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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 8, 2006, at 11:42:00
I have never used a forum like this before so I am not sure how this works, but here I go. I have an aversion to touch. Not all touch... just the people closest to me (i.e. mother, husband, etc). I have no problem with babies, children, massage therapist, etc. There is no physical pain involved, just panic and anxiety. I am in therapy for this among many other things, and my therapist suggested Sensate Focus as a means to working on my aversion to touch from my husband. After reading up on it, this approach seems a bit extreme to start with. Has anyone had luck with something a little less intrusive? I just don't think I can stomach Sensate Focus. It's too much too soon.
Posted by Declan on November 8, 2006, at 13:28:03
In reply to Touch Aversion, posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 8, 2006, at 11:42:00
Hello
I'm not at all familiar with sensate focus, but when I was 17, and for a decade after, I couldn't stand being touched. (What an absolute waste. If I was 17 now....) I always felt as if it was part of some kind of plan to control me, and I would feel depersonalised and would either put up with it or not, always feeling obscurely humiliated.
Thirty years later I find no great problems.
I don't think you should think of your aversion to touch as something to be got rid of. It is certainly (IMO) a tragedy that people can end up in this situation, but your aversion to touch is trying to tell you something, and it is your task to figure out what.
Declan
Posted by corafree on November 8, 2006, at 16:36:11
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » BR78MF74MJ06, posted by Declan on November 8, 2006, at 13:28:03
I didn't used to like 'touch', but once I learned to 'touch w/ intention' -or- to touch another w/ my empathy and my strength (a conscious effort to let them feel they have someone to lean on), I realized that is what is often missing when another touches me, and that is what makes 'their touch' uncomfortable.
Try it, if you understand what I'm saying. Feelin' funky today. Anyway, it's a very caring and humane way to connect w/ others. Touch w/ intention to let them draw from your strength.
It may give you some insight into the prob' of certain peeps touching you.
welcome, cf
Posted by Declan on November 8, 2006, at 17:05:10
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » Declan, posted by corafree on November 8, 2006, at 16:36:11
Some people are so nice. At the crazy radio station I say 'Hello' to whoever, and she might say 'Hello Darling' and come and kiss my head, and place a hand on my shoulder, and it's all really lovely. But it wasn't always so easy, and from when I was 10 to when I was 16???? It can, and used to be, a wasteland, especially for boys.
Posted by corafree on November 8, 2006, at 21:03:24
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » corafree, posted by Declan on November 8, 2006, at 17:05:10
> Some people are so nice. At the crazy radio station I say 'Hello' to whoever, and she might say 'Hello Darling' and come and kiss my head, and place a hand on my shoulder, and it's all really lovely. But it wasn't always so easy, and from when I was 10 to when I was 16???? It can, and used to be, a wasteland, especially for boys>
>What ya' mean by last five words Declan?
cf
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 8, 2006, at 21:32:33
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » Declan, posted by corafree on November 8, 2006, at 21:03:24
Hi BR78,
You're not alone. A lot of people feel uncomfortable with hugging, pats on the arm/shoulder, or intimacy.If you can enjoy and get benefits from massage, then you are probably more comfortable with touch than many people.
What specific situations are uncomfortable for you, and why do you think that may be? If you don't want to post about it, just think about it in your head for a bit.
At any rate, welcome to Psycho-Babble. :) I hope you stick around. There's no touching here, but every once in a while we do this thing (((()))) and those are symbolic of hugs. They are gentle safe cyber hugs, and you can ignore them if you aren't ready to accept them.
best,
-Li
Posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 8, 2006, at 21:52:35
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion, posted by Lindenblüte on November 8, 2006, at 21:32:33
As with most things... I am definitely not like most people. I have an aversion to any show of affection from loved ones. I have been self medicating the problem with alcohol for years, but since I got pregnant with my daughter 16 months ago I have had to stop drinking (I want her to have a much different childhood than I had so I cannot start drinking again). I have no problem with affectionate touch from strangers (this has gotten me into trouble in the past). It's just loved ones. I really don't understand it. There are a great number of things that I don't understand about myself. Sometimes I feel like I am walking around with a really big secret inside me that I haven't even told myself. Does that make any sense? And yes, I think I will stick around for a while. Kind of feels like home here. There aren't many places that are accepting of my eccentricities.
> Hi BR78,
> You're not alone. A lot of people feel uncomfortable with hugging, pats on the arm/shoulder, or intimacy.
>
> If you can enjoy and get benefits from massage, then you are probably more comfortable with touch than many people.
>
> What specific situations are uncomfortable for you, and why do you think that may be? If you don't want to post about it, just think about it in your head for a bit.
>
> At any rate, welcome to Psycho-Babble. :) I hope you stick around. There's no touching here, but every once in a while we do this thing (((()))) and those are symbolic of hugs. They are gentle safe cyber hugs, and you can ignore them if you aren't ready to accept them.
