
First of all, I want to say how much I think you contribute to the Babble boards, and that if you decide to leave permanently, I will truly miss your presence.
I have been adding my 2 cents here for a few dollars' worth now. I have have angst filled days and weeks due to Babble-induced fury and hurt. I too have had to rely on too much xanax at times because of how I allowed Babble to affect me. Anyone here who knows me by now realizes that not only am I non-confrontational, I run away from it. The few times I have become embroiled in exchanges here that led me to be angry, outraged, and determined to leave for what I believed to be my best interests, have not kept me away for very long.
You'll see that I'm still here. The support, friendship and most importantly, the *kinship* I feel with the people here far outweigh the difficult and painful times I've experienced. The group dynamic of Babble is something unusual for me. I'm a solitary, almost anti-social, lonely person IRL, yet I can speak in front of a room full of people with apparent ease. I guess Babble is my equivalent of a room full of people. I feel at ease "speaking" here.I have railed against the policies and practices put in place here when I felt they were unfair or incorrect. There are some - very few - posters here with whom I've chosen not to communicate with, because of how I react when a thread has gone awry. It's my choice: which boards I read and post on, and even which posters I decide to engage in discussions with. I've had to consciously make those decisions in how I use this place for my own good.
You can see from the responses this thread has provoked just how important people view your participation here. None of us want to see you go; none of us want you to experience the anxiety and upset that you have. I thought that for my own good, I would have to leave Babble altogether. In the end, I decided to come back because for me the benefits still outweigh the risks.
I hope that you are able to reach the same conclusion, Angel Girl, because I would dearly miss you from here.
There are other forums similar to Babble out there on the 'net. I explore, try them out, and keep coming back to where I feel most comfortable.
Posted by malthus on January 23, 2005, at 8:29:16
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2005, at 10:54:26
In reply to My block is FINALLY over BUT . . ., posted by Angel Girl on January 22, 2005, at 11:40:42
> I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 12:01:14
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Angel Girl, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2005, at 10:54:26
> > I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings
>
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
I'm very sorry Dr. Bob. If I knew how, I would but I don't understand the "I statement" enough to do so. I'm sorry that I don't have the intelligence to grasp it. I was stating how *I* feel, not what Lou may or may not feel. Please forgive me. :(AG
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 13:28:30
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 12:01:14
> > > I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings
> >
> > Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
> >
> > If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bob
>
>
> I'm very sorry Dr. Bob. If I knew how, I would but I don't understand the "I statement" enough to do so. I'm sorry that I don't have the intelligence to grasp it. I was stating how *I* feel, not what Lou may or may not feel. Please forgive me. :(
>
> AG
>Dr. Bob
I have read the FAQ several times. Could you please be of assistance or perhaps another poster and rephrase my comment for me so that I may hopefully learn alternative ways to make comments that will not lead others to feel put down and offended?
Thank you!
AG
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 13:49:17
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 13:28:30
> I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings.
I have struggled with the civility rules too. When talking about my response to Lou even :-) All I can say is that it is something that becomes clearer over time - though I admit I still struggle with it a bit at times. I do think that there is a logic there, but one that is hard to make explicit. I do think that there is a benefit to being able to follow the civility rules. I have come to see that some things aren't acceptable that I thought were fine. And I have also come to understand WHY they are not ok.
Ok. My best shot would be:
I think the issue is that tagging 'I feel' on the front of something is often not enough to moderate what goes after. Sometimes it is, but in some instances it is not. This is one of the latter. To say that you felt that the poster showed extremely little concern for your feelings is to say that you didn't accept either (a) that Lou did not intentionally hurt you or (b) that his apology to you was not genuine.
Lou isn't profuse with apologies.
IMO he was genuine and that is the best you (or anyone) will get.
I would like to hear what other people think if anyone else has ideas...
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 15:46:07
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob » Angel Girl, posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2005, at 13:49:17
One way I have used to check myself on "I" statements is to try to leave the other person completely out of the statement whenever possible. The idea is to state what you are feeling or thinking and to "own" that without placing the cause or "ownership" onto the other person.
