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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cricket on January 17, 2006, at 15:45:26
So what do you know about "spontaneous sympathy"? Some theory of Wittgenstein?
My therapist mentioned it to me today.
Immediately a ding went off in my head - got to ask Alex about that.
Ever heard anything about it?
What is it about Wittgenstein? I seem to be running into his name a lot these days.
Yet, I must confess I know nothing about him.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 17, 2006, at 18:27:54
In reply to Hey Alex - Wittgenstein, posted by cricket on January 17, 2006, at 15:45:26
> So what do you know about "spontaneous sympathy"?
Never heard of it...
> Some theory of Wittgenstein?
Not that I know of, but then I haven't read everything of his. Haven't managed to find anything via Google though...
> My therapist mentioned it to me today.Hmm. What did he say?
> What is it about Wittgenstein? I seem to be running into his name a lot these days.Hmm. He is sometimes considered a genuis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein
Known mostly for...
His stuff on language games (we do many things with language make claims about the world, tell stories, tell jokes, sing songs etc).
His stuff on family resemblance concepts (there are no necessary and jointly sufficient conditions that something must have in order to count as a 'game' but the different things that count as games are similar to one another in various ways...)
Rule following (required for language and if language is rule governed and you need more than one person for there to be a rule then there cannot be an idiolect (a language that only one person can speak).
Also... he was something of a behaviorist regarding the mind. So he talks about meaning as use and thinking as doing etc.Not sure how this relates...
Posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 23:46:03
In reply to Hey Alex - Wittgenstein, posted by cricket on January 17, 2006, at 15:45:26
sorry my answer wasn't so helpful...
but don't let me scare you away ;-)
how are you doing?
Posted by cricket on January 23, 2006, at 9:17:03
In reply to Re: Hey Cricket - Wittgenstein » cricket, posted by alexandra_k on January 17, 2006, at 18:27:54
Hi Alex,
I'm okay. Just so crazy busy at work that I couldn't even go to the bathroom.
Then I got sick. A bit better, but still lightheaded and tired.
Anyway, back to the "spontaneous sympathy"
I was trying to tell my therapist about how so many parts of me see him as an authority figure and how hard that makes it for me to be open, trusting, etc.
I had this image that I told him about - I was in a welfare office (public assistance but I called it welfare which is telling)shoving my forms under the bullet proof glass for approval. He was the worker behind the bullet proof glass and he had this big REJECT stamp which he stamped in red all over my papers. So I kept on giving him smaller and smaller bits of paper hoping that they would just be too tiny for the REJECT stamp.
He thought it was a perfect description of the way I act in therapy. Tiny bits of information most of which is completely inscrutable.
That led to the discussion of what it will take for me to feel comfortable enough to talk in therapy. That's where "spontaneous sympathy" comes in.
He talked about his three year old son who has recently begun to talk a lot. Most of it, he says, is silly nonsense but he loves to hear it so more and more comes out - spontaneous sympathy.
Then he says "unless I really screw this up, you will get to that point too."
So maybe it is the language stuff from Wittgenstein that made him think of that.
I hope you're doing okay, Alex. I haven't been reading on Babble.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2006, at 18:55:24
In reply to Re: Hey Cricket - Wittgenstein » alexandra_k, posted by cricket on January 23, 2006, at 9:17:03
Hey.
That was a vivid image. I am like that in therapy too. And in life sometimes. It can be hard when what you most want is to connect, but at the same time what you are most afraid of is rejection.Trust is a hard one for me too. I feel like the walking wounded much of the time, and the tiniest little hint of rejection (or a miscommunication interpreted as a rejection) can result in my feeling all those feelings that I had as a kid. Just wanting to curl up and die. Even when I rationally know I'm being unreasonable it doesn't seem to have all that much affect on the feelings. Sometimes I feel stronger and it doesn't get to me. But I think that the more I care about being able to connect with someone the more power they have to hurt me with a comment or a look or whatever.
I think trust takes time. It is hard... Because I think it is good to be trusting in general (to a certain extent). Because people are likely to rise to our expectations. But at the same time when one is so vulnerable to those horrible feelings... One is probably wise to be cautious. But how to balance those...
I think it does get better in time. I remember when you used to post on the psychology board about your therapist and you weren't sure whether he cared about you / liked you or not. It sounds like you have moved on from that, and moved on from interpreting his words as intended criticisms etc. Maybe your break kind of showed him that he really did need to be more careful and caring in general? I don't know. But it does sound like you have made some progress on that.
> So maybe it is the language stuff from Wittgenstein that made him think of that.
Maybe... Maybe it is about one of the language games (functions of language) being to seek a connection with someone. A meaningful connection. To feel connected. And respected. And liked. And approved of. And so the particular words (babbles) don't matter so much as the connection. But it does take trust. And trust does take time. Especially when one has bad experiences. Especially when it doesn't take much sometimes to trigger off all those bad experiences.
The therapist that I worked okay with... I would take little tiny risks of sharing something with her. And when she didn't judge / condemn / respond with disgust / disapproval etc then it was easier to take a little tiny risk next time. And so I'd take them more often. And I'd take slightly bigger risks. It is slow. Really very slow. And sometimes things are going well and progress is faster. And sometimes things aren't going so well and one seems to revert. But over time... There is progress. And I think you have made a fair bit already :-) But I understand that things are still really hard.
I'm doing okay. A bit circumspect and quiet at the moment. A few steps back maybe. I'm not sure. But I'm still around. And I'm hanging in there.Sorry you have been sick and so busy at work. Hope you have a little bit of time to do something nice for yourself. I miss chatting to you, but understand that sometimes life can be really hectic for a while. Hang in there.
:-)
This is the end of the thread.
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