>
> best,
> -Li
Posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2006, at 22:15:34
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » Lindenblüte, posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 8, 2006, at 21:52:35
I will google sesate focus. Love Phillipa. And yes welcome to babble
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 8, 2006, at 22:31:27
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » Lindenblüte, posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 8, 2006, at 21:52:35
oopsie,
congratulations, you just did your very first "double-post"Now you KNOW you're at home!
You've been granted amnesty, however-- so no stress.
We are not only accepting of your eccentricities, we expect them :)
Have you talked about your aversion to affectionate touch with your T? Do you know when this started?
I don't think you're the only one out there. I have a general aversion to touching men, or having men touch me. I can fake being comfortable, but it's difficult under many circumstances. Only two men in my life I've ever felt truly comfortable with. (I'm a woman)
guess what happened to me as a kid? I experienced violence from my father and older brother. chronic and unpredictable. I never thought it was a big deal at all until after 4 months of therapy when I started to understand the extent of my dissociative reactions to stress. Anyways, that's what I'm working on right now in therapy.
You may have a very different reason/source for your anxiety, but keep an open mind as you work on this. If you think that body-work will help you understand it, then by all means - go for it.
But if the body-work (or any other experience) starts to stir up uncomfortable feelings, please take good care of yourself.
-Li
Posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 8, 2006, at 22:43:34
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion **child abuse trigger** » BR78MF74MJ06, posted by Lindenblüte on November 8, 2006, at 22:31:27
I have talked to my T about it, and she recommended Sensate Focus therapy with my husband. This involves naked massage, both giving and receiving in a nonsexual way at first and working up to a more sexual experience.
Hello?! This just seems so extreme. I just had a baby 8 months ago. I am horribly overweight, feel like complete crap about my body, and have an aversion to touch. So I should get naked and let someone touch me?!
Okay, I feel better now. I just had to let that out. I could understand why I don't like my mom being affectionate towards me, she treated me like crap through most of my childhood. But my husband? He has been nothing but kind, supportive, and loving. Everytime he comes within 6-12 inches of me I have to fight the urge to run and hide or lash out at him. And this extends to everyone I am closest to in my life. I don't really have any friends so that's not an issue, but family is. I can't pinpoint when this started, but I think it has been happening since sometime in adolescence. Most of my problems starting in Junior High School and have gradually gotten worse from there.
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 8, 2006, at 23:15:05
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion **child abuse trigger**, posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 8, 2006, at 22:43:34
I'm so sorry that you're having problems being comfortable around your guy. That's REALLY hard :(
Sensate Focus sounds pretty intense. Ummm... I don't think I could do most of that even withOUT a stranger present!
Being overweight does not make you more or less deserving of the right to enjoy a tender touch. It does not make you more or less loveable.
It might make you more self-conscious, though...
I'm glad that you're able to think about this stuff clearly. You sound like you've made a lot of progress already.
Do you take any medications? anti-anxiety stuff? medication is usually healthier than alcohol.
anyways, I wish the best for you- you can always try out the sensate focus therapy and ditch it after a few weeks if it seems hokey or really traumatic.
hang in there- you'll figure it out. You'll get through this
-Li
Posted by Declan on November 9, 2006, at 1:35:39
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » Declan, posted by corafree on November 8, 2006, at 21:03:24
was that for boys (in the past and for all I know now) there could be long bits of times when noone touched you.
This may have had something to do with turning boys into men, or some other such nonsense.
Posted by corafree on November 9, 2006, at 1:47:25
In reply to What I meant » corafree, posted by Declan on November 9, 2006, at 1:35:39
I see. That would be pretty sad.
tks, cf
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 9, 2006, at 8:52:21
In reply to What I meant » corafree, posted by Declan on November 9, 2006, at 1:35:39
> was that for boys (in the past and for all I know now) there could be long bits of times when noone touched you.
> This may have had something to do with turning boys into men, or some other such nonsense.My childhood-adolescence was like this. I think I hugged my grandparents when I saw them twice a year, and doctor's visits. That's pretty much it.
-Li
Posted by Declan on November 9, 2006, at 19:06:40
In reply to Re: What I meant » Declan, posted by Lindenblüte on November 9, 2006, at 8:52:21
A good example is a man here (20 years ago now) who committed suicide after police found records in his house of instances of sex with over 1000 boys.
Not one of the boys had complained, and one reason put forward was that adolescent boys are often very lonely for touch.
Things are changing along with the idea of what it means to be a man.