For example, (and please note, I am using these statements for explanatory purposes, not to support or condone the content in any way)... Angel Girl's statement: I felt and still do, that this poster payed extremely little *concern* for my feelings.
reads to me that she is making a statement about Lou's apparent concern or lack of it.
What I think is the part that Angel Girl is feeling (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that she continues to feel hurt by this incident. So, using an "I" statement that places the ownership of the feeling with AG:
"I continue to feel hurt in regards to this incident." or
"I feel overlooked" or
"I am not satisfied" or
"I am angry"I think one of the reasons this is hard is that it is more risky personally, to express feelings as entirely our own. We often feel safer and more secure believing that others may be the "cause" of our feelings, particularly negative ones. But regardless of what may have triggered them, our feelings are our own. Using "I" statements helps to clarify that distinction, and thus, helps to avoid perpetuating hurt feelings back and forth. Because for example, I may argue that I did not do what someone accuses me of or that I had nothing to do with your anger, but I can't argue that you are angry.
Does this help at all?
gg
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 16:13:47
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 15:46:07
I understand what you're saying about taking ownership of my feelings and I realize (through therapy) that I *choose* how to react to things. BUT if I was to say that "I continue to feel hurt." and not give the reason why, others will think it is only because of that word still being in the subject line, which it is, but also for another reason that it seems that I am not allowed to state, as it will lead someone to feel hurt and put down. Therefore; the other person's feelings are spared, which I don't have a problem with, but nobody will understand what *exactly* is continuing to upset me.
AG
Posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 16:26:18
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob (alexandra) » gardenergirl, posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 16:13:47
Well, I do understand how it might be incomplete the way I wrote it. Although in this case, I think everyone knows how you are feeling, and you are getting tons of support on that.
Perhaps "I continue to feel hurt when I see that word by my name"?
Although I wonder if you may be also wishing to say something along the lines of "you didn't give a flying fig for my feelings?" And if so, perhaps you could say "I feel uncared for [or neglected or overlooked] when I see my name and that word in the same line."
But then again, perhaps I am not quite understanding what is continuing to upset you.
gg
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 16:30:38
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob (alexandra) » Angel Girl, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 16:26:18
I feel like you must feel abused to have that word by your name :( Am I correct? It makes me sad....and kinda mad
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 17:24:03
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob / AG, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 23, 2005, at 16:30:38
an I statement??? Yes no???? if not sorry I am just trying to help her
> I feel like you must feel abused to have that word by your name :( Am I correct? It makes me sad....and kinda mad
Posted by Angel Girl on January 23, 2005, at 17:27:25
In reply to Re: please rephrase that - PS Dr. Bob (alexandra) » Angel Girl, posted by gardenergirl on January 23, 2005, at 16:26:18
That is why I need the ability to clarify it. I did mention the reason in my original post here but Dr. Bob ommitted that part in his 'please rephrase that' to me.
Yes, it is certainly the word still being there. I feel very traumatized by that but there is more that it seems I can not clarify or at least know how to rephrase to not cause hurt feelings. Hint: It is not for any action to be taken against any poster, I'm beyond that now, although I certainly was upset about that in the beginning. I'm sorry, I *really* don't know how to phrase things properly here; hence my 2nd reason I stated for the need to leave. Maybe all these drugs have fried my brain to the point that I am no longer able to comprehend things anymore. I don't know, at this point I think I'm just rambling and saying nothing that makes any sense to anybody other than me. :(
AG
> Well, I do understand how it might be incomplete the way I wrote it. Although in this case, I think everyone knows how you are feeling, and you are getting tons of support on that.
>
> Perhaps "I continue to feel hurt when I see that word by my name"?
>
> Although I wonder if you may be also wishing to say something along the lines of "you didn't give a flying fig for my feelings?" And if so, perhaps you could say "I feel uncared for [or neglected or overlooked] when I see my name and that word in the same line."
>
> But then again, perhaps I am not quite understanding what is continuing to upset you.
>
> gg
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