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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 15:38:54
I don't normally like to spill my problems on babble, but would really appreciate some feedback on this one.
I am a non-Christian, but don't mind celebrating a secular type of Christmas with my family, who are Christians, as far as dinner and gifts go. But I do not feel comfortable taking place in any religous activities.
A close relative who has been there for me through thick and thin is requesting that I attend Christmas Eve church service with them. And they are laying on the guilt HEAVY, requesting my presence for "support" because two very close relatives of theirs passed away this year. There will be several other family members attending with this person, so they are not going alone.
I fear this will fracture our relationship and don't know what to do. I have politely informed this person of my views and stressed that while it is (questionably) alright to ask for my presence, that making a big deal of it beyond that is not appropriate. I have expressed total support and willingness to do anything together at anytime during the holidays except attend a church service. I would never expect someone to attend a religous ceremony which they did not believe in.
Basically it comes down to me attending a religous ceremony with which I do not agree or hurting this person by not attending. I guess either way damages the relationship.
Posted by madeline on December 21, 2006, at 15:58:23
In reply to Need advice on Christmas Eve, posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 15:38:54
Would you go to a church wedding in which a pastor officiated?
I would just relax and go enjoy the music and the pagentry. Try to think of yourself as a tourist.
Who knows you might enjoy it.
However, I do think your friend is perhaps pushing the limit of what your are comfortable with and at a later time I would discuss this with them.
Maddie
Posted by TexasChic on December 21, 2006, at 18:33:47
In reply to Re: Need advice on Christmas Eve » saturn, posted by madeline on December 21, 2006, at 15:58:23
Personally l would be pretty pissed that someone was trying to manipulate me that way. A true friend wouldn't want you to do something that made you uncomfortable. And I don't see how you being there would make any difference one way or another - other than making that person feel superior.
-T
Posted by Poet on December 21, 2006, at 18:41:35
In reply to Need advice on Christmas Eve, posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 15:38:54
Hi saturn,
I hate it when people try to guilt me into doing something that I would never ask them to do for me. I have no religion, I was not raised in any religion, I have attended religious services only through weddings and funerals. In those cases I knew the happy couple or the deceased: I felt I belonged there. I would feel very out of place at a church service, and I would feel like I was taking up space that someone who attended the church should be seated in.
If I were in your situation, I would nicely explain to my relative that I am not comfortable attending the service, but will be happy to celebrate their holiday by joining them for dinner.
I'm sorry you're feeling pressured, I hope you can work out something and not have to end the relationship with your family member.
Poet
Posted by TexasChic on December 21, 2006, at 18:51:18
In reply to Re: Need advice on Christmas Eve, posted by TexasChic on December 21, 2006, at 18:33:47
... if saying no to this person ruins the friendship, then its their fault, not yours. You have the right to stand up for yourself and your own beliefs. If this person doesn't agree with that, then they only want to manipultate you (although they may not consciously realize that's what they're doing).
-T
Posted by fayeroe on December 21, 2006, at 19:26:51
In reply to Another thought..., posted by TexasChic on December 21, 2006, at 18:51:18
i agree with TexasChic and Poet. i really feel that it's unfair of a "friend" to put that kind of pressure upon you.........good luck, pat
Posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 19:30:58
In reply to Re: Need advice on Christmas Eve, posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 19:28:42
> >>Would you go to a church wedding in which a pastor officiated?
>
> Absolutely, but a wedding is a legal proceding, not a religous ceremony. It's similiar to the difference of appropriateness between an alcoholic going to a wedding where alcohol happens to be served versus going to a bar where alcohol consumption is the main event.
> > >I would just relax and go enjoy the music and the pagentry. Try to think of yourself as a tourist.
Thank you so much for your response madeline, and I don't want to be dismissive, but I simply cannot go. I cannot disrespect my values this way.
>
> >> Who knows you might enjoy it.
> >
> > >However, I do think your friend is perhaps pushing the limit of what your are comfortable with and at a later time I would discuss this with them.
I agree completely---thanks!
> >>>Maddie
Peace...Saturn
Posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 19:37:45
In reply to Re: Need advice on Christmas Eve, posted by TexasChic on December 21, 2006, at 18:33:47
>>Personally l would be pretty pissed that someone was trying to manipulate me that way. A true friend wouldn't want you to do something that made you uncomfortable. And I don't see how you being there would make any difference one way or another - other than making that person feel superior.
Apparently my comfort level doesn't matter...or more likely this person does not appreciate how someone possibly could feel uncomfortable.
I can't see how it would help either, but I'm willing to just accept that it would. It's unfortunate this has become a devicive subject.
Posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 19:43:33
In reply to Re: Need advice on Christmas Eve » saturn, posted by Poet on December 21, 2006, at 18:41:35
> Hi saturn,
>
> I hate it when people try to guilt me into doing something that I would never ask them to do for me. I have no religion, I was not raised in any religion, I have attended religious services only through weddings and funerals. In those cases I knew the happy couple or the deceased: I felt I belonged there. I would feel very out of place at a church service, and I would feel like I was taking up space that someone who attended the church should be seated in.
>
>>> If I were in your situation, I would nicely explain to my relative that I am not comfortable attending the service, but will be happy to celebrate their holiday by joining them for dinner.I've done this, and now am just, unfortunately, going to have to politely put my foot down and be the bad guy so to speak.
>> I'm sorry you're feeling pressured, I hope you can work out something and not have to end the relationship with your family member.Thanks Poet...me too.
Posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 19:50:01
In reply to Re: Another thought... » TexasChic, posted by fayeroe on December 21, 2006, at 19:26:51
>>i agree with TexasChic and Poet. i really feel that it's unfair of a "friend" to put that kind of pressure upon you.........good luck, pat
Yeah, I think I have to agree also. I would never have (or keep) such a person as a friend, but unfortunately they are close family and have been always been supportive of me. Thanks for the pat...Peace...Saturn.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on December 21, 2006, at 19:54:00
In reply to Need advice on Christmas Eve, posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 15:38:54
If it were me, I think I'd go to the service.
Going to a service does not necessarily mean you have to agree with it. I have been to bar mitzvahs (sp?) and Jewish weddings, but I'm not Jewish. I thought of it as observing a cultural experience.
I would however, make it clear that in no way are you open to conversion, you are only going to support a relative. I do think it is reasonable for someone to want a close relative with him/her during what might be an emotional time. Maybe you are more special than the other people going? ;)
What are your specific hesitations about going? Do you worry that they will try to convert you? Will you have to do something other than just sit there?
Best,
EE
Posted by TexasChic on December 21, 2006, at 20:19:54
In reply to Re: Another thought... » fayeroe, posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 19:50:01
I hear you man. Relatives are the worst to stand up to. The guilt seems to be built in. But you're not obligated to do this person's will. Period.
I know where you're coming from, I was raised in a very religious household - my Dad was a preacher. I'm now an agnostic. It took awhile for some relatives (mainly my Mom) to realize I would not be swayed. Some people feel like its okay to be overbearing and manipulative if its about religion.
Now I'm not saying all religous people are like this, I'm just talking about this one particular type of person. I've met alot of religous people who respect the fact that I have my own beliefs. They show their beliefs through example. I have alot of respect for this. I hope I haven't offended anyone, I know this is a touchy subject. Please know I mean no ill intent.
-T
Posted by madeline on December 22, 2006, at 2:25:41
In reply to madeline, posted by saturn on December 21, 2006, at 19:30:58
I completely understand and do not feel dismissed at all. In fact, I'm glad you made up your mind - that in and of itself can be very freeing.
I truly hope your friend can manage to understand and respect your beliefs on this subject, but as other posters have indicated, if they can't it's their problem.
Peace to you too.
Maddie
Posted by saturn on December 22, 2006, at 18:59:00
In reply to Re: madeline, posted by madeline on December 22, 2006, at 2:25:41
Posted by saturn on December 24, 2006, at 13:55:20
In reply to Re: Need advice on Christmas Eve, posted by Emily Elizabeth on December 21, 2006, at 19:54:00
> If it were me, I think I'd go to the service.
>
> >Going to a service does not necessarily mean you have to agree with it. I have been to bar mitzvahs (sp?) and Jewish weddings, but I'm not Jewish. I thought of it as observing a cultural experience.You're right, but in this instance there is that implication.
> I would however, make it clear that in no way are you open to conversion, you are only going to support a relative. I do think it is reasonable for someone to want a close relative with him/her during what might be an emotional time. Maybe you are more special than the other people going? ;)Thanks...and yes I have made this clear, and I *am* special to this person...but they will have many other close and special relatives going with them.
>
>> What are your specific hesitations about going?I generally disagree with the principles and tenets of Christianity. I respect others' beliefs and generally keep mine to myself. Live and let live, so to speak.
>> Do you worry that they will try to convert you?
Not really.
>>Will you have to do something other than just sit there?
No-- I used to take my grandparents to holiday church services because they physically required my assistance. I just sat there and stuck out like a big thumb during all the singing, prayer, communtion...but I was happy to this because they literally required my assistance to attend.
Tonight I'm just gonna chill out. Happy Holidays :) Peace...Saturn.
This is the end of the thread.
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