Posted by BR78MF74MJ06 on November 9, 2006, at 19:22:10
In reply to Re: Touch Aversion » BR78MF74MJ06, posted by Lindenblüte on November 8, 2006, at 23:15:05
I am currently on Prozac and Wellbutrin. Prozac is the best thing to happen to me ever! I have been in and out of therapy and on and off of AD's for the last 8 years. This is the first time I have had much success. This is probably going to come across wrong, but I have always had a clear understanding of my problems largely due to high IQ. I have to say it sucks to be intelligent and insightful enough to recognize and reason out that there is a problem, but completely inept at solving it. I recognized that I had a problem (not just touch aversion) at around age 12 or 13 when I noticed I was not like the other kids. Things just got worse from there. I am going to try to find something less extreme than sensate focus. I just don't think I could stand up to that kind of pressure. If anyone knows of alternative therapies for this type of problem, let me know!
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 10, 2006, at 5:09:07
In reply to Re: What I meant, posted by Declan on November 9, 2006, at 19:06:40
But what about their mothers? Didn't they give them hugs and stuff? Or girlfriends? Huh. Well I wonder if this sort of thing is true in those mediterrranean countries were everyone kisses each other as a greeting. In Southern Italy even the men kiss each other once on each cheek when they meet/depart. I find it a really nice habit actually. Very civil!!
When I was a student, we all used to sit about and give each other back rubs or blow dry each others hair. I guess I'm a chick, so its probably more acceptable!
Posted by Declan on November 10, 2006, at 12:34:57
In reply to Re: What I meant » Declan, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 10, 2006, at 5:09:07
Sometime ago some mothers felt that if they did not withdraw from their sons they wouldn't grow up to be men.
This sometimes found a gross expression like the English family who felt that touch would ruin their son and restricted everything to shaking hands.
All that's in the past, thank goodness.
Posted by corafree on November 11, 2006, at 14:57:23
In reply to Re: What I meant » Declan, posted by Meri-Tuuli on November 10, 2006, at 5:09:07
This has really been an 'eye-opener' 4me.
There have been times I've touched someone on the shoulder or back, and they've pulled away.
I thought it meant they didn't like me (duh). Or, that I wasn't 'good enough' to touch them.
I think I would have wished they'd said, 'don't worry, it's not you, I have a prob' w/ anyone touching me'. Actually, I don't think I made that statement up. I think a person said it to me. I appreciated it. It was a person in a DBT group. Then, we went on to talk.
My mother wasn't 'touching w/ me', but she was w/ my sister. I remember I'd watch them and 'be gel-us(?)'.
But, I was, as I recall my father's big hands and the feel of them patting me on the back .. like 'everything's okay .. I'm here'. My grandmother did that also .. his mother.
Everyone should get that gift. I'll proceed to remember to do that to my son more often.
cf
Posted by Lindenblüte on November 11, 2006, at 15:16:36
In reply to Re: What I meant, posted by corafree on November 11, 2006, at 14:57:23
hi Cora,
it's funny- when people pat me on the back or the shoulder or something and I startle or shirk, I am usually so uncomfortable that to put it in WORDS would be pretty mortifying. Oh- sorry about that, it's not that I don't like you (uncle, violin teacher, friend, stranger, coworker) it's just that I have personal space issues and you surprised me...It ranges from inconvenient- on a crowded train I will have to bump against someone; to downright sickening- at a bar, a drunk guy will get gropey before he even introduces himself. In such situations I react instinctively by shoving him away.
I DO feel bad when I react this way to someone who is a close friend, but the truth is that it makes me feel bad either way -
damned if you do (tell them you don't like to be touched- so easily misinterpreted as "I'm a crazy freak" "I don't trust you enough to touch my precious shoulder" "you are scaring me" etc.
damned if you don't (grin and bear a shoulder pat and it may give the patter positive reinforcement, and make me feel very uncomfortable at having to pretend with a close friend)
ugh.
where's my invisibility cloak?
-Li
Posted by corafree on November 11, 2006, at 18:36:01
In reply to Re: What I meant » corafree, posted by Lindenblüte on November 11, 2006, at 15:16:36
If you had a booger hangin' out of your nose, I'd quickly point it out Li! I'd want to spare you embarrassment.
Hate it when I come home and 'there's one hangin' there' .. ya' know, or just a 'little end of one', and you can't believe not one person told you! It could have been there all freakin' day long!!!
But yeah ... some peeps would rather let 'em just hang there I guess, as some will look at me, after tell them to spare them embarrassment, like, 'What? Is my booger bothering you?', ... like I'm the one with the issue.
I think their the ones w/ the issue .. a personal hygiene issue!
I think I just won't look back at them next time I SAVE them!
honest2fault, cf
cf
Posted by Declan on November 12, 2006, at 1:40:56
In reply to Re: What I meant » Lindenblüte, posted by corafree on November 11, 2006, at 18:36:01
Oh, and you musn't appear awkward, either.
Posted by corafree on November 12, 2006, at 12:47:43
In reply to Re: What I meant, posted by Declan on November 12, 2006, at 1:40:56
> Oh, and you musn't appear awkward, either.
Totally, a very difficult situation that requires proper handling.
HA Ha ha?
This prob' isn't too funny 4 those who began this post/thread w/ issues of 'human interaction'. It can be very sad. Empathy required.
cf